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pre/during/post ride nutrition and Honey Stinger

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
Here's my list...

Pre -
Gu gel
Sportlegs

During -
Gu gel every 45mins - 1hr
24oz bottle of Accelerade (refil w/ water as needed)
24oz bottle of water w/ Elete (refill w/ water and Elete as needed)
Sportlegs if ride is over 2hrs

After -
24oz bottle of Clif recovery drink

Now question:
Is the mix of Elete, Accelerade, and Gu during the ride redundant or even counter-productive?

Basically, I'm out of Accelerade and Gu and need to replenish. If the Accelerade does nothing on top of the Gu and Elete, I won't bother with it.

Thinking about trying out Honey Stinger...any opinions on the stuff?
 

Jeff P.

Monkey
Nov 13, 2006
176
0
East Bay, Ca
What kind of riding are you doing? Seems like a lot of supplementing but i dont know what you are doing out there. The honey stinger stuff is awesome as far as i am concerned, it tastes good and the ingredient list is legible and short. That said i only use the gu-type, the bars, and recently tried the blocks (which are awesome). Not sure if they have a drink mix.

The accelerade and gu are a bit redundant i think, they are interchangeable if i remember correctly. The accelerade does have protein which is a slow fuel but there are differing schools of thought on protein during exercise.
 

Zagreus

Chimp
Jan 3, 2010
59
0
S. California
The accelerade and gu are definitely redundant-- my suggestion would be to preload with a high-carb and slow-digesting protein diet and regular creatine intake (though not during riding, this has actually been shown to negatively effect power and sustain in cyclists) and make your own gel/gu.


When I do 40+mi. days, especially if I am touring/have 20+lbs of gear, I tend to do the following: hearty grain-based meal (quinoa, usually) with 30+grams slow-digesting protein 45min-1hr prior to ride with a nice, sugary beverage (juice). After 1hr of riding I ingest a single dose of home-made gel (see below for recipe) and continue to do this every 1hr15min thereafter until the end of the ride. Usually I stop at a nice halfway point and consume a small amount (20g or so of quick-digesting protein and some sodium-packed carbohydrates [usually homemade kettle-chips]) of solid food for 10-15min. before continuing. By the end of the ride I usually have plenty of energy to get on with my day, set up camp, or whatever else I need to do. Obviously, hydration is super-crucial throughout all of this. I tend to consume at least 2.5 liters of water over a ride that size, which also makes a huge difference in terms of your body's ability to utilize protein.


Now, some notes on gels:
Most gels are very simple, and can be made at home for a fraction of the cost, in much larger quantities, and with personally tailored quantities of your active ingredients.

Basically, energy gel contains simple and complex sugars, branch-chain-amino-acids and electrolytes, sometimes with caffeine.

The BCAAs are a waste to consume mid-ride-- preloading with essential AAs and BCAAs prior to ride will help, and having them as a regular part of your diet will, as well. Some scientific evidence has shown that Alanine does have some effect on endurance and sprint-energy when consumed during exercise, but it is not hugely well-confirmed.

Caffeine can be good, but is really more effective in smaller doses than the gels usually have them in, and are WAY more effective in their natural context alongside other xanthines-- if you have the time or patience, do a non-polar solvent wash on some strong coffee and evaporate to be left with a solid mixture of good xanthines (I can post a tek on how to do this with homemade materials and solvents if it would be appropriate).


My personal recipe for a solid homemade gel is Agave Nectar (for fructose), Maltodextrin, Black-Strap Molasses (for Potassium and Magnesium, both very important for energy and endurance), a pinch of NaCl (table-salt, for sodium), a little Vanilla, and some coffee-based xanthine extract. It costs about 15% per-dose of a gu packet or hammer-gel packet and is just as effective, if not more. I only use one once very 1hr15min when I do 4-5hr ride-days. I can provide a more detailed recipe, if you would like.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Zagreus - if you could post that recipe more detailed, it'd be awesome.

To OP: Sounds expensive and a little needlessly complex, unless you're training 30+ hours a week.

My typical 2+ hour ride eating plan:

-Eat ~500 cal with approx 30g protein 30m or so before ride (generally whole grains+lean meat+some unsaturated fats)

-48oz water refilled as needed

-1-2h in I'll usually chew on a bar. I'm fond of the Clif protein bars. 270 cal with about 20g of protein.

-Post ride, within 30m eat another meal almost the same as the pre-ride, cept I usually thow a banana or two in on top for potassium.

I've always avoided gels during training because I feel like I need to keep shooting one every hour or so in order to avoid a crash.
 

Zagreus

Chimp
Jan 3, 2010
59
0
S. California
I've always avoided gels during training because I feel like I need to keep shooting one every hour or so in order to avoid a crash.
Yeah, I think this has a lot do with with the caffeine content. I have also noticed that a few of them include natural sources of Vinpocetine, which though very effective, has a half-life of something under 1hr. and works via cerebral vasodilation so the comedown/crash comes quick and hard-- not pleasant. I have found that a 10mg dose of Vinpocetine during the last 30min. sprint of my ride can be really effective if I have an NSAID and a lot of water to recover with before crashing.


Anywho, here is the recipe for my homemade gel.

5/8 cup Agave Nectar
1.25 tsp. blackstrap molasses
1/8 tsp. NaCl
2 tbsp. Maltodextrin (~40g)
2 tsp. Vanilla (or to taste)
Xanthine extract of ~6 cups of strong black-coffee
Add honey to thicken if it is too thin or add a small amount of water to thin it out if it is too thick

all amounts can be tailored to personal preference and a lot of fun can be had with flavoring-- personally I add a south-eastern Asian super-fruit extract to add some flavor and anti-oxidants

This recipe should result in 4-8 doses, depending on how much you like to consume-- too much or too little is not going to be dangerous, though do not consume when you are not exerting yourself, that can be bad for you.

Should I post a recipe for the Xanthines extract?
 
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LMC

Monkey
Dec 10, 2006
683
1
thanks for posting that Zagreus, im going to give it a try too.

How thick does the gel end up? and what sort of recepticle do you use to carry it with you?
 

Zagreus

Chimp
Jan 3, 2010
59
0
S. California
thanks for posting that Zagreus, im going to give it a try too.

How thick does the gel end up? and what sort of recepticle do you use to carry it with you?
The gel ends up at about the consistency of honey-- maybe a little thicker.

It takes a bit to get it to the right consistency for your preferences, but since everything is water-soluble you can easily add a tablespoon of water to thin the product out or alternatively add extra maltodextrin or some nice thick honey to thicken it up, if you should choose to.

I carry it in a plastic, squeezable shampoo container that I got at a camping store-- really anything with an opening about the size of a straw and a cap, plus the ability to squeeze will work just fine. For a while I had it in an amber-glass lab-style sample-vial, as that was the easiest thing to use, working in a lab-- not being able to squeeze it all out was a pain and ended up with me squirting water into the vial to dissolve and consume all of the gel that had stuck in the corners and on the sides.
 

LMC

Monkey
Dec 10, 2006
683
1
again, thanks for the info, i used to just mix a load of maltodextrin, salt, water and diluting juice and snack on fig rolls, but this sounds like a better option.

what is the Xanthines extract you mentioned?