[Old Man G Funk]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/01/AR2006030101731.html

So, who is right? Did Bush and Co. not do enough, even though they had the all kinds of warnings, or are the White House spokespeople right when they say Bush was fully engaged?

 

[N8 v2.0]

LOL!

Everyone knew that if NO ever got hit by a hurricane it was gonna be f*ckt... and it was... nothing anyone could really have done about that.

However, the majority of the blame for the screw-up lies on the Mayor of NO & our dumbass Governer here in La.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

LOL!

Everyone knew that if NO ever got hit by a hurricane it was gonna be f*ckt... and it was... nothing anyone could really have done about that.

However, the majority of the blame for the screw-up lies on the Mayor of NO & our dumbass Governer here in La.

1. Why does the blame lie with them?

2. Why did Bush say something along the lines of, "No one could have predicted what happened here," if we all knew they were "f*ckt"?

 

[fluff]

1. Why does the blame lie with them?

2. Why did Bush say something along the lines of, "No one could have predicted what happened here," if we all knew they were "f*ckt"?

More importantly, if N8 could have predicted it and Bush knew that then is he saying N8 is nobody?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Oh hell... it's a lot easier to just say it was "God's will" or "I blame Bush" dpending on your POV...

 

[fluff]

Oh hell... it's a lot easier to just say it was "God's will" or "I blame Bush" dpending on your POV...

Ain't that the same thing from your POV?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Oh hell... it's a lot easier to just say it was "God's will" or "I blame Bush" dpending on your POV...

I'm not looking for expediency. I'm looking answers. Your knee-jerk bring out the pompoms for Bush reaction is not at all enlightening.

I agree that the mayor and the governor share some blame here. The article specifically states that the governor dismissed that the levees had broken due to the reports being unsubstantiated. I don't blame her for not relaying unsubstantiated reports as fact, but perhaps she should have taken the safe route. The mayor certainly could have done more to proactively get people out of the city.

The fact remains that the FEMA response was inadequate. The Bush admin. "leaked" out erroneous information about when the gov. asked for help from the National Guard and one has to wonder why they would take that step. If Bush was hearing from people days before the storm that this was going to be a major disaster, why weren't people ready to go before the storm hit?

 

[N8 v2.0]

I'm not looking for expediency. I'm looking answers. Your knee-jerk bring out the pompoms for Bush reaction is not at all enlightening.

I agree that the mayor and the governor share some blame here. The article specifically states that the governor dismissed that the levees had broken due to the reports being unsubstantiated. I don't blame her for not relaying unsubstantiated reports as fact, but perhaps she should have taken the safe route. The mayor certainly could have done more to proactively get people out of the city.

The fact remains that the FEMA response was inadequate. The Bush admin. "leaked" out erroneous information about when the gov. asked for help from the National Guard and one has to wonder why they would take that step. If Bush was hearing from people days before the storm that this was going to be a major disaster, why weren't people ready to go before the storm hit?

What happend to the hundreds of millions of federal dollars that went to La and NO for the levee system/evacuation plans etc over the last... say 40 years.. to prevent this kind of thing from happening?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

What happend to the hundreds of millions of federal dollars that went to La and NO for the levee system/evacuation plans etc over the last... say 40 years.. to prevent this kind of thing from happening?

Certainly, the fact that planning and money were both on short order is not Bush's fault.

The fact that the city was not ready for this and was destroyed is not Bush's fault. That's something that has been lacking for many, many years, and if this storm had hit during Clinton's years, we'd be discussing what he could have done to protect NO.

I'm interested, however, in discussing what was done after the storm hit. A lot of people were left stranded, lost their lives, etc. Why didn't we have people ready? Why didn't we evacuate people more efficiently and sooner? If we don't figure this stuff out now, we are doomed to repeat the next time something like this happens.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Certainly, the fact that planning and money were both on short order is not Bush's fault.

The fact that the city was not ready for this and was destroyed is not Bush's fault. That's something that has been lacking for many, many years, and if this storm had hit during Clinton's years, we'd be discussing what he could have done to protect NO.

I'm interested, however, in discussing what was done after the storm hit. A lot of people were left stranded, lost their lives, etc. Why didn't we have people ready? Why didn't we evacuate people more efficiently and sooner? If we don't figure this stuff out now, we are doomed to repeat the next time something like this happens.

Well, the plan in NO was that there was a no plan for evacuating the ghettos. The locals have the first responder responsibility.. with the state backing them up. Our gov failed miserably... compare her inaction to the action of the Texas gov when Hurricane Rita was looking like it was going to hit Houston. Totally different.

 

[sanjuro]

LOL!

Everyone knew that if NO ever got hit by a hurricane it was gonna be f*ckt... and it was... nothing anyone could really have done about that.

However, the majority of the blame for the screw-up lies on the Mayor of NO & our dumbass Governer here in La.

And Bush and Brown are totally blameless!!!!!!!

 

[sanjuro]

Well, the plan in NO was that there was a no plan for evacuating the ghettos. The locals have the first responder responsibility.. with the state backing them up. Our gov failed miserably... compare her inaction to the action of the Texas gov when Hurricane Rita was looking like it was going to hit Houston. Totally different.

btw, i am going to work right now. be prepared in a hour to hear my response. shreveport might as well be a thousand miles away, and houston did about the same job as new orleans did...

 

[Old Man G Funk]

What happend to the hundreds of millions of federal dollars that went to La and NO for the levee system/evacuation plans etc over the last... say 40 years.. to prevent this kind of thing from happening?

N8,
Re-reading my earlier response to this, I don't want to give the impression that your question isn't an important one to ask. It is. Why did we (as a society) not do more to protect something that we knew was in danger for many years?

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Well, the plan in NO was that there was a no plan for evacuating the ghettos. The locals have the first responder responsibility.. with the state backing them up. Our gov failed miserably... compare her inaction to the action of the Texas gov when Hurricane Rita was looking like it was going to hit Houston. Totally different.

The evacuation planning was certainly faulty. The busses were not used to get people out, and the Superdome ended up being a disaster.

What about the fact that the federal government wasn't ready to go as soon as the storm passed? What about the fact that they weren't ready to go when the governor asked them to help, and then the White House tried to cover it up by smearing the governor?

Did the governor of Texas actually do more for Houston? Cars were sitting on the highways in complete gridlock as the storm approached. A system of using mass transport would have done the trick a lot better, which is exactly what Nagin was criticized for not doing. Why didn't Houston do it then?

 

[jimmydean]

I hate to admit it, but I agree with N8.

When I was there, we reviewed the plan for evacuation and it was a great plan. The problem is there was ZERO execution of that plan when the huricane hit.

The plan was to use city transportation to bus people out of the city to Baton Rouge. But days before, the city workers, including the cops, up and left by themselves, so there was nobody to drive the busses. Then when all hell broke loose, they scrambled to the dome that was never part of the plan and only made things worse.

There were plenty of busses, hell I drove 4 different ones while I was there. I say the execution of the plan was a failure of the city and state. That is what I saw when I was there.

<edit> I'll see if I can post pictures of my busses, it was fun to drive around with no traffic and no street lights to obey.

 

[ohio]

It was NO and LA's job to adequately warn it's citizen's, provide access to evacuation transport, and have an emergency response plan. They failed miserably.

It was FEMA's job to coordinate the emergency response. They failed miserably.

The local failures don't excuse the federal ones, and the federal ones don't excuse the local ones. We should be asking ourselves WHY each organization failed (in the case of FEMA it was because they were organizationally crippled by their incorporation into the Department of Homeland Security), and what needs to be done so they don't repeat those failures in the future.

 

[ohio]

I hate to admit it, but I agree with N8.

When I was there, we reviewed the plan for evacuation and it was a great plan. The problem is there was ZERO execution of that plan when the huricane hit.

Hmmm... in that case I take back my statement that the locals failed miserably. If they HAD a great plan, they were doing their job. It's FEMA's role to execute on that plan by coordinating the effort.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Hmmm... in that case I take back my statement that the locals failed miserably. If they HAD a great plan, they were doing their job. It's FEMA's role to execute on that plan by coordinating the effort.

Yes, blame bush.. it's soooo easy when they problems are far too difficult to think about.

 

[jimmydean]

Hmmm... in that case I take back my statement that the locals failed miserably. If they HAD a great plan, they were doing their job. It's FEMA's role to execute on that plan by coordinating the effort.

There was also a lot of people in the 9th Ward that had the "won't leave my home for nothing" attitude until they found themselves treading water. That might have been part of it. But based on the number of busses we had access to, it was clear there was little or no attempt at evacuation.

Our area of opperations was in the heart of the 9th ward. We didn't get there until Tuesday and the school we stayed in (Fredirick Douglas Senior High) had 2 feet of water around it when we go there.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Yes, blame bush.. it's soooo easy when they problems are far too difficult to think about.

Brown's failures don't necessarily denote Bush's failures. Please try to keep up.

 

[sanjuro]

Ray Nagin will be judged at election time.
Kathleen Blanco will be judged at election time.

We are judging Bush right now about Katrina.

1. The hurricane itself did not flood the city. The levees broke a day after the hurricane passed. Who was responsible for levee maintenance (US Army Corp of Engineers).
2. Of the 500,000 people living in New Orleans, 430,000 left successfully. The other 70,000, the poorest and the least capable, were not bussed out of town. BTW, where were they supposed to go? Who was supposed to set up housing for them? (FEMA)
3. What happened after the levees broke was totally on Bush and Brown.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Abraham Lincoln would have swooped in wearing a red cape held the levess from breaking. Hillary Clinton would have stuck her finger in the dike...
But bush, no way. How dare he not contact each and every bus driver to tell them to get the hell out of bed and start bussing people. How dare he let all those cops and bus drivers leave town like that.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Abraham Lincoln would have swooped in wearing a red cape held the levess from breaking. Hillary Clinton would have stuck her finger in the dike...
But bush, no way. How dare he not contact each and every bus driver to tell them to get the hell out of bed and start bussing people. How dare he let all those cops and bus drivers leave town like that.

Certainly there was a breakdown in communication if the bus drivers left town early and didn't take people with them. Let's not resort to red herrings though by invoking Hillary Clinton or Abraham Lincoln.

How much is this Bush? How much should he personally have done? Was it enough to leave it to his agency heads, as his spokesperson said he did (from the article)?

 

[sanjuro]

I think the reality is New Orleans is a f cked-up town. I wasn't surprised to see 70,000 people still left after the hurricane hit.

I also knew that the other Louisiana cities would not be opening their arms either. Hell, the Gretna police set up a roadblock on the bridge to New Orleans immediately after the hurricane.

 

[Changleen]

Did y'all watch the video? Bush just sat there like a chump. He promised that Federal help would be forthcoming, and then it wasn't. He was directly advised in pretty strong terms that the levees were likely to brake, and then after they did, he said "no-one could have predicted that the levees would break". He is a ****tard.

No matter the secondary failings of the local response, which was also lame, Bush, as the freakin' President, failed miserably at his job.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I think the reality is New Orleans is a f cked-up town. I wasn't surprised to see 70,000 people still left after the hurricane hit.

I also knew that the other Louisiana cities would not be opening their arms either. Hell, the Gretna police set up a roadblock on the bridge to New Orleans immediately after the hurricane.

You know damn good and well that you wouldn't want those f*kers in your city either....

 

[jimmydean]

Did y'all watch the video? Bush just sat there like a chump. He promised that Federal help would be forthcoming, and then it wasn't. He was directly advised in pretty strong terms that the levees were likely to brake, and then after they did, he said "no-one could have predicted that the levees would break". He is a ****tard.

No matter the secondary failings of the local response, which was also lame, Bush, as the freakin' President, failed miserably at his job.

It was no diiferent than the blank look he got when they told him "A PLANE FULL OF PEOPLE HIT A F@CKING BUILDING IN NY".

You should not be shocked by the "bush in the headlights" reaction.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Everyone should know that getting the federal government to do something 'speedy' is pretty much impossible. Its a huge bureaucracy that moves pretty slowly as well it should.

 

[Changleen]

Everyone should know that getting the federal government to do something 'speedy' is pretty much impossible. Its a huge bureaucracy that moves pretty slowly as well it should.

Except when they're looking after their own interests... getting re-elected for example.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Planning for relection starts 4 years in advance of the election.

 

[Transcend]

What happend to the hundreds of millions of federal dollars that went to La and NO for the levee system/evacuation plans etc over the last... say 40 years.. to prevent this kind of thing from happening?

Levee repair $$...that's choice. Did you know the federal gov't just denied funding to bring the levees up to cat 4/5 protection levels? So ya..even when they are fixed, if a huge storm hits again...they will fail.

That war in Iraq must be starting to pull at the purse strings a little huh?

 

[Transcend]

Everyone should know that getting the federal government to do something 'speedy' is pretty much impossible. Its a huge bureaucracy that moves pretty slowly as well it should.

Only Fema is supposed to avoid all the red tape and actually respond accordingly. Fast & effective being key, FEMA was neither.

 

[N8 v2.0]

what the f do you know canadianie???

 

[The Amish]

As bad as I feel for the people of No they should realy be thankful they had any notice or place to atempt to flee to at all. Im mean look at the philipines, one minute your sitting in your hut the next thing you no the whole island gets washed away, or a whole village gets covered in mud. Its a foolish person who builds his house upon the sand. What can you realy do when a disaster like that occurs but stand in disbelief and wonder. Humanity steped up and people did what they could, thats realy about all you can ask for in those situations. The notion the government can/should protect you from all harm, especialy natural disasters is obsurd. In the end the money will come, the city will be rebuilt and life will go on as always. If you dont want to take the risk of trying to survive a hurricane move to ohio or something

 

[Transcend]

what the f do you know canadianie???

Apprently much more then you.

 

[sanjuro]

As bad as I feel for the people of No they should realy be thankful they had any notice or place to atempt to flee to at all. Im mean look at the philipines, one minute your sitting in your hut the next thing you no the whole island gets washed away, or a whole village gets covered in mud. Its a foolish person who builds his house upon the sand. What can you realy do when a disaster like that occurs but stand in disbelief and wonder. Humanity steped up and people did what they could, thats realy about all you can ask for in those situations. The notion the government can/should protect you from all harm, especialy natural disasters is obsurd. In the end the money will come, the city will be rebuilt and life will go on as always. If you dont want to take the risk of trying to survive a hurricane move to ohio or something

Good point. I say withdraw federal road money from Western New York. They can plow the roads with their own trucks.

 

[The Amish]

IF you live in W. ny and cant drive in the snow someone should wack you in the head with a tack hammer because your are a retard. Managing snowy roads is a far cry from picking up the mess caused by a category 5 hurricane

 

[Transcend]

As bad as I feel for the people of No they should realy be thankful they had any notice or place to atempt to flee to at all. Im mean look at the philipines, one minute your sitting in your hut the next thing you no the whole island gets washed away, or a whole village gets covered in mud. Its a foolish person who builds his house upon the sand. What can you realy do when a disaster like that occurs but stand in disbelief and wonder. Humanity steped up and people did what they could, thats realy about all you can ask for in those situations. The notion the government can/should protect you from all harm, especialy natural disasters is obsurd. In the end the money will come, the city will be rebuilt and life will go on as always. If you dont want to take the risk of trying to survive a hurricane move to ohio or something

There is absolutely no question about that. At least they had some sort of warning to prepare...but how do you honestly prepare for a cat 5 hurricane?

My bet is that most of them "prepared" by getting ready for FEMA to arrive.

My opinion is that in something this big, so much bigger then any one person, the gov't really has to step up. They have to have a relief plan in place.

How long ago was the Tidal wave? Just over a year now right? We are coming on 6 months for Katrina and it honestly doesn't look like they will be as far along with reconstruction as some of the tsunami ravaged places are. That's pretty bad for the world's sole remaining superpower with way more resources then the philippines et al.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Humanity steped up and people did what they could, thats realy about all you can ask for in those situations. The notion the government can/should protect you from all harm, especialy natural disasters is obsurd.

But, did they really do all they could? Bush and Brown knew well in advance that the storm was coming. They had experts telling them how bad it would be, how much damage would be caused, etc. Yet, the effort was found wanting. Then, they tried to lie to the public about the depth of their knowledge as well as smear the governor with lies about her response time.

No one is saying that the government should protect one from all harm, and the government can't stop a hurricane from happening, but they can certainly alleviate the damage done and the aftermath, and that was NOT done.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Here's a follow-on story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/02/AR2006030202130.html