can i use the household oven for re-heat treating?
Prefabrication help?
- Thread starter Orvan
- Start date
the simple answer:
NO
If you want a detailed explanation of why not, PM me.
NO
If you want a detailed explanation of why not, PM me.
but my oven can get as high as 750 degrees.....
um does your oven have a digital thermometer readout, and really precise temp control, and a timer interfaced with the thermostat... 'cause if not you're going to spend an awful lot of time sitting in front of your oven, staring at the thermometer, and gently adjusting the nob.
I also don't know if that's hot enough... might be.
Talk to a machine shop and see if they'll throw it in with a batch of some other stuff.
:devil:
I think you'll spend more money on energy than its worth. Your talking 12-24 hours of slowely lowering the temp or something like that.
:dancing:
Heat treating is actually comprised of two components, one being where you harden the metal, aligning the crystaline grain of it, and the other being where you temper it to reduce it's brittleness.
The first step is to get the metal to its critical temperature, steel ceases to be magnetic at that temp, (for tool steel this is around 1500deg). This phenomenon is called the "Curie Point" after the discoverer, Pierre. When the metal is at this point it must be quickly quenched (oil/water).
How to get the blade to the Curie point is probably the biggest problem for the DIYer. When the metal is glowing red, the carbon behaves as if it's in a liquid and can therefore migrate around as it pleases. This is necessary for the hardening to occur but near the surface of the metal those carbon atoms are drawn out by Oxygen atoms (which have a HIGH affinity/attraction to other atoms...esp. Carbon) and they're lost then forever. In order to prevent this, the metal must be heated in an inert (oxygen free atmosphere) and/or limit the time at red-heat (in air) to as little as possible. A torch makes both of those very difficult.
So after you have hardened the metal it will now be extremely brittle which is also not desireable. This is done by slowly heating and cooling the metal, to a specific temperature, for tool steel that is 325deg. farenheit. This softens the metal and makes it less brittle and therefore much more durable and ultimately stronger. This could be done in an oven if you had a pyrometer to precisely measure the temp of the metal, (of note here alloys have different tempering temperatures, I don't know what metal alloy you are thinking of heat treating).
The reason why the temp must be so precise, is that if you exceed it the metal will become very soft, and if you do ot reach it, the metal will remain brittle.
Also of note, every time you re-heat the metal it becomes softer and more plastic in nature (plastic as in the plastic region on it's stress/strain graph grows larger). So you CANNOT simply "re-heat treat" a component, by heating it to it's tempering threshhold...this will ONLY result in a sorter final unit.
THE WHOLE PROCESS MUST BE REPEATED IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THE METAL STRONGER.
This process will also result in the destruction of ANY surface finish on the component.
If the component you are talking about is made of an aluminum alloy the process is very different from this as aluminum alloys are surface hardened.
I hope that helps. and like all of my statements I will add the disclaimer (for all of you out there with engineering degrees, or who happen to have a PhD in Metallurgy) that this is the most basic of descriptions, and does NOT cover the vast array of different metals used in your bike..
The first step is to get the metal to its critical temperature, steel ceases to be magnetic at that temp, (for tool steel this is around 1500deg). This phenomenon is called the "Curie Point" after the discoverer, Pierre. When the metal is at this point it must be quickly quenched (oil/water).
How to get the blade to the Curie point is probably the biggest problem for the DIYer. When the metal is glowing red, the carbon behaves as if it's in a liquid and can therefore migrate around as it pleases. This is necessary for the hardening to occur but near the surface of the metal those carbon atoms are drawn out by Oxygen atoms (which have a HIGH affinity/attraction to other atoms...esp. Carbon) and they're lost then forever. In order to prevent this, the metal must be heated in an inert (oxygen free atmosphere) and/or limit the time at red-heat (in air) to as little as possible. A torch makes both of those very difficult.
So after you have hardened the metal it will now be extremely brittle which is also not desireable. This is done by slowly heating and cooling the metal, to a specific temperature, for tool steel that is 325deg. farenheit. This softens the metal and makes it less brittle and therefore much more durable and ultimately stronger. This could be done in an oven if you had a pyrometer to precisely measure the temp of the metal, (of note here alloys have different tempering temperatures, I don't know what metal alloy you are thinking of heat treating).
The reason why the temp must be so precise, is that if you exceed it the metal will become very soft, and if you do ot reach it, the metal will remain brittle.
Also of note, every time you re-heat the metal it becomes softer and more plastic in nature (plastic as in the plastic region on it's stress/strain graph grows larger). So you CANNOT simply "re-heat treat" a component, by heating it to it's tempering threshhold...this will ONLY result in a sorter final unit.
THE WHOLE PROCESS MUST BE REPEATED IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THE METAL STRONGER.
This process will also result in the destruction of ANY surface finish on the component.
If the component you are talking about is made of an aluminum alloy the process is very different from this as aluminum alloys are surface hardened.
I hope that helps. and like all of my statements I will add the disclaimer (for all of you out there with engineering degrees, or who happen to have a PhD in Metallurgy) that this is the most basic of descriptions, and does NOT cover the vast array of different metals used in your bike..
so in essence, can I buy tons of close out cheapo household aluminum foil and melt them to form a solid aluminum billet too? Then after forging that , do I need to re-heat treat it? even if no welding was done...
when are you going to add the other metals into it (magnesium and steel/iron?) to turn it into a useable alu alloy? :devil:
good question.. what's the recipe for a 6061 grade alloy? I need the measuring cup units for individual metal. :devil:
Get a copy of the Machinery's Handbook (correct title). We refer to it as the Machinist's Handbook in the industry. It is pretty much the standard reference book for everyone from engineers to machinists. All old time machinists grew up on this book. It will tell you what you need to know about the chemical composition of SAE steels, non ferrous alloys, titanium alloys, etc... . It also explains heat treatment of metals. Starting your own metal foundry at home is a losing proposition and a potentially dangerous one too. Magnesium is an alloying element used in aluminum, and I can just see the fireworks display going off in your garage.
Hey I can't see those fireworks??
have you started yet Orven??
well, what are you waiting for, c'mon, DO IT!!!
I think that you should also try using that toaster oven that is hiding in the cupboard as an autoclave and start building your own carbon parts....SAAAAWEEEEEEETTT!!!
(and don't forget to use it to restore those oil soaked brake pads.......)
have you started yet Orven??
well, what are you waiting for, c'mon, DO IT!!!
I think that you should also try using that toaster oven that is hiding in the cupboard as an autoclave and start building your own carbon parts....SAAAAWEEEEEEETTT!!!
(and don't forget to use it to restore those oil soaked brake pads.......)
I use milk of magnesia for that and some epsom salt...
what alloy grade are soda cans...might be useful cuz I have a lot of them in the kitchen..
:devil:
so can I use aluminum soda cans for my aluminum billet foundation/raw material.. I'm shooting to make a 6061 alloy grade for the linkages and rear end swingarm and I'm still contemplating on the main triangle composite..whehter it be a carbon composite or thermoplastic. I think I'd go with a ghetto version of termo plastic and use empty plactic milk jugs.. weaved onto a landscaping net....
I like the Canadian beer can alloys better actually...I find that when you make links from them you always "Finish cold and clean with no aftertaste." and isn't that the best wayto finish anyways?
I wanted really light wheels so I laced them with fishing line..
the only problem I now have is that I am always finding tuna stuck in my spokes????
I wanted really light wheels so I laced them with fishing line..
the only problem I now have is that I am always finding tuna stuck in my spokes????
dude, that's nothing new. Spinergy's using that innovation on their Spox wheels already...
I sense that you're mocking me:angry: :devil:
I made a whole bike out of that elmers 200lb epoxy. It's kinda heavy, but holds up real well when I ride my fat-ass buddy on my handlebars. (it's also a cool clear see-thru color)
I wuz thinking of the same concept...but with a wood cement and finish it with enamel for the clea coating...but I can't imagine pedalling a 50 lbs bike at all..and smelling like varnish..
Depends on the alloy. IF you're working with 7005 aluminum, you (in ideal situations) could. If you're working with 6061 aluminum, no.
Are you mocking me????:angry:
I was two Chemistry credits away from my Metallurgy (sp) Degree.. Me, Cheech and Chong got abit too creative at the chem lab mixing stuff that were legally questionable..hence, i failed..
Grade 4 was the longest 5 years of my life.
Damn them damn those Dirty Spinergy guys!
Damn them all to hell!!
Damn them damn those Dirty Spinergy guys!
Damn them all to hell!!
huh? you sniff glue......Originally posted by Toshi
Who are you calling fat?
I dunno.. Nike, in its inception, used waffle irons to cast the rubber sole on their running shoes.. So in essence, it's a patented manufacturing process. Maybe the George Foreman grill cooker?? No?
you stay away form my handlebars!! I'm having enough trouble with my fork without adding an extra 160lb to the front endOriginally posted by Toshi
Who are you calling fat?