[BurlyShirley]

Privately Owned Fisheries May Help Shore Up Stocks

Giving people ownership rights in marine fisheries can halt or even reverse catastrophic declines in commercial stocks, researchers in California and Hawaii are reporting.
The idea goes against the grain among people who believe that anyone with grit and skill should be able to get in a boat, put to sea and make a living fishing. But that approach, even with licensing requirements and other restrictions, has produced fishing efforts so intense that by some estimates, the world’s commercial stocks will collapse in a few decades.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/science/19fish.html?ref=environment


Worst idea ever? F*ck the little guy...

 

[stosh]

Did you catch the TV show last night about what Manhattan used to be like when settlers first arrived?

It was awesome and they talked about how there was whales and various other fish in NY harbor at one time. As hard as I try I can not image what it must have been like having clean water and no garbage in NY harbor with and abundance of fish.

The migratory birds alone would have been something to behold. We've ruined this world!

Everybody should be like me and not eat fish then the worlds oceans would be teeming with life.

Edit:
Just found this.
http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=365344

http://www.wcs.org/mannahatta

 

[syadasti]

Did you catch the TV show last night about what Manhattan used to be like when settlers first arrived?

It was awesome and they talked about how there was whales and various other fish in NY harbor at one time. As hard as I try I can not image what it must have been like having clean water and no garbage in NY harbor with and abundance of fish.

We've had families of dolphins living in our waterways for months now. One pod just left:

http://www.wnbc.com/news/17538057/detail.html

 

[jimmydean]

As hard as I try I can not image what it must have been like having clean water and no garbage in NY harbor with and abundance of fish.

The tap water is delicious!

:barf:

 

[BurlyShirley]

Did you catch the TV show last night about what Manhattan used to be like when settlers first arrived?

It was awesome and they talked about how there was whales and various other fish in NY harbor at one time. As hard as I try I can not image what it must have been like having clean water and no garbage in NY harbor with and abundance of fish.

The migratory birds alone would have been something to behold. We've ruined this world!

Everybody should be like me and not eat fish then the worlds oceans would be teeming with life.

Edit:
Just found this.
http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=365344

http://www.wcs.org/mannahatta

The biota of North America is just a shadow of what it used to be before "discovery" by europeans.... which is why it's amazing to me that somehow many people are STILL opposing conservation measures. I just read recently that very the middle of Yellowstone NP is the only place in the lower 48 where you can be more than 20 miles from a road... and you can just barely do it there.

Syadisti, I meant to tell you that I've been looking more seriously at Cornell recently. Already have a nice master's position sewn up here locally that I start in May, but in 2 years, if they have a Phd. position with a decent stipend I would like to apply there. Thing is I got a 1200 something on my GRE which is good enough for most places, but not sure about Cornell.. can't find anything concrete on their site.

 

[syadasti]

BS - I will PM you one of my advisors. He is a fisheries stat man.

 

[jimmydean]

I just read recently that very the middle of Yellowstone NP is the only place in the lower 48 where you can be more than 20 miles from a road... and you can just barely do it there.

There is a spot not too far from here, but it's rare.

The Last Quiet Place

In Washington's Olympic Peninsula lies One Square Inch of Silence, a rare spot completely removed from human sound.

Now think: Have you ever in your life not been able to hear a man-made sound for, say, fifteen minutes? Probably not, according to Gordon Hempton, a self-described "acoustic ecologist." He records those soothing sounds-of-nature CDs and has become an expert on what he defines as silent places, where you can experience regular intervals of at least fifteen minutes during which no man-made sounds can be heard. In 1984, he knew of twenty-one such spots in Washington state alone. Today there are just three, and fewer than a dozen in the whole lower forty-eight.

Hempton is trying to save what's left. In the Hoh rain forest, on Washington's Olympic Peninsula, he has established a landmark he's calling One Square Inch of Silence. A small red rock on a mossy log marks the spot -- located at 47°51.959' N, 123°52.221' W -- where, on a still day, ambient noise can be as low as 23.5 decibels, the volume of a pine nut dropping onto damp moss twenty feet away. Human influence is virtually nil; after an impassioned campaign by Hempton, several airlines have even agreed to minimize flying over the area. But without a firm federal commitment to the protection of silent places, Hempton worries that the remaining ones will soon disappear. His logic is that preserving a tiny spot will also protect many square miles around it. Plus, he believes that silence preserves human sanity. Animals, he points out, only relax when it's quiet enough to hear enemies approaching.

Sad, but true.

 

[ohio]

The way I understand it, it's not a privatization that would cut out the little guy, because you would buy into shares in the fishery. One company wouldn't be able to purchase exclusive fishing rights (like say we do with logging and mining... argh) unless they bought every available share, in which case I think there would be anti-trust issues. People already buy licenses... it's not like you can just go out and fish for free.

It has worked extremely well for the Alaskan salmon fishery, and there are still plenty of one-boat operations up there.

 

[MMike]

The way I understand it, it's not a privatization that would cut out the little guy, because you would buy into shares in the fishery. People already buy licenses... it;'s not like you can just go out and fish for free.

It has worked extremely well for the Alaskan salmon fishery, and there are still plenty of one-boat operations up there.

They had a thing about this on NPR last week I think. It seemed to make sense to me. They used a Dungeoness crab example. It would make it a far less hazardous career....it would no longer be a race.....which I guess would be bad for the Discovery Channel.

 

[stevew]

we need a trail to that spot.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The Hoh is one of the most b-e-a-utiful places.

 

[Arkayne]

we need a trail to that spot.

Here, I'll help you imagine what it'll look like

 

[syadasti]

Oh crap...

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-11/122231688445020.xml&coll=1

 

[Westy]

The biota of North America is just a shadow of what it used to be before "discovery" by europeans.... which is why it's amazing to me that somehow many people are STILL opposing conservation measures. I just read recently that very the middle of Yellowstone NP is the only place in the lower 48 where you can be more than 20 miles from a road... and you can just barely do it there.

Ever fly across the country with a window seat? Not only are there roads everywhere but it seems that pretty much every square inch of this country is being put to use for something. There seem to be some wide open places in West Virginia but they are probably owned by coal companies.

 

[$tinkle]

Ever fly across the country with a window seat? Not only are there roads everywhere but it seems that pretty much every square inch of this country is being put to use for something. There seem to be some wide open places in West Virginia but they are probably owned by coal companies.

eastern seaboard perhaps, but out west? not so much. the wide-openness is more prevalent an hour or so after sunset, when people are still milling about. f'rinstance: i think it's 90% of CO's state pop is within 20 mi of either interstate, with the other 10% being scattered.

can't imagine how spread out AK is

 

[Westy]

eastern seaboard perhaps, but out west? not so much. the wide-openness is more prevalent an hour or so after sunset, when people are still milling about. f'rinstance: i think it's 90% of CO's state pop is within 20 mi of either interstate, with the other 10% being scattered.

can't imagine how spread out AK is

I'm really talking about the prevalence of people but the fact that little is truly wild. Like Burly referenced, roads everywhere. doesn't matter if there is someone on them or not. Going through Montana you can be in spots where you can see almost a hundred miles in every direction and not see a single building, but you can drive to just about any point. Alaska is a different story.

 

[valve bouncer]

eastern seaboard perhaps, but out west? not so much. the wide-openness is more prevalent an hour or so after sunset, when people are still milling about. f'rinstance: i think it's 90% of CO's state pop is within 20 mi of either interstate, with the other 10% being scattered.

can't imagine how spread out AK is

Fly over Northern Australia sometime. Miles and miles and miles of absolutely f*cking nothing. Russia is the same, I was spellbound flying over Siberia.

 

[DaveW]

Fly over Northern Australia sometime. Miles and miles and miles of absolutely f*cking nothing. Russia is the same, I was spellbound flying over Siberia.

Siberia is cool to fly over.... heaps to look at, but f*ck me Aussie is dull to fly over the outback. There is literally nothing there to look at and it takes ages to fly over it.

I was spellbound flying over Siberia.

Shall I take that as meaning "nicely tranquilized"? :beerjam:

 

[valve bouncer]

Shall I take that as meaning "nicely tranquilized"? :beerjam:

Is there any other way to fly?

 

[DaveW]

Go see the 2nd to last post in my thread in the euro riding forum.

 

[valve bouncer]

Go see the 2nd to last post in my thread in the euro riding forum.

That half day before you get on the plane to go home sucks. Marinade thyself my Kiwi brother, drink it all down.

 

[ohio]

Alaska really is the last frontier. Burly, you'd love it if you haven't been there. There're still homesteaders. You can get in a boat, land it wherever you want, sleep wherever you want, fish wherever you want (if you're a citizen), no permits, no rules. It's really an amazing contrast to the lower 48 where you can getto similar beauty in a few national parks, but you're surrounded by people and regulations and zoning.

I only spent a month in kachemak bay, but after that I can certainly understand the allure to the sierra club of maintaining wilderness areas untouched by man.

 

[DaveW]

The 7.9% Salvador hads been opened.... and mein carridge awaists.
Catch you all when I get back.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Alaska really is the last frontier. Burly, you'd love it if you haven't been there. There're still homesteaders. You can get in a boat, land it wherever you want, sleep wherever you want, fish wherever you want (if you're a citizen), no permits, no rules. It's really an amazing contrast to the lower 48 where you can getto similar beauty in a few national parks, but you're surrounded by people and regulations and zoning.

I only spent a month in kachemak bay, but after that I can certainly understand the allure to the sierra club of maintaining wilderness areas untouched by man.

Alaska: Where you can shoot a 5pt. buck on a jetski, strap it to the bow, and roll into the harbor and no one bats an eye.


(True story.)

 

[BurlyShirley]

Alaska really is the last frontier. Burly, you'd love it if you haven't been there. There're still homesteaders. You can get in a boat, land it wherever you want, sleep wherever you want, fish wherever you want (if you're a citizen), no permits, no rules. It's really an amazing contrast to the lower 48 where you can getto similar beauty in a few national parks, but you're surrounded by people and regulations and zoning.

I only spent a month in kachemak bay, but after that I can certainly understand the allure to the sierra club of maintaining wilderness areas untouched by man.

I had an opportunity to go up there and work as a government observer on some of those commercial fishing vessels, you know "deadliest catch" style, but opted to start grad school in this may. Haven't been up there at all, but will go when the time is right, and there are a lot of jobs up there. Sure would be nice to buy up a bunch of land, build a cabin in the middle of it and snowmobile to work half the year.
Not sure what people who work with freshwater fish do for most of the year though...