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Privee Shan Nº5

Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
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dump said:
Well hello there! Remember the part about how I asked you to self-identify and exit this thread... this is not for you? I see you're still here.
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We're always going to hear +/- for any product, it's what makes forums more fun than reading "reviews" where everything is perfect. I don't think either @manhattanprjkt83 and @dcamp29 were out of line, the listed weight of 3890g is really high for an enduro frame, and for most that's an important number to know. The average weight range for enduro frames is ~2700-3400g without shock, and there are some durable options even at the low end of that scale. That's not to say good frames don't exist outside that range, they just become harder to justify and pointing that out is fair.

@dcamp29 in particular has made his own steel frames from memory, so personally I applaud his commentary on weight - only because there's a strong trend towards people who make/sell/distribute heavier products justifying why weight is less important.

If you care at all about complete bike weight (which most do), running a lighter frame while still hitting your required durability/geo/stiffness targets means you can "spend" more weight on better suspension/brakes/tires.

For the "steel is real" crew, I'd suggest holding the wallets until dark owl's enduro is released.
 
troy

troy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
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StiHacka said:
This could be an interesting winter bike:
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I don't think that a clearcoated steel frame is the best idea for winter conditions or any other weather conditions actually... It looks nice just for the first couple of weeks/months.
 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
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if you like that look, you can do what I did and powdercoat it a silver that looks close. I went with porsche wheel silver for the 29r frame i built.
 
T

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,636
640
dump said:
Well hello there! Remember the part about how I asked you to self-identify and exit this thread... this is not for you? I see you're still here. Who wants to ride an 8lb frame you ask? Clearly some in this thread find it interesting. There's plenty of room for ideas that stray from the mainstream. In fact that's where some of the most interesting things are happening.
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I love that your telling Dave Camp, builder of some completely outrageous bikes, where interesting things in bikes are happening.
 
dump

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,456
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trib said:
I love that your telling Dave Camp, builder of some completely outrageous bikes, where interesting things in bikes are happening.
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Dave Camp's bikes aren't news to me... and are completely off axis from what's being discussed here.
 
dump

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,456
5,082
Udi said:
...
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"You know what else? The bike is yellow! Yellow's not a good color for bikes. In fact, who would want a yellow bike? I know because I once had a yellow bike. I even painted it yellow myself. Right now I ride a bike with a yellow primer, but I put black paint over it, so it's acceptable to my immediate social group. Yellow looks ok if you paint your bike yellow in your garage or whatever, but to pay $1800 for a yellow bike? Only old curmudgeons like yellow bikes."
 
Happymtb.fr

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
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SWE
Why is there so many single pivot trail bikes with flatish leverage curves (Orange, Starling, Production Privée, ...) and so few, if any, with more progression like GG did on their DH?
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,790
7,047
borcester rhymes
why does every single pivot 29er brand have to make chainstays that start at 17.5" and grow from there? I know the defenders of the chainstay will holler, but short stays are crucial to well handling big wheeled bikes.

personally I really like the btr pinner, but they don't make it in flexy size...yet.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,918
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Happymtb.fr said:
Why is there so many single pivot trail bikes with flatish leverage curves (Orange, Starling, Production Privée, ...)
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Why are there so many multi-pivot trail bikes with digression at the start of the LR curve?

Same answer. :)
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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borcester rhymes
that's true. once you're into "custom low production volume frame" I feel like you have to move past the weight on a cromo frame. It's on the high-throughput stuff, like the PP Shan, that I don't get as much.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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troy said:
I don't think that a clearcoated steel frame is the best idea for winter conditions or any other weather conditions actually... It looks nice just for the first couple of weeks/months.
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clear coat done right is awesome, but the prep before coating is crucial. My S&M LTF has a bunch of imperfections under the coating, but they haven't changed in all the years since it was built because the coating was done right. frame was also discounted because of the blemishes.
 
FlipSide

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,432
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troy said:
I don't think that a clearcoated steel frame is the best idea for winter conditions or any other weather conditions actually... It looks nice just for the first couple of weeks/months.
Click to expand...
Off-topic question, but related to your post: I have a translucent red BMX I bought last year (Standard 125R). Is it the same as a clearcoat (but colored) and rust should be expected to come out through the finish...or is it a different process that should be more durable than a clear coat? Thanks!
 
mtg

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
Happymtb.fr said:
Why is there so many single pivot trail bikes with flatish leverage curves (Orange, Starling, Production Privée, ...) and so few, if any, with more progression like GG did on their DH?
Click to expand...
I can't speak for the others, but getting a GG/DH style leverage curve on a non-linkage driven single pivot frame is more difficult than a flat-ish leverage curve. For example, it's convenient to put the shock between the seat tube and downtube, roughly in a horizontal layout, and that makes a roughly flat leverage graph.
That's why the GG/DH has the shock going through the "seat tube".
 
troy

troy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
1,026
785
FlipSide said:
Off-topic question, but related to your post: I have a translucent red BMX I bought last year (Standard 125R). Is it the same as a clearcoat (but colored) and rust should be expected to come out through the finish...or is it a different process that should be more durable than a clear coat? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Colored clearcoat should be a little bit more robust but it will rust sooner or later. Like @jonKranked said, it is super important to correctly prep the frame before coating, as any moisture or imperfections will speed up this process. Clearcoats are designed to stick to a primer or other paint, not bare metal and doesn't have the additives that the regular paint does. Here is what happens to a clearcoated tubes after some time.
 
mtg

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
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Denver, CO
Isn't that from Swarf Cycles? ^^^

I've looked into that as well, and the answer is that traditional clear coats aren't designed to go straight onto metal directly. But there are clear finishes that are designed for that.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,918
1,213
mtg said:
Isn't that from Swarf Cycles? ^^^
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Off topic but they make some really cool bikes I reckon.
I was thinking of it when this thread popped up but always forget the name.

Carbon rear / steel front for anyone who hasn't seen it, even comes in yellow for @dump :)


 
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troy

troy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
1,026
785
mtg said:
Isn't that from Swarf Cycles? ^^^

I've looked into that as well, and the answer is that traditional clear coats aren't designed to go straight onto metal directly. But there are clear finishes that are designed for that.
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Yup, that's Swarf.

Of course there are clear coats designed to go on bare metals, they have an "indoor use only" label tho. If You know any that can be used outside I would love to know which one is it :cheers:
 
mtg

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,862
1,604
Denver, CO
I think that was his original full suspension bike. These days he seems to have gone away from carbon. But yeah, his stuff is pretty cool.
 
blindboxx2334

blindboxx2334

Turbo Monkey
Mar 19, 2013
1,340
101
Wets Coast
jonKranked said:
clear coat done right is awesome, but the prep before coating is crucial. My S&M LTF has a bunch of imperfections under the coating, but they haven't changed in all the years since it was built because the coating was done right. frame was also discounted because of the blemishes.
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bolded part is so true. a local bmx company (solid bmx), was YYUUUUUGEE on trans red frames and I saw a couple start to rust underneath the trans coating on a couple of kids bike a while ago. im going to assume it wasn't properly cleaned, and had some sort of oil/dirt/residue on it while it was sealed up. a lot of the kids didn't take care of their bikes, so im going to assume a couple of scratches led to the stringy rust pictured above.

weren't the LTF's zink coated? i know some S&M light frames were zink coated (lighter than paint or powder). i had a black one, it slowly turned green due to the sun.


edit:
now that i think about it more, that 'stringy rust' reminds me of ebola or some shit. terrible to think, but i think it looks sort of cool.
 
4130biker

4130biker

PM me about Tantrum Cycles!
May 24, 2007
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Even if the clear is good initially, any chips will allow water to do that little rust or corrosion-spiderweb mess.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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blindboxx2334 said:
bolded part is so true. a local bmx company (solid bmx), was YYUUUUUGEE on trans red frames and I saw a couple start to rust underneath the trans coating on a couple of kids bike a while ago. im going to assume it wasn't properly cleaned, and had some sort of oil/dirt/residue on it while it was sealed up. a lot of the kids didn't take care of their bikes, so im going to assume a couple of scratches led to the stringy rust pictured above.

weren't the LTF's zink coated? i know some S&M light frames were zink coated (lighter than paint or powder). i had a black one, it slowly turned green due to the sun.


edit:
now that i think about it more, that 'stringy rust' reminds me of ebola or some shit. terrible to think, but i think it looks sort of cool.
Click to expand...
Dunno if it was the zinc stuff, but it's hasn't discolored any and is getting up there in age.

Clear powder coat is apparently a thing, but from what I've read difficult to do without slight discoloration / cloudiness
 
Happymtb.fr

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
2,066
1,438
SWE
mtg said:
I can't speak for the others, but getting a GG/DH style leverage curve on a non-linkage driven single pivot frame is more difficult than a flat-ish leverage curve. For example, it's convenient to put the shock between the seat tube and downtube, roughly in a horizontal layout, and that makes a roughly flat leverage graph.
That's why the GG/DH has the shock going through the "seat tube".
Click to expand...
Yes, the flat-ish leverage curve usually gives a neat design but I would have liked some clever frame designer to find a way around it and make a progressive non-linkage driven single pivot frame. But I understand that having the shock through the seat tube is not an option on a trail bike where you need room for the dropper post...

The ICB 2.0 is slightly progressive (http://linkagedesign.blogspot.se/2014/11/alutech-icb20-prototype.html) and available in steel as well by Portus Cycles (3,1kg without rear shock according to the internet...)
 
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