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Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by Toshi, Sep 7, 2008.
what's the "pro-life" stance on ectopic pregnancies?
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my ex wife had an ectopic and it almost killed her.
i think this generally falls in the category of safety of the mother.
so, i'd say i'd support that position.
and yours would be?
If God put it in the fallopian tube, that's where he meant it to be. Who are we to interfere with God's glorious plan for the death of the mother? If she didn't want an ectopic pregnancy, the whore could have kept her legs shut.
I realize this is sarcasm and all, but do you honestly think any sane christian would think this way?
My wife had an ectopic pregnancy...unfortunately we didn't know that until after she had been in some pain for a couple weeks. She never bled extrenally, thankfully, but her surgeon said that the blood clot was about a unit of blood and a twisted mess. They had to remove the tube and ovary as well.
Had we had known that her pregnancy was ectopic before her emergency surgery we would have ended it no question about it.
No, because I don't think Christians are totally sane.
You call it a blood clot, a pro-life Christian calls it a fully formed human being. God, being all powerful and all knowing put it there. According to them, you sacrificed a human being to save your wife.
I personally think that is totally ****ing crazy. People who are anti-abortion, if they are being intellectually honest, consider that reality. Don't shoot the messenger...
my vows are to my wife.
flush the poor bastard. would have roughed him up anyway.
what makes, say, a 1st trimester ectopic pregnancy any less or more of a human than that same fetus implanted in the uterus? neither has a sliver of a chance of surviving outside the mother, so why should they be viewed differently by teh jeebus?
from a biblical pov, a "pro-life" position is entirely consistent to protect the life of the unborn after fulfilling your vows to protect the life of your wife. of course, the sticky wicket for me is a severely sick child requiring life-long care. i simply won't take a position on this.
i'd like for victims of rape & incest to go the distance & give up for adoption (or even keep - i know of one woman who has & doesn't have a regret), but i would never mandate it. these 2 are also in a gray area for me, as i also find the exception to permit [sorry, can't find a better word, but i know it's out there] abortion "for the sake of the woman's health" could include mental health, which i find to be a cop out.
to be as realistic as possible, people like me have to understand others don't hold the same value system, and one of the worst things we can do is attempt to foist it upon others. not the best way to win members to the clubhouse.
back in the day, i had the very convenient pleasure of knowing a catholic girl who wouldn't use protection b/c every sperm is sacred. there was a slight intellectual disconnect that we weren't married, but i let her slide on that. who am i to judge?
thank you, stink. I don't have a snide or sarcastic reply to a post like that. I wish someone were willing to state it into a microphone in such clear terms, slippery slopes be damned.
conversely, I would also like a pro-choicer to cast off their fears of the slope and admit that the 3rd trimester fetus probably is a real life (with the first hints of human consciousness) and it makes them intensely uncomfortable to allow abortions at that stage. No that that would be any different than R v W, but it seems everyone has forgotten the specifics of that in favor of arguing the pure ideologies, which only salts the (axe) wound.
where did she stand (sit) on the butt?
I believe I posted a link which touched on that the other day...
The problem is that if you take such a position in the middle, you get vilified by both sides. Pro-life people will generally call you a Nazi and a murderer, while the feminists will scream that you're a misogynist. So, no one takes the correct position in the middle, and politicians especially get pushed to one extreme or the other.
don't know; never had the wherewithal to even consider the dugout/5th base
that's a somewhat ignorant view of the "christian" belief system. not all christians believe that every physical manifestation (especially the harmful) is the act, or will of God. that's like saying all vegetarians are strict vegans (i know it's not an equal comparison).
Then you don't believe that God is omnipotent. Either that, or he lets the devil run wild. He's either impotent or an absentee slum owner who lets his caretaker torture the tenants. Either way, I'm not impressed...
Silver, I know you love to torture the Christians but let's keep the blatant flaming to at least some reasonable level, okay? I'm not one to moderate the PAWN forum but when every third post is Christian-bashing...
I'm not pointing out anything that Epicurus hadn't noticed a few thousand years ago...
Having said that, $tinkle's got the best post on the thread. Especially the part about the Catholic girl who refused to use a rubber because she didn't want to sin while having premarital sex
Besides which, a true Christian would have to forgive me, wouldn't he?
i'll pray for you........
damnit...must spread rep to more users...
I'm sure he would.
However, a true Ridemonkey Admin does not fall under the jurisdiction of your trifling religions. Here we celebrate the One True God, Beer, and He is a vengeful God with no concepts of such feeble notions as "forgiveness."
Your God is a feeble God.
Whiskey is the one true God.
So, in that case, wouldn't you agree that I'm actually doing Christians a favor by giving them an opportunity to exercise the forgiveness that their religion demands of them? And you want me to tone it down?
Why do you hate Christians so much?
if you keep this up, i'm going to have joe biden shove his rosary beads down your throat
Close to being Biblically accurate IMHO.
I think you have the idea that God is like Zeus ruling from on high and intervening in the daily minutiae of people's lives. It simply is not this way, well, obviously.
Props to $tinkle for his 1st post in this thread.
How bout the robe and the lightening bolts? Tell me he's still got the robe and the lightening bolts.
bahh, your whiskey god is teh weak, the true god is ta-kill-ya, w/patron silver being a favorite diety
I don't hate Christians.
I hate America.
I just want to take every opportunity to oppress your rights as an American citizen.
any more or less human? i dont know...
an ectopic pregnancy has virtually a zero chance of sucess.
a fertilized egg, of say, 12 weeks has a non negligible chance... unless you falcon punch the uterus or something....
uh, until about 23 weeks the chances are 0 to the best of my knowledge. can't survive if your lungs haven't formed yet.
do you have any thoughts to share toshi?
he does, but a whole toshi-thought is known to cause the brains of mere mortals to explode. In another thread, n* was exposed to a half toshi-thought and have you noticed he ain't been 'round much?
i think the "moral" argument against abortion is ridiculous, and i think that the example of ectopic pregnancies highlights this. why should a bundle of cells be treated differently in the eyes of teh jeebus if it implants itself in the uterus or only a few cm away in the fallopian tube? in neither case is the fetus viable, and in both cases i feel that the mother's well-being should be paramount. note that well-being would include down the road effects from raising said bundle of cells, not just immediate complications.
Unless of course you're the next Aquaman...
iirc, implantation on the fallopian tube doesn't necessarily disqualify viability (what - < 1% or so?).
i certainly believe the decision making process shall involve a non-arbitrary moral compass. just too bad there are those who make absolute moral decisions on a not so b&w issue. it's equally disappointing those who eschew morality absolutely in this difficult process.
Let's not pretend that in the USA that's a two way street with the same amount of traffic flowing in each direction...
With a shortage of pit fighting babies in this world I can't believe any kind of abortion is still legal. Think gas is expensive, has anyone tried buying an infant recently? Simply outrageous.
1.3M per annum are aborted in the u.s.
how many abortion doctors, health care workers, PP staff members, literature publishers, pregnant women who voice desire to get an abortion, cab drivers who take them, litigators defending a woman's right to choose, & pro-choice demonstrators are put to death either in response or pre-emptively?
figures within the correct order of magnitude will suffice
Is this a parody post now?
teen birth rates in the US were increasing significantly (~3%) in 2006 after a 14-year deciine, to 42 births per 1,000 15-19 yo's. In absolute terms, 4.26 million births.
Breakout of 15-17 vs 18-19 below:
For more info: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/teenbrth.htm
"teen" == "women"?