Problems at BMW
- Thread starter osi
- Start date
only on the 745 IL. They fail to start sometimes
I heard the new i-drive controls are obtuse.
from everything I have heard shy away from the xi models the ride height caused by the all wheel drive mechanisms causes poor handling
does anyone else have no clue what is going in this thread?
narlus said:
I think it's thread derailling.
No not to my knowledge I will be the on friday
any company is subject to producing a bad frame every now and again but the fact that these frames are made by riders, made in house, made by hand by Americans means that they are less likely to have a defect.
joel
This is my frame.
joel
This is my frame.
maybe it's just me, but i'd rather have a good welder working on my bike than a good rider. not saying that they are mutually exclusive. and the welder doesn't have to be american to be good either.
JFC, everything has to be spelled out for you doesn't it. Too bad to you cause I'm not going to micro explain or write paragraphs at 8th grade level so you can stay in the conversation.narlus said:
A single hint so you can keep up:
The "hand made" and American statements were ONLY referring to the mass production that is going on oversees (Taiwan) by other frame makers and the corresponding odds of getting a defective frame.
Go back and re-read my statement and maybe the lights will come on.
joel
hey, it's all cool and fun to own a boutique bike. i've had my share too. i can see you've invested heavy financial and psychological capital into it; at least yr username isn't indelibly tied to a product which you might discard at somepoint. avatars are an easier swap.
Funny you say that cause my user name is M1_joel on everyother message board cause I had a, you guess it, an M1 at the time. RM was the first message board i ever joined and I didn't get the fact that the screen name was intended to be an alias. Anyway, Since the m1, ive had a santa cruz and now a bmw so youre right, avatars are easier to change.narlus said:
joel
i am just a shmoe in dallas, texas. Im no way tied to bmwSlugman said:Aparently it's not just material problems... but attitude as well.neaky:
Methinks that you actually have better odds with a high-end mass produced bike than with any hand-built bike. Fact is machines are better and more consistent than any man. I like Brooklyn and this isn't personal but Tawain has the best facilities in the world to make quality bikes, PERIOD.
side note: You might want to think twice before insinuating an 8th grade education with (educated!) people who's history you don't know...
side note: You might want to think twice before insinuating an 8th grade education with (educated!) people who's history you don't know...
joel hester said:
I'm sure they are happy about that...joel hester said:
Well with such a venemous response and their logo as your avitar, you seem to have taken it upon yourself to represent them.
If I were a 'BMW' person(employee, rider, owner), I'd be embarrased by you.
punkassean said:
Taiwan has the best equipment to make a lot of bike very fast. Since all bikes are welded by humans and all bikes are QCed by humans, doesn't it make some sense to have a small company who is personally invested doing these things. Instead of some guy in Taiwan making chump change.
I have made a lot of bikes by hand and I have done a lot of repairs on bikes made in factories. In general, the fewer # of bikes the facility produced, the more attention to detail is paid.
Just My $.02
I would be very curios to see actual #'s...keep in mind I was very careful to type HIGH-END. I know low-end bikes are pretty much crap any way you slice 'em.
thats a bad weld if i ever saw one, your mount definetly should not have failed throughout the weld like that, anyway im sure you were taken care of.joel hester said:
but what id like to ask you is why frames specifically made by "Americans" would have anything to do with a frame being less likely to fail? thats BS in IMHO. Nationality has nothing to do with the quality of a frame. Its simply down to product quality control.
Now, im ready for the onslaught of americans accusing me of americanbashing activity..
*sarcasm*
Then again, you HEAR about the horror stories surrounding small frame makers and other small companies like Karpiel, Ellsworth, Atomlab. So small isnt always best either. Bottomline, I think these forums are a valuable place to get good information and get both sides of any story.
Then some people just want to be jackass' and argue for arguments sake!
Then some people just want to be jackass' and argue for arguments sake!
yup. call me a non-patriot but....grimm said:thats a bad weld if i ever saw one, your mount definetly should not have failed throughout the weld like that, anyway im sure you were taken care of.
but what id like to ask you is why frames specifically made by "Americans" would have anything to do with a frame being less likely to fail? thats BS in IMHO. Nationality has nothing to do with the quality of a frame. Its simply down to product quality control.
Now, im ready for the onslaught of americans accusing me of americanbashing activity..
nevermind.
grimm said:
your right, it is not a matter of USA or not. the point was quality of material and craftsmanship as it pertains to small-run, hand made vs. mass produced oversees. you guys need to re-read the origional post.
what are you talking about?grimm said:
nothing failed on the bike. this shot was taken at Avalanche. i sent the frame up there to get the shocks reservoir line moved and relocated. The BMW welded me a mount to hold the reservoir.
pretty cool to send your frame back to the guy who made it and have him fabricate little mods for ya!
jh
I can personally attest to the fact that some of the stuff that comes from small shops in the US is crap... Not that it's a constant but we get a lot of defective parts from small machine shops that are located in and around San Diego, many of the descrepancies are on dimensions they are supposed to check before they send the parts to us. The bottom line is they want to eat so they ship stuff to us knowing that it's crap but hoping that we'll send them a check before we figure that out.
I'd hate to lump BMW in the same category with our poopy suppliers but stereotyping a small company as being better than a large company or a hand built product being better than a machine built product can go either way. It just depends on how concerned about quality the manufacturer is.
I'd hate to lump BMW in the same category with our poopy suppliers but stereotyping a small company as being better than a large company or a hand built product being better than a machine built product can go either way. It just depends on how concerned about quality the manufacturer is.
Is that a FTQ or a mini-link?
Taiwanese produced bikes are some of the best bikes on the market, high end or not. You guys who think otherwise should get your heads out of your collective asses.
The only reason to get a hand made bike is status or brand recognition, or for some feature you cannot get otherwise.
The only reason to get a hand made bike is status or brand recognition, or for some feature you cannot get otherwise.
Kornphlake said:
That really goes either way I guess. It has a lot more to do with the employees and the companies than location and size. I can make crappy parts all day with a CNC mill. I can cut perfect tube miters with a file.
my math skills are the suck.tmx said:
That said, i personally own and ride 3 handmade bikes, and 1 mass produced aluminum bike (coincidentally produced in the usa when i got it, since moved to taiwan).
Would i pay the extra money to have something i really wanted? Of course, but besides that, there was really no reason for it. I could be just as happy with a dh bike produced overseas if one was made with the same design.
the point was that "taiwanese" does not equal crappy bike now.
tmx said:
good god man, that is hands down the sexiest bike on the planet! need more pics ASAP.
those welds look lots cleaner than the frame i saw tho. significantly cleaner.tmx said:
then i didnt look long enough, coz it looked like the lower shock mount failed through the weld.joel hester said:
also. i read your post just fine, and you did bring up the fact that it being american hand made would make an impact on durability, and in the process saying that foreign bikes necessarily wouldnt meet the same "standard".. which caught my attention and i figured id voice my opinion about that, just like you voiced yours, nothing more and nothing less.
buildyourown said:
I think you got the point I was trying to make, not all small shops have stellar or crappy quality, it really depends on the attention the employees give and to a smaller extent the equipment they have available. Like you say, "you" can cut perfect miters all day with a file but someone who doesn't give a hoot can cut horrendous miters all day with a laser cutter. The differance is you wouldn't sell or ship something you know is substandard while others would have no reservations in doing so.