Quantcast

production hondas

mxer338

Monkey
May 9, 2005
325
0
CT
i 'member a while back we had that whole long thread with that production-looking honda, but no news since, does anyone know if there going to be produced? if so, when? and most importantly, how much? thank you to anyone who has a clue
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,435
615
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
I talked to the honda guys at a race and with the correct amount of money you could get honda to make you one, I also learned that just the machined ti and carbon gearbox is in the $35,000 range so a time-share mite be a better option than outright buying one.
 

mxer338

Monkey
May 9, 2005
325
0
CT
yah but the "production" one had a plastic lookin gearbox and was less flashy than the things the team riders had been riding
 

S.K.C.

Turbo Monkey
Feb 28, 2005
4,104
25
Pa. / North Jersey
...$35,000 for a proto gear box... yeeeesh.

Yeah - in the automotive industry I know of people like the Sultan of Brunei who have actually purchased manufacturer's 1-off prototypes (remember Ferrari's "Mythos" spyder from the late 80's???) and even had their own custom order production runs (an order of 10 or so Silver Spur twin-turbos from Roll Royce - done sometime between 1989 and 1995)

But come on now, $35,000 for a proto gear box is a boatload of cash (and when we say "gearbox" we are referring to just the gearbox - not the entire bike - correct?). You were saying this is a fairly reasonable price. I'm curious - what exactly are you comparing this to in the world of DH bikes??? For example: "Well I remember a quoted price for a proto ......... "

Just curious.
 

Zutroy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
2,445
0
Ventura,CA
Wasen't it reported Shimano spent like 15k on that proto drum brake back like 98ish? It's not unreasonable the gear box was 35k. Remember these are guys that spend millions on racing programs.
 

Repack

Turbo Monkey
Nov 29, 2001
1,894
0
Boston Area
$35,000=~.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of Honda (Iresearched it) and a small sum to develop anything as complex as a gearbox. The 35K most likely reflects all of the man hours that went into the project as well as all the tooling costs. Sure they could probably done it from day-1 out of Aluminum and high-impact plastic, but that just wouldn't have been cool. Besides, when has Honda ever half-assed anything? Remember that selling price is a function of variable and fixed production costs. Imagine what kind of costs are involved to justify any frame in the ~$2,500 range.
 

S.K.C.

Turbo Monkey
Feb 28, 2005
4,104
25
Pa. / North Jersey
...hmmm now that I think about it - Honda did abandon their CVT "Continuously Variable Transmission" program in favor of the lighter and immensely simplistic "derailleur in a box" after a year or so of testing... Not to mention about 3 iterations of the CVT transmission.

That's a LOT of R&D time.... too bad it was too complex for it's intended application though - it was truely an amazing feat of engineering and design.
 

Zutroy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
2,445
0
Ventura,CA
S.K.C. said:
...hmmm now that I think about it - Honda did abandon their CVT "Continuously Variable Transmission" program in favor of the lighter and immensely simplistic "derailleur in a box" after a year or so of testing... Not to mention about 3 iterations of the CVT transmission.

That's a LOT of R&D time.... too bad it was too complex for it's intended application though - it was truely an amazing feat of engineering and design.

I don't think that's the case....if it was a der in a box they wouldn't take it up to the rooms at night.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,435
615
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Repack, your acualy probably dead on but it's not all man hours you ever try to machine a chunk of ti, that gearbox is suposed to be all one peice so just a rough guees I'd say thats like two solid weeks of milling. Also in the spirit of GREGMINAR up there I'l would like to change my user name to JONTOMAC and answer posts as if I were him.
 

S.K.C.

Turbo Monkey
Feb 28, 2005
4,104
25
Pa. / North Jersey
No, it's not really anything like the old CVT system anymore at all - doesn't require a degree in Astro Physics to figure out :D ...I've seen pics of it, and it is in fact a Derailleur system similar to the Hayes Gearbox. The new derailleur system was developed by Matsumoto and Morita - the same guys who designed the abandonded CVT system.

With the old CVT system the drivetrain was totally silent at idle (coasting) and during shifting, but with the new one, you can hear the traditional sounds of chains and gears spinning as well as the "tink-tink" of shifting.

This was covered in MBA Jan. 05' - pretty interesting stuff...
 

Zutroy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
2,445
0
Ventura,CA
Yeah, that's what Honda showed, and patented, but that's not what's in the bike. Once you patent something the cats out of the box. Honda is not treathing that gearbox as such, they don't open it in from of anyone at a race, and they take it back to the hotel at night. My guess is that patent is for the first thing they did to get the bike rolling, whats in there now they are treating it like a trade secret which means you don't let anyone see it, you don't patent it so no one has a clue.
 

Repack

Turbo Monkey
Nov 29, 2001
1,894
0
Boston Area
I have a feeling in my gut that this thread has already gone too far down the e-spec slippery slope but I'll chime in again anyway. As far as patents go, people seem to be overlooking the fact that although the gearbox is based on a patent, Honda may have developed a potentially patentable refinement to the original design. It doesn't need to be very different than the original, just better.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,435
615
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
now I am totaly convinced that that's not Greg Minaar, it's just some kid. Not to sound like a conspiricy theorist here but why would Honda publicly file a patent for there actual desighn, all a patent does is prevent others from making money off the idea, they can still use it, so my guess is that patent is just another design they kicked around but aren't using
 

Zutroy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
2,445
0
Ventura,CA
Yeah most things are easy to hide and radically different tend to be kept as trade secrets instead of patiented these days
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
35k, average automotive engineer probably makes around 100k-ish? (too high maybe?) figure out of the 35k maybe 20 was RandD, 15k actually production costs, machining, material, machines, etc. 20 is maybe 2-3 months of work for 2 engineers? thats pennies to a billion dollar company, especially when they can sell the frame set for probably 5k when they want to....
________
FORD CROWN VICTORIA HISTORY
 
Last edited:

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,578
0
Victoria
S.K.C. said:
But come on now, $35,000 for a proto gear box is a boatload of cash (and when we say "gearbox" we are referring to just the gearbox - not the entire bike - correct?). You were saying this is a fairly reasonable price. I'm curious - what exactly are you comparing this to in the world of DH bikes??? For example: "Well I remember a quoted price for a proto ......... "

Just curious.
Ibis apparently spent about $300,000 developing their new carbon Mojo (it is the Mojo right?). That's a ****load of money.