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Progression of jumping tricks? your opinions or advice?

brungeman

I give a shirt
Jan 17, 2006
5,173
0
da Burgh
Ok, so I have been a XC mountain biker for years, and before that I basically messed around on BMX's, never anything organized just fun riding... and at age 34, that was a long time ago!

In the past year I started really loving DH'n and a lot of the courses have booters and drops... I am comfortable with drops, but kickers got me nervous, so I decided that I was going to "un-nervous" myself by building up a DJ bike and focus on being comfortable in the air! It is working and I am feeling the flow of the jumps now and really liking it. which leads to my question...

once you are getting comfortable with jumping and you are starting to "flow" the jumps getting your amplitude up a bit, what are the next steps and for lack of better terms "moves or tricks" that you want to do....?

table?
X-up?

what did you learn ?(I know for some of you this is a long time ago, but humor me I am a NewB to jumping)!

and thanks for the input guys...
PS... if you missed the Ray's ride report, here is my rig...
my new DJ ride aka "the white trash trailerpark" you can see the reason its called "white" but this bike was built up from all my leftover parts plus a few hence the "trash" and as you can tell, the frame is a white Transition "Trail Or Park" :twitch:
 

eaterofdog

ass grabber
Sep 8, 2006
6,843
22
Central Florida
I learned the Dead Sailor, the Fight The Bike and the Rag Doll right after I started jumping.

For serious, a good question. What should I be working on? I have be working on tables and turn downs, because I don't have to take my hands or feet off.
 

brungeman

I give a shirt
Jan 17, 2006
5,173
0
da Burgh
I learned the Dead Sailor, the Fight The Bike and the Rag Doll right after I started jumping.

For serious, a good question. What should I be working on? I have be working on tables and turn downs, because I don't have to take my hands or feet off.
:clapping:

what no "ghost bike" :rofl: that was always one of my favorite moves (specially with borrowed bikes) :clapping:
 

opjones

Monkey
Aug 17, 2006
679
0
Detroit
Tables take a lot of practice to get down. I've been trying to learn for a couple years and I'm still not there. After I started getting a good feeling for flowing over jumps I started taking off one hand. I turned that into a tire grab and a half ass tobaggon. I like to throw out a nice whip and I turned that into moving my bike around in the air and getting comfortable hipping both ways. Can't quite get a full X-up, but I haven't been working on those in a while. I've been working on 180 bunny hops and hopefully I can turn that into 360's on the jump. Start with something small that will progress into something bigger is what I'm trying to say I guess.
 

t1maglio

Monkey
Oct 29, 2001
855
0
southern wisconsin
Here is my progression, do with it as you will (just jumping stuff)

Tabletop
X-up
one-footer (back foot)
can-can
Griz Air
One footed x-up
one footed table
No footer
no footed can-can
Pendulum (no footed can both ways in one jump)
Porn star (no footed one hander)
Crank Flip
Tire grab
Pedal air
x-up (opposite)
one-footer (forward foot)

The tailwhip has eluded me for years, but I'm still working on that, I also just strarte working on tobogans (to hard crashes:disgust1:)

You can see that as you learn to take feet off it opens up new tricks, same with hands. I personally hated taking my hands off until recently. Everyone is different, and it also depends on the tricks you like. Remember also, just jumping relaxed and with style is important. You can be able to do a lot of tricks, but if you force them or do them small they don't look as good. Its always best to have a small bag of tricks but be able to do them really well and in a variety of ways.

Good luck!
 

urbaindk

The Real Dr. Science
Jul 12, 2004
4,831
0
Sleepy Hollar
Brunge, I'm a year older (35) and none-the-wiser. I've been working on not casing and staying loose in the air. I can do little tables and whips and the occasional one-hander. That's about it. Seems like tables and turndowns are pretty useful tools for DH. Redirecting the bike in the air is also very important, so work on transfers and hips. As always, staying loose is key.
 

Cru Jones

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2006
3,032
0
Hell Track
Seems like tables and turndowns are pretty useful tools for DH.
I'm not sure how turndowns would be useful for DH. That'd be hella rad, though, if someone was clicking them during their run. Has anyone ever done a turndown on a DH bike? It'd have to be on a single crown. It's also one of the hardest tricks to learn.

As far as progression for dirt jumping, the most important thing is jumping and flowing with style without doing any tricks. Nothing looks worse than somebody who can't make a normal jump look good trying to do tricks.

But, once you've got your flow on, you could start with some basic tricks that can turn into bigger tricks...

one handers - then tire grabs, seat grabs, toboggons, etc
one footers - then can cans, nac nacs, griz airs, etc
no footers - then no cans, etc
x-ups - then one footed/one handed x-ups
tables and whips (These take forever to truly master, but should be part of your basic flow)
 

urbaindk

The Real Dr. Science
Jul 12, 2004
4,831
0
Sleepy Hollar
I'm not sure how turndowns would be useful for DH. That'd be hella rad, though, if someone was clicking them during there run. Has anyone ever done a turndown on a DH bike? It'd have to be on a single crown. It's also one of the hardest tricks to learn.
I've seen them used for scrubbing speed or for transfering over a hip. I'm not talking "all tweeked out" or anything.
See for instance: http://www.leelikesbikes.com/whats-with-this-turndown-action.html#more-639

Edit: Oops terminalogy error. DH turndown = scrub. My bad.
 

t1maglio

Monkey
Oct 29, 2001
855
0
southern wisconsin
Seems like tables and turndowns are pretty useful tools for DH.
Man, I think I'm watching the wrong DHing cuz I've never seen someone lay down a Turndown while going 30-40mph down a steep hill. That would be amazing, though! Not to mention getting your bar stuck on your shorts or pants and crashing all contorted like that :shocked:

Tables, that I can see.
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,059
5
austin
back in the day (hah hah) we had a rad step up dirt jump which was AWESOME for learning tricks. step ups are cool because you get hang time off the lip but not as far to fall/bail. the ideal jump is a ravine, where you carve a lip lower down on the opposite wall, then air up to the top with a mellow landing. there was an old bmx video with troy mcmurray in colorado or maybe arizona doing rad stuff. and of course that dude in eddie roman's ride on (1992), (chad harrington ?) doing rad/silly limbless combos on a step up. anyway, they're fun.
 

brungeman

I give a shirt
Jan 17, 2006
5,173
0
da Burgh
great stuff guys!

I agree with the statements above about flow etc. I hate seeing someone ride with NO FLOW or ugly STYLE! I don't care how "Tech" the moves are if you look like sh!t in the air... YOU ARE SH!T IN THE AIR!

I have been riding with full suspension since 1996, and just couldn't get a good flow while trying to jump. When I switched to a dedicated DJ rig, in just one afternoon I felt comfortable and smooth. I didn't have to work as hard pumping through the tranny to keep up speed, and when I hit the lip, I didn't lose all my drive to the suspension. DJ'n became fun, not work. And because I had put all the time in trying to jump on FS I feel better for it now because of how much easier it seams on an HT!

I know I am still pretty far from removing limbs while in the air... but I needed to hear others tell what they focused on as they progressed! these suggestions are like a carrot for me, to mentally know that I have some more to learn and here are the things you need to learn!

If you couldn't tell, I am stoked on riding right now, your suggestions are keeping my attention while we are in the middle of a winter weather advisory with 3" of the wettest snow I have seen in years. So thanks again, and keep the suggestions coming! :thumb:

PS... I have been watching the DJ video "episode 2"on the Rogue website over and over SO SWEET! :monkeydance:
 

v-digit

Turbo Monkey
Apr 3, 2006
1,220
0
Brooklyn, NY
man, i been "trying" to DJ for years.... but for some reason i get all tense as soon as the jump is bigger then a baby size one. doesnt matter if its a double or a table - i've hit both, but it seems as if i start freaking out and get stiff as soon as i'm in the air.

what can i do?
 

sb317

Monkey
Sep 6, 2005
339
0
North Carolina
Just keep reminding yourself to relax. Find a smaller jump you're comfortable with and hit it over and over until you feel relaxed and smooth and then try to take that to the next one in the line or where ever the next size jump is. I used to get tight in the air (still do sometimes) but you get over it after a while and that's when you really start flowing and having fun. I also found when riding in a train with better riders you tend to follow their style and pick up on their smoothness and that helps too. At least it does with me.
 

brungeman

I give a shirt
Jan 17, 2006
5,173
0
da Burgh
Just keep reminding yourself to relax. Find a smaller jump you're comfortable with and hit it over and over until you feel relaxed and smooth and then try to take that to the next one in the line or where ever the next size jump is. I used to get tight in the air (still do sometimes) but you get over it after a while and that's when you really start flowing and having fun. I also found when riding in a train with better riders you tend to follow their style and pick up on their smoothness and that helps too. At least it does with me.
the train thing is a great idea! I noticed myself matching speed and following the line of the other guys! It did help big time!
 

Durt

Chimp
Nov 28, 2007
59
0
I’m almost 40 and didn’t get serious about DJ’s until 2 years ago. For me, just flowing through and making it smooth gets me high. I can whip both ways but sometimes struggle to bring them back. I can pull half-ass tables and a fair x-up. I started by just turning the bars in the air. That evolved into x-ups. When I jump, the back end kind of just naturally floats out to the side. That evolved into whips. Combining x-ups and whips evolved into tables. The whips and x-ups are now almost unconscious moves. They just happen without even really thinking about. Tables I have to concentrate on and really work at. (Someone told me to really curl my legs, keep knees together, and pull my feet up towards my butt. That has helped a bunch.) For me, it’s not about tricks. It’s about just riding and hanging with buds, progressing to larger and larger jumps, and just jumping, flowing, and having fun. Smooth flow gets me off. If I try to pull tricks, I’m about as smooth as a gravel road!
 

sb317

Monkey
Sep 6, 2005
339
0
North Carolina
For me, it’s not about tricks. It’s about just riding and hanging with buds, progressing to larger and larger jumps, and just jumping, flowing, and having fun.
That's the ticket right there. When you hit a line smooth it's hard to wipe the grin off your face.
 

Durt

Chimp
Nov 28, 2007
59
0
It’s all confidence v-digit. Every time I try a new jump, I get nervous as hell and am really stiff. But every jump I was ever afraid of, after I made it over the first time, I was like DOH! That was so much easier than I thought! Fear is good. It makes you stop and think. You just have to suck it up and go for it. Positive mental outlook! I am going to own this f-ing jump!

I also agree that following an experienced rider is a great learning tool.
 

v-digit

Turbo Monkey
Apr 3, 2006
1,220
0
Brooklyn, NY
my other problem is that the jumps i'm trying to hit nowday - i have to pedal balls out ALL the way up to the lip, which throws me off.
i usualy do better with jumps that i can set up/"calmly" ride into. i've hit some good size doubles before too - but i didnt have to pedal up the lip.... then there is that ACL recon surgery i had last year.... so many excuses, eh? :) :)
 

t1maglio

Monkey
Oct 29, 2001
855
0
southern wisconsin
my other problem is that the jumps i'm trying to hit nowday - i have to pedal balls out ALL the way up to the lip, which throws me off.
i usualy do better with jumps that i can set up/"calmly" ride into. i've hit some good size doubles before too - but i didnt have to pedal up the lip.... then there is that ACL recon surgery i had last year.... so many excuses, eh? :) :)
Two thoughts as I read this. First, I had a 25-12 setup on my 26". At my local bmx track I was jumping this table that was around 20ft. I was pedaling my butt off trying to get over it (which sucks). My problem was that my gearing is to hight, perhaps kicking your bike up a tooth or so it would help. You gotta set up your gearing for what your riding, ya know. And it makes such a huge difference if you can calmly go up the lip versus pedaling as deep into as possible (also confidence that you will for sure have enough speed to clear helps).

Also, the other day I was jumping at some little jumps that are pretty crapped out from kids hacking at the lips,etc. Anyway, I was getting bucked all over the place, mostly because the lip was so crappy. I found that when I relaxed and absorbed it better I was much smoother. To do this I stopped pedaling a little sooner, took a breath of air, and really tried to relax.

Kind of a lot of work for a silly little jump, but whatever. If your on nice trails and get your flow on your good to go. Just gotta get that confidence up. The more you jump, the more natural it will all feel, and thats when some little trickery works into the picture.

Actually, thats one last thing, sometimes doing tricks helps get your mind off all the other stuff. You just react to the jump, do your trick, and land, all subconciously. I'm not saying a double whip or anything, but maybe if your mind is off, trying doing an x-up or something. It might help.
 

sittingduck

Turbo Monkey
Jun 22, 2007
1,962
0
Oregon
I jump because, there's nothing like the feeling of finally making it through that larger rhythm section. Or knowing of a really big jump and being scared shytless of it - then finally hitting it and nailing it. I live for that feeling of floating as you boost as high as you can off the lip.
It's a never ending challenge and a source of much joy (and pain).