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Progression

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,064
10,627
AK
This is a good as place as any for this and hopefully there'll be some more stories on similar stuff, like drops, jumps, gaps, etc.

I've been riding aggressively for a long time, all that stuff above and moar, never turning away from a good challenge, but I've never put in the time to learn how to wheelie or manual. Preloading for drops and rolling off loading docks was something I mastered long ago, so keeping the wheel from not dropping away has never been an issue.

With COVID and just this time of the season, it kind of presented the perfect opportunity to try and learn something new. About 3 weeks ago, we were still riding snow trails, although they were starting to fall apart. There is a wide open straight stretch known as the "gas-line" that is relatively flat, only slightly uphill or downhill, and pretty much everyone uses it, XC skiers, walkers, etc. Not long, only about half a mile.

Watched a bunch of videos and then set out trying to do what they said in the videos. Of course, everyone on youtube thinks they are a great teacher, but in reality it's hard. At first I was trying to slam the seat and not locking my arms, which didn't help. Later, I was trying to pop the front end too high and in too low of a gear. Eventually, I was able to hold some kind of wheelie for a few seconds, with no directional control, it definitely wasn't "clicking" at this point and I wasn't getting into any kind of sustainable situation. I think some of the videos lead me down a little wrong path, really emphasizing the pop and saying to be in an easy gear...too easy to maintain forward speed and too high of a pop to pedal against and reach the balance point. On this stretch though, I did have a breakthrough where I got into a higher (harder) gear and was able to pedal against my wheel falling and feel the balance point some. That took at least 2.5 weeks to get to that point. A couple rides after that and I'm doing wheelies on every little stretch I can find.

About a week later, I'm starting to feel side-to-side balance and able to influence it somewhat. Not as much as I'd like, but I definitely felt this last night and had a good ride. They say in the videos to only practice for 45 min at a time, but I find myself doing it for 3 hours and trying to do it on every possible stretch. It also doesn't feel like I'm ripping my arms out of my sockets or anything bad anymore. Still trying to figure out downhill. Sometimes I can do it and control it, sometimes I just keep going faster and eventually lose control. Definitely making some progression though, even despite the guy trying to kill me last night.

Yesterday wheelie-bro ride:

What are your progression stories?
 
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Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,088
1,235
El Lay
Old person thread.

What Westy said. After so many broken bones and my joints starting to wear out, all my riding is centered around being able to ride again tomorrow.

I have tall guy bad cornering habits, and that's my main focus on progression.

Manual practice would be kinda fun to tackle again. I've gone backward with those, as the big bikes have gotten longer and harder to manual.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,109
1,799
Northern California
Learned to wheelie years ago, never got to a mastery level and don't practice but can still do them ok. Worked on manuals for awhile back in the early 2000s, got to the point where I could straddle the balance point for a few parking spaces (I'd practice in parking lots to use the lines between spots as a measuring stick), but stopped after awhile and have lost most it. What I'm mainly always concentrating on is improving cornering - getting lower in my leans faster, better leaning form (weight distribution, keeping body uprightish etc), snapping out of turns faster, better controlling drift initiation. I'm also starting to work on punches as they can be super useful on the trail -
 

dovbush66

Monkey
Aug 27, 2018
195
218
Ireland
Switching to bmx as my main thing and riding mtb seasonally instead of year round helped me a lot with progress. I actually took this advice from a vital mtb podcast with colin bailey where he said to do something similar since it teaches technique and gets you stoked as fuck when big bike season rolls around. I can vouch for it for sure, got a few rides in before the lock downs and I've gotten better despite not touching the dh rig in 6 months

right now I'm mainly focusing on proper hops, manuals and footjams. Proper bhops finally fucken clicked with me, I was doing them unconsciously at the indoor park but never got them good riding street before. jams helped me a lot with fear of going otb.

might start wheeling the mtb out to practice some pre hops on staircases. or just huck to flat like the bike was designed to!
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,064
10,627
AK
Learned to wheelie years ago, never got to a mastery level and don't practice but can still do them ok. Worked on manuals for awhile back in the early 2000s, got to the point where I could straddle the balance point for a few parking spaces (I'd practice in parking lots to use the lines between spots as a measuring stick), but stopped after awhile and have lost most it. What I'm mainly always concentrating on is improving cornering - getting lower in my leans faster, better leaning form (weight distribution, keeping body uprightish etc), snapping out of turns faster, better controlling drift initiation. I'm also starting to work on punches as they can be super useful on the trail -
There are a few times I'm able to coast (pedals stationary) while wheeling, not for long, usually happens when I'm super tired from doing the wheelies. I can't maintain it for very long, but I guess that is manualling? Coasting while in that position.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,732
1,243
NORCAL is the hizzle
There are a few times I'm able to coast (pedals stationary) while wheeling, not for long, usually happens when I'm super tired from doing the wheelies. I can't maintain it for very long, but I guess that is manualling? Coasting while in that position.
People use the terminology pretty loosely but it’s not really a manual if you are sitting down and using your seat for leverage. Manuals are definitely harder for me.

Anyway, wheelies in general are a life skill. From what I’ve seen most folks can get pretty decent with some focused practice, and from there you can keep the skills pretty fresh just by doing them occasionally.

Tip for when you’re bike is running away and you‘re pedaling like mad to keep up: Lean back. Further. No, really, even further than that. Even better, stand up - Boom, you’re manualing! Just be sure to cover the brake.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,064
10,627
AK
Tip for when you’re bike is running away and you‘re pedaling like mad to keep up: Lean back. Further. No, really, even further than that. Even better, stand up - Boom, you’re manualing! Just be sure to cover the brake.
I've been getting close to that, yes leaning back more and being able to ride down some little inclines, speed-bumps, the other side of a crowned bridge, etc., I can't put it all together though, especially earlier on a ride. I'm kinda glad that this is taking some work, not only that I'm able to do it and get better. Some friends have made it look stupid easy and it's not, it can look and feel good, but it takes work. I'm glad to see that's the case, rather than some stupid luck-skill that I just don't understand.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
funny, i've been doing the back alley evening manual practice sessions as of late, as that skill has rustified over the years (wheelies are still pretty solid tho). just good to get out of the house & mess around on the bike. bikes are rad.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,064
10,627
AK
I try to do hard training rides every other day. Right now, the trails are all swamps, so that means shitty hill-climbs. So in-between, to keep active and avoid bullshit like running, I'm working on the skills thing. Easy ride, but concentrate on skills.

Back to prog, One of the things that kind of confused me at first were all the videos saying it was much easier to learn a wheelie on flats. Ok...I switched out my pedals and put in a couple sessions like that. Nope, not easier. Methinks they just weren't used to clipless?
 
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StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,508
In hell. Welcome!
I try to do hard training rides every other day. Right now, the trails are all swamps, so that means shitty hill-climbs. So in-between, to keep active and avoid bullshit like running, I'm working on the skills thing. Easy ride, but concentrate on skills.

Back to prog, One of the things that kind of confused me at first were all the videos saying it was much easier to learn a wheelie on flats. Ok...I switched out my pedals and put in a couple sessions like that. Nope, not easier. Methinks they just weren't used to clipless?
One of the steps in practicing wheelies is getting past the balance point and jumping off the bike "backwards". I can't imagine wanting to do that clipped in. I am not good at wheelies but I can comfortably find the balance point after years of practice, as well as doing wheelie drops into a wheelie. Pushing the bike away / "sitting in it with straight arms" is more important than pedaling or trying to balance, for me.
I don't think you can get the manual down until you get comfortable with this "sitting in a balance point", and I suck at manuals much worse than at wheelies.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,732
1,243
NORCAL is the hizzle
I've been getting close to that, yes leaning back more and being able to ride down some little inclines, speed-bumps, the other side of a crowned bridge, etc., I can't put it all together though, especially earlier on a ride. I'm kinda glad that this is taking some work, not only that I'm able to do it and get better. Some friends have made it look stupid easy and it's not, it can look and feel good, but it takes work. I'm glad to see that's the case, rather than some stupid luck-skill that I just don't understand.
People who don't want to put in the time sometimes say they just don't have the "wheelie gene". I think it's BS. Some people are better naturally, but it's a learned skill, just like others.

funny, i've been doing the back alley evening manual practice sessions as of late, as that skill has rustified over the years (wheelies are still pretty solid tho). just good to get out of the house & mess around on the bike. bikes are rad.
Same! I can do wheelies for miles but manuals take more work for me. And back alley happy hour sessions are almost a daily occurrence for me here in SF.
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
I took Ryan Leech's 30 day challenge to avoid killing my son with a chainsaw during the mandatory Covid19 isolation. Best invested time in many years. I can now maintain a good cadence through my whole backyard (about 25 meters, or 80 feet in nutjob units). I reckon I was one of those justifying themselves by telling we were born without the wheelie gene, and I have to agree with @OGRipper here. It's just lack of commitment.

Now I'm focusing on bump jumps/hops, something I really enjoyed back when street riding was a thing in the early 2000s and I kinda forgot after getting used to long(er) travel dual suspension bikes. Getting the timing and momentum right every single time felt wonderful back when I was younger, so re-learning the skills is a really good driver.
 
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Feb 21, 2020
939
1,297
SoCo Western Slope
Learned to wheelie years ago, never got to a mastery level and don't practice but can still do them ok. Worked on manuals for awhile back in the early 2000s, got to the point where I could straddle the balance point for a few parking spaces (I'd practice in parking lots to use the lines between spots as a measuring stick), but stopped after awhile and have lost most it. What I'm mainly always concentrating on is improving cornering - getting lower in my leans faster, better leaning form (weight distribution, keeping body uprightish etc), snapping out of turns faster, better controlling drift initiation. I'm also starting to work on punches as they can be super useful on the trail -

Think that's good on an mtb, you should try it with 12" of suspension and a throttle!

You ever get that smoker @kidwoo? Better get punching all that Tahoe windfall.

 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
That looks scary

I got it, but I've been waiting on a shock rebuild. It started puking oil on the first ride. I just got it back so hopefully riding this weekend. I also need to rejet it for elevation. It runs all rich and spoogy.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,838
4,881
Champery, Switzerland
2 Live Crew had some good training tips for manuals. Just switch the face with the ass part and you should be good to go.


But really, if you keep your butt low and rearward while keeping your head up then it’s a lot easier to balance and keep the wheel up. To slow down when it’s steep and you’re accelerating you can lean back too far and drag the brake. But really the biggest thing for me is face up ass down.... and back.


Getting to that right turn at the end has eluded me for years.
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,064
10,627
AK
I took Ryan Leech's 30 day challenge to avoid killing my son with a chainsaw during the mandatory Covid19 isolation. Best invested time in many years. I can now maintain a good cadence through my whole backyard (about 25 meters, or 80 feet in nutjob units). I reckon I was one of those justifying themselves by telling we were born without the wheelie gene, and I have to agree with @OGRipper here. It's just lack of commitment.

Now I'm focusing on bump jumps/hops, something I really enjoyed back when street riding was a thing in the early 2000s and I kinda forgot after getting used to long(er) travel dual suspension bikes. Getting the timing and momentum right every single time felt wonderful back when I was younger, so re-learning the skills is a really good driver.
I remember like 15-ish years ago trying to bunny hop on platforms...nothing happening. I've done a ton of upper and mid-body work and rock climbing since then. Even during that short stint where I tried the flats for wheelie-practice, I was a little surprised how well my bunny hops were, for no real practice, ever. That "punch" thing is interesting. I don't have a lot of use for it, but I have used something similar. When it gets to the bigger stuff, like most things, it seems to be about commitment and practice. THAT'S where I'd want flats, to bail off the bike if necessary. Maybe I'll try to master that during COVID-20.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,943
21,973
Sleazattle
Moving from Virginia to Washington has been a huge progression for me. For 20 years I rode trails that were fun but not very steep, no drops or jumps due to strong roadie culture and bad liability laws. Now I have magical dirt, steep as fuck trails with actual drops and jumps. It's not really a skills thing but still working on confidence and where the edge of the envelope is.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,064
10,627
AK
Moving from Virginia to Washington has been a huge progression for me. For 20 years I rode trails that were fun but not very steep, no drops or jumps due to strong roadie culture and bad liability laws. Now I have magical dirt, steep as fuck trails with actual drops and jumps. It's not really a skills thing but still working on confidence and where the edge of the envelope is.
Yeah, that's got to be a radical change. I love going to WA because there's so much quality stuff. Not just the stuff that is crowded and over-used, but even trails out in the middle of nowhere that you link together on Trailforks, there's great quality stuff all over the state in many different climates. WA is one state where they "get it".
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,943
21,973
Sleazattle
Yeah, that's got to be a radical change. I love going to WA because there's so much quality stuff. Not just the stuff that is crowded and over-used, but even trails out in the middle of nowhere that you link together on Trailforks, there's great quality stuff all over the state in many different climates. WA is one state where they "get it".

Unfortunately the season is super short, but I love the back country trails out here. I enjoy the process of picking out a line on a trail not meant for bikes.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,503
1,719
Warsaw :/
That was my plan but they closed parks and basically said GTFO with your bike. Now it changed so I'm going for manuals too. Wanted to teach the GF cornering but she got injured and can't ride her bike
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,666
1,651
NorCack
Cool seeing guys learn the wheelie thing guess its time I got decent at it too...if you have vids that were helpful post them up!

We've had great weather and obviously a good deal of free time so @jackalope and I made nearly all our jumps bigger this season. Did it partly to push ourselves and partly to filter our at least some of the avalanche of joeys at our trails that were fucking things up all the time riding over their heads, skidding, wrecking lips and landers etc.
IMG_8534.jpg


Still waiting to check this one off. Need to clear the runout and make the lip. Will be among the biggest things we've hit and certainly the biggest we've built.
IMG_8436.jpg
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,064
10,627
AK
Cool seeing guys learn the wheelie thing guess its time I got decent at it too...if you have vids that were helpful post them up!

We've had great weather and obviously a good deal of free time so @jackalope and I made nearly all our jumps bigger this season. Did it partly to push ourselves and partly to filter our at least some of the avalanche of joeys at our trails that were fucking things up all the time riding over their heads, skidding, wrecking lips and landers etc.
View attachment 144027

Still waiting to check this one off. Need to clear the runout and make the lip. Will be among the biggest things we've hit and certainly the biggest we've built.
View attachment 144026
1st one looking good. 2nd one looks..uh...
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,666
1,651
NorCack
1st one looking good. 2nd one looks..uh...
It's not that big but you damn sure don't wanna come up short. Gonna put a decked little "pier" as the take off that will make it a smidge shorter and easier. That tree on the right is not in your line as much as it looks either. Actually think it'll be pretty smooth when all done.
 

Fool

The Thing cannot be described
Sep 10, 2001
2,913
1,665
Brooklyn
I'm that weird old man looping out wheelies in the park while my kid is doing Zoom soccer practice. Haven't improved much. Me, I mean, not him.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,636
26,882
media blackout
People use the terminology pretty loosely but it’s not really a manual if you are sitting down and using your seat for leverage. Manuals are definitely harder for me.
idk if its really that loose. wheelie = pedaling, manual = no pedaling. bmx bikes you can't sit and manual, so its a moot point there.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,636
26,882
media blackout
I'm that weird old man looping out wheelies in the park while my kid is doing Zoom soccer practice. Haven't improved much. Me, I mean, not him.
i'm riding my bmx bike with my kids at the cul de sac around the corner. starting to get manuals back, i can do probably 10-15 feet consistently. i stopped looping out as frequently too.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,732
1,243
NORCAL is the hizzle
idk if its really that loose. wheelie = pedaling, manual = no pedaling. bmx bikes you can't sit and manual, so its a moot point there.
Gotta disagree, coasting a wheelie while sitting and using your seat for leverage is not a manual, it's a coaster wheelie.

Pedantic? Sure, but isn't that part of why we're here? Really it's a distinction borne out of respect for those who can bust out true manuals, which to me are much harder since you're only using hands and feet.

Also, back in the day we had seat posts on our BMX bikes long enough to sit and ride wheelies. True story.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,636
26,882
media blackout
Gotta disagree, coasting a wheelie while sitting and using your seat for leverage is not a manual, it's a coaster wheelie.

Pedantic? Sure, but isn't that part of why we're here? Really it's a distinction borne out of respect for those who can bust out true manuals, which to me are much harder since you're only using hands and feet.

Also, back in the day we had seat posts on our BMX bikes long enough to sit and ride wheelies. True story.
It's called a manual because you're manually balancing the bike on the rear wheel. Even if you're using the seat. Sitting down while manualling is still manualling, just a shitty way of doing it.

With wheelies you're using pedaling force to keep the front wheel up.
 
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OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,732
1,243
NORCAL is the hizzle
Rider does a manual, throws in a couple small pedal kicks to keep the wheel up - is that now a wheelie because he pedaled?

Over here yelling at clouds but still, you're not gonna change my mind on this one. Use whatever terminology you like and I'll do the same.