Progression

slyfink · Sep 23, 2020

Have you guys watched the cornering videos coming out of Squamish/Whistler?

I found these two insightful (but I think they're from the same coach)

I'm riding less these days because I don't commute to work anymore, but I've also spent more time on my dirt jumper at the pump track and indoor park. I've found my jumping game has really taken off.... :rimshot:

Jeremy R · Sep 23, 2020

My riding is following more of a linear to regressive curve.

jonKranked · Sep 23, 2020

Jeremy R said:
My riding is following more of a linear to regressive curve.

"the older i get the faster i was"

ebarker9 · Sep 23, 2020

slyfink said:
Have you guys watched the cornering videos coming out of Squamish/Whistler?

I found these two insightful (but I think they're from the same coach)

I'm riding less these days because I don't commute to work anymore, but I've also spent more time on my dirt jumper at the pump track and indoor park. I've found my jumping game has really taken off....

I thought those were interesting. Not sure that Kasper Woolley is necessarily the best person to articulate some of the concepts, but just watching some of the drills is helpful. There's also the suggestion of pressuring the outside hand that I'd never really heard previously. Something to play around with.

Jeremy R · Sep 23, 2020

jonKranked said:
"the older i get the faster i was"

When you are younger, you work to get faster. When you are older, you work hard to be the same speed you were last year. Or you can just shrug your shoulders and ride for fun. (raises hand)

jonKranked · Sep 23, 2020

Jeremy R said:
When you are younger, you work to get faster. When you are older, you work hard to be the same speed you were last year. Or you can just shrug your shoulders and ride for fun. (raises hand)

for me fast is fun, and i've found i need to keep a better baseline of fitness to keep that up.

bdamschen · Aug 27, 2021

Jeremy R said:
When you are younger, you work to get faster. When you are older, you work hard to be the same speed you were last year. Or you can just shrug your shoulders and ride for fun. (raises hand)

A few years back my dad bumped up to an 70+ old guy baseball team. I was watching one of his games for father's day when one of the older team mates came up to me.

"You know what I told your dad in his first game with us?"
"what?"
"Enjoy playing today, because it's the best your ever going to be from now on."

Ouch. I'm pretty sure I'm over the mountain bike hump of that.

dump · Aug 27, 2021

bdamschen said:
A few years back my dad bumped up to an 70+ old guy baseball team. I was watching one of his games for father's day when one of the older team mates came up to me.

"You know what I told your dad in his first game with us?"
"what?"
"Enjoy playing today, because it's the best your ever going to be from now on."

Ouch. I'm pretty sure I'm over the mountain bike hump of that.

I think the trick is to enjoy it, no matter how you ride/play. Constantly comparing will only lead to disappointment and a search for the elusive (or an ebike)… and what’s the fun in that?

bdamschen · Aug 27, 2021

dump said:
I think the trick is to enjoy it, no matter how you ride/play. Constantly comparing will only lead to disappointment and a search for the elusive (or an ebike)… and what’s the fun in that?

Yeah, I agree. I've got a 4 year old and a 1 year old. At this point, my main motivation is to be able to ride with them(and not suck at it) as they grow up. I can always be fit, but I definitely find myself riding gnarly trails at 80% rather than 100% just to try and keep myself from getting broke off less than I used to.

The upside is new bikes are so good now that I'm still going faster down my favorite trails than I did back when I was "fast".

bullcrew · Aug 27, 2021

My god it's like reading a sad monologue for being an adult....and justifying it lol..like ridemonkey lifetime tv....

Nope! Bigger faster harder...I tell my kids if you do something try and do 1 thing per event that scares you or pushes your comfort zone...them it's a successful run...do it enough times and your comfort zone will be big.
I live by this as well..

bdamschen · Aug 27, 2021

bullcrew said:
My god it's like reading a sad monologue for being an adult....and justifying it lol..like ridemonkey lifetime tv....

Nope! Bigger faster harder...I tell my kids if you do something try and do 1 thing per event that scares you or pushes your comfort zone...them it's a successful run...do it enough times and your comfort zone will be big.
I live by this as ...

I'll probably go harder when my 1-year-old gets bigger and more autonomous. RIght now I still gotta be able to carry him around without being a gimp or my wife will have my head.

dump · Aug 27, 2021

bullcrew said:
My god it's like reading a sad monologue for being an adult....and justifying it lol..like ridemonkey lifetime tv....

Nope! Bigger faster harder...I tell my kids if you do something try and do 1 thing per event that scares you or pushes your comfort zone...them it's a successful run...do it enough times and your comfort zone will be big.
I live by this as ...

Keep at it then I say! Soon you’ll have a 29er ebike.

bullcrew · Aug 27, 2021

dump said:
Keep at it then I say! Soon you’ll have a 29er ebike.

I do want an e-bike lol.... Get to go DH'n on way up and way down.... I tried to be more cautious and docile ....all it did was lead to depression...realized I may not go massive red bull style (I want to lol) but I push and without chasing the dragon I have a void that I can't fill..
Dr. Told me I need to realize I will slow down and I need to find a way to embrace it. people with this drive don't do well when life slows down....I tried but life was shit, I really do not want to grow old...

dump · Aug 27, 2021

bullcrew said:
Dr. Told me I need to realize I will slow down and I need to find a way to embrace it. people with this drive don't do well when life slows down....I tried but life was shit, I really do not want to grow old...

It will definitely happen, and sometimes in expected ways. Seeing this now with my folks. Even things like hearing can be incredibly disruptive. Until then, keep doing why you’re doing!

bullcrew · Aug 27, 2021

bdamschen said:
I'll probably go harder when my 1-year-old gets bigger and more autonomous. RIght now I still gotta be able to carry him around without being a gimp or my wife will have my head.

Crashed on intense trail off a stepdown went over cliff, cartwheeled. .ripped my right shoulder out and collar bone...ripped all tendons and muscles from neck to shoulder..I have a massive gap on neck ...

Kai was 6 months old and had to hold him with left arm. He came to work with me at my shop did signs and graphics with left arm for 6 weeks...
It's a PIA....

dump said:
It will definitely happen, and sometimes in expected ways. Seeing this now with my folks. Even things like hearing can be incredibly disruptive. Until then, keep doing why you’re doing!

Always..
Embrace every moment and do all you can while you can.
No regret....

Andeh · Aug 30, 2021

Yeah, getting older doesn't mean you should give up on being a better rider, even if you define better as faster. Most of what makes good riders fast is cornering skills and line choice. Nothing about getting old prevents you from you from refining body position and moving the bikes. Sure, you've got more years of bad habits to overcome but it's still possible. Better yet, since you start slow and add speed as the body movements become more second nature, it's not a high consequence mode of progression.

Jumping, yeah, it's intimidating. But you can still get better at it. I started riding in my mid-30s, and didn't do BMX/motocross as a kid, so I've got no jumping background. But at 40, even with plenty of fear of heights and an over abundance of self-preservation, I'm still slowly working on improving it. Again, if you start with fundamental movements and work on refining them gradually, you can scale up at a safe pace.

I mean, yeah, of course there's going to be some point in the future where every lap up or down a certain trail will be slower than my best, or every jump a bit smaller. But I think that's a lot further out than what people assume it to be. Progression (be it strength, coordination, whatever) seems to ebb and flow. Some days I'm not as fast as my strongest days, but even my worst rides now are better than my best ones when I started out.

Gary · Aug 30, 2021

Andeh said:
Most of what makes good riders fast is cornering skills and line choice. Nothing about getting old prevents you from you from refining body position and moving the bikes.

Until fairly recently I never used to understand why so many previously fast riders slowed down as they approached mid 40s and later. Now I am well past that myself I can attest to arthritis, poor mobility due to old injuries and deminishing eyesight and memory loss being fairly preventitive to going as fast as I could 20 years ago.
Progression aint dead yet for sure but DH race speed through dappled or poorly lit tight forest or riding full DH days back to back has sadly become a thing of the past for me now. Even memorising a whole DH track these days is beyond me and that was something I was really pretty good at.
Oh to be 40 again.

bullcrew · Aug 30, 2021

Lol I never memorize a track... I want too and I try but when they say "Go" it goes alright.. right the hell out of my ear and I forget it....I ride alot on reaction cause of it...it's also why I strap a zip tie to my helmet and chew on it during a race.
.it allows me to chill a bit...
Done that since my mx days, cornering is king and I'm pushing my manualing since I seem to have forgotten how to effectively hold one after 6 years...
Practice, practice, practice....don't rush...find your center and get comfortable...learn to load front and skip rear around, loosen rear and whip and push ass in berms...manual out of some to transition...I watch the guys at wc level and ride with a few...I am mimicking them more, it's not as fluid as when we were younger but it's still totally doable and gains are everywhere...
I just want to progress no matter how small it is, I like adding to the tool box of skills

Gary · Aug 30, 2021

bullcrew said:
cornering is king

Kinda helps string a decent run together when you actually remember where they are and even better if you can remember the set-up lines in and out of them though..
My mannies and wheelies are still good as I ride in and out of the city 4 days a week and that's what I love doing through traffic. I really don't need sharp eyesight or memory for those though.

bullcrew · Aug 30, 2021

Gary said:
Kinda helps string a decent run together when you actually remember where they are and even better if you can remember the set-up lines in and out of them though..
My mannies and wheelies are still good as I ride in and out of the city 4 days a week and that's what I love doing through traffic. I really don't need sharp eyesight or memory for those though.

That's cool you commute like that in the city....I'd like too but we live in north county San Diego...
Always wanted too we skated downtown Seattle...lots of good handrails and drops, gaps, stairs...learn to hookybob on cars to get pulled up the hills...
That's a great way to have "you time" and bike handling skills... jealous....

I remember some corners and drops rocks etc especially if I have to gap a big one or 2 and clear a stretch...but the rest is a blurr...

Eye sight thankfully I haven't lost and hearing is as good as ever..after kids it's even better I perfected selective hearing and can tune em out...

I've gotten so good I can tune the wife out too...with her I use brail hearing...I hear little bumps of words here and there , enough to cover my ass when she says I'm not listening...I drop one or 2 words and it seems official I was listening.

Haven't learned to remember the bits later, that's when I get caught...

toodles · Aug 30, 2021

Gary said:
Oh to be 40 again.

I'm only 42, but I started racing back in '96 and I've had a string of fractures and injuries that have made it more and more annoying. The hands are terrible, I was experimenting with grips for awhile before I found some that worked. Now I've got elbow tendinitis (wanker's elbow) and I have to wear a brace thingy or it hurts like hell.

My track memory has always been shit - I used to just focus on the remembering the bigger features or nasty surprises and just wing the rest as for race runs.

Got a couple of friends who had severe concussions - glad I'm not on that boat. They seem to have the worst issues.

djjohnr · Aug 30, 2021

Almost 45 and a good amount of broken bones, torn ligaments, torn muscles, arthritis, herniated discs etc. The worst by far though are the headaches I get from the degeneration/arthritis in my neck. I've had a stiff neck since my 20s, which turned into headaches in my 30s. The ones I get are migraine bad - ie out of commission until the muscle relaxers can do their thing in ~8 hours. Found out last year that I'd broken my neck decades ago. My guess is either rag dolling on the snowboard or a car accident - was in a car that flipped at 60 landing on the roof and it collapsed on my head. These days it takes muscle relaxers, working out, weekly chiro and massage to keep me riding.

bullcrew · Aug 31, 2021

48 now and take pride in being durable...
Have yet to be knocked out and walked away from everyone of these injuries.

3rd broken back was when I first got on RM..Last was a few years ago.
Not all riding, alot are. One was a drunk driver hit me on my bike at 70...that one totalled my body when I was 12...raced motor cross, fought for several years, ran with Tongans and Samoans so lots of hard hits...
8 concussion, 3 cracked skull, 9+ broken noses, cheek bone, jaw, few broken wrists, 2 compound fractures, broke ankles, ribs, toes, fingers, blown knee, broken tail bone, sparrow fractured whole right arm (over 160 breaks dr counted) with compound fracture,.
loss of memory and a TBI from shattering helmet ..that's when I disappeared 6 years ago. I lost equilibrium, memory, extremely angry quick... pituitary gland shut down some chemistry.
Ripped calf muscle and broke a wrist in strength competitions couple years ago....still got podium on both occurrences.

Kept waking up both surgeries Dr said I was the toughest sob he's done surgery on..I'd get up they would ask me to lay down I'd say ok they would try and put me under...he had to come tell my wife...lol
8 hour surgery on nose, peeled it back pulled sceptum out said it looked like stained glass it had been shatters so many time...
Have 1 more surgery for ear cartilage to be put in nose to flare it open so I can breath when I compete.

bullcrew · Aug 31, 2021

djjohnr said:
These days it takes working out, weekly chiro and massage to keep me riding.

This is great advice to those with injuries and those who just want to perform or get better on all physical aspects....

Working out and running has been a savior...100% on this with you..
when l I find aches...
We use a compex gun and tens therapy to break down stuff . Don't ever do muscle relaxers or pain pills.
But man a good stretch...

Happymtb.fr · Aug 31, 2021

toodles said:
Got a couple of friends who had severe concussions - glad I'm not on that boat. They seem to have the worst issues.

Concussion sucks! I crashed 5,5 years ago and I still have issues with headaches, issues with concentration, low stress threshold and mild depression on top of that... I am still not able to work full time yet!
I crashed in a ramp riding bmx, went down head first and didn't use my hands/arms to help absorb the impact. I kind of wish I did and broke my wrist and/or collar bones, it would have been a matter of months, not years, before being back.

bullcrew · Aug 31, 2021

Happymtb.fr said:
Concussion sucks! I crashed 5,5 years ago and I still have issues with headaches, issues with concentration, low stress threshold and mild depression on top of that... I am still not able to work full time yet!
I crashed in a ramp riding bmx, went down head first and didn't use my hands/arms to help absorb the impact. I kind of wish I did and broke my wrist and/or collar bones, it would have been a matter of months, not years, before being back.

Head injuries can be serious business. Glad it's not worse....not glad it left after effects for you.
You are right...
Depression, PTSD, blurred vision, memory loss, forgetfulness, raised stress and blurred vision, occasional nausea all go hand in hand....(all of the above) don't forget occasional anxiety.

Happymtb.fr · Aug 31, 2021

@bullcrew
Men, that sucks!
And you wrote "blurred vision" twice, was it to stress out memory loss? :brows:

All in all, it is important to have fun despite the limitations! :cheers:

Andeh · Aug 31, 2021

I'm lucky enough not to have had many real serious injuries (only one concussion while trying surfing, a dislocated shoulder and stitches a couple times). But some of my best riding buddies are older (50ish & 60ish) and are still killing it despite taking a beating now and then. The guy in his 50s has more than his share of damage (including new knee from getting it crushed in the Marines by a tank), and the guy in his 60s got some internal injuries just a couple years ago taking a spill on a rocky trail. We all have different risk/reward tolerances and riding styles, but they are definitely an inspiration to me that I can still ride fun shit fast even 20 years from now.

The guy with the most damage (the 50s ex-Marine) says he does an hour of stretching/light calisthenics each morning, and says whenever he sits around inactive for more than a couple days he starts to hurt.

bullcrew · Aug 31, 2021

Happymtb.fr said:
@bullcrew
Men, that sucks!
And you wrote "blurred vision" twice, was it to stress out memory loss?

All in all, it is important to have fun despite the limitations!

What! What!
One one for for both both eyes eyes

toodles · Aug 31, 2021

Happymtb.fr said:
Concussion sucks! I crashed 5,5 years ago and I still have issues with headaches, issues with concentration, low stress threshold and mild depression on top of that... I am still not able to work full time yet!

Yeah one of the girls has given up on DH and enduro now and just does trail and gravel. She gets concussion symptoms again from hard G-outs and small drops so she just can't do it anymore.

On the progression side of things, I'm still learning new stuff. I can wheelie pretty well and do those coaster wheelies (seated, no pedalling) but I've been working on proper manuals a fair bit lately. A bunch of my mates got trials bikes during lockdowns and have set up pallet courses in the backyard so that's become a bit of a weekly ritual for us all. Happy to mix it up a bit and try new shit.

Udi · Sep 1, 2021

toodles said:
Got a couple of friends who had severe concussions - glad I'm not on that boat. They seem to have the worst issues.

waTHETEVER TOodolz
meE biiek GOOoD

Happymtb.fr · Sep 1, 2021

toodles said:
Happy to mix it up a bit and try new shit.

I tend to forget that, thanks for the reminder :cheers:

Westy · Sep 1, 2021

toodles said:
Now I've got elbow tendinitis (wanker's elbow) and I have to wear a brace thingy or it hurts like hell.

If you are still having elbow problems it probably has progressed to tendonosis. I am just getting over tendonosis after thinking I had tendonitis. Rest, Ice and anti-inflammatories didn't do shit. Hard painful eccentric exercises are required to fix it. From what I understand tendonosis is when the tendon fibers heal in a random and tangled mess. Need to basically tear them again and get them to heal nice and straight again. The eccentric exercises do this, look up "tyler twist", it did wonders for me.

toodles · Sep 1, 2021

Udi said:
waTHETEVER TOodolz
meE biiek GOOoD

You at Thredbo dude. Fuck - you didn't know what fucken day it was. That was a proper hard slam mate.

Westy said:
If you are still having elbow problems it probably has progressed to tendonosis. I am just getting over tendonosis after thinking I had tendonitis. Rest, Ice and anti-inflammatories didn't do shit. Hard painful eccentric exercises are required to fix it. From what I understand tendonosis is when the tendon fibers heal in a random and tangled mess. Need to basically tear them again and get them to heal nice and straight again. The eccentric exercises do this, look up "tyler twist", it did wonders for me.

Cheers, I'll look it up. I've been to a few physios now. The last one reckons the best thing I could do now is break that arm so I can't use it at all and let it heal properly.

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