[Cant Climb]

It seems like you have some bad blood with the DB. Just because he wants a DB doesn't mean he has to have a legitimate reason. I'm getting ready to sell my DHX for one, so what? I like everything I've heard about it and want to try it out. big deal.

I have no bad bad blood with DB.

Was just wondering why this shock is so great and how thoose conclusions are drawn. No one has offered anything yet.......if its just pimpness then so be it.....if others want to dig deeper they can call Cane Creek then i guess......

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

Combining ideas presented in this thread:
1) better damping curve
2) less heat build up
3) adjustability, especially appealing (IMO) two stage rebound allowing speedy rebound in the low speed to keep the wheel glued to the ground, but slow rebound on the high speed so you don't get bucked on hard hits.
4) cool pivoting mounts designed to reduce side loading on the shock

It just seems well thought out and, even in absence of practical experience with the shock, the ideas are good ones worthy of trying out at least in the opinions of some here.

 

[jackalope]

Well said Mike...Although I think in light of the 4 reasons presented above, a 5th can be add:

* It'll be so good, that poor bastards like me will have a ready made excuse as to why we didn't get on the podium...To wit - "Damn this DHX, if I had a Double B, I'da sailed through that rock garden 2 seconds faster and beaten Motomike"...(Actually, in my case, it'd need to make me a couple minutes faster to beat Moto...But that's what Troy and his pipe wrench are for)

 

[Cant Climb]

Combining ideas presented in this thread:
1) better damping curve
2) less heat build up
3) adjustability, especially appealing (IMO) two stage rebound allowing speedy rebound in the low speed to keep the wheel glued to the ground, but slow rebound on the high speed so you don't get bucked on hard hits.
4) cool pivoting mounts designed to reduce side loading on the shock

not really much proof here......nothing is empirical......sounds like a good advertisement though.....

 

[motomike]

so what is it gonna take to convince you?

 

[Dogboy]

not really much proof here......nothing is empirical......sounds like a good advertisement though.....

I can't recall any suspension manufacturer EVER offering empirical data about the superiority of their product. However, suspension continues to improve year after year. How could that be?

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

Where are you getting this? The damping curve on a dyno and the shock temp are fully empirical as in these are quantifiable data collected on both the DB and other shocks (a dhx unless I'm mistaken) for purposes of comparison. It doesn't get more empirical than that.

As far as the two stage rebound and the pivoting shock mounts, it is a fact that these are available on the shock, whether they are helpful is up for debate. You asked why people were psyched on the DB. I answered. Some of it was empirical and some of it was just logical. None of it was BS like "I bounced on it and it felt smooth." What?

 

[Pat Lovro]

Well, if Progressive has ceased production, I guess I'm out a job. I'm here at the Hesperia, CA facility and our lights are on and shock after shock are going down the production line. Unless someone out there knows more than we here at Progressive Suspension, looks like we're doing our thing, as we have been all along ?
Just because we decided to enforce our warranty processing procedure/policy and streamline our worldwide authorized warranty servicing centers does not constitute the immediate assumption by one and all that we're "going out of business". You ALL have too much spare time on your hands to be feeding the rumor mill. Why not focus on getting ready for the new riding season instead? BTW: my name is Pat and I am the Director of Sales at Progressive.

 

[zedro]

Where are you getting this? The damping curve on a dyno and the shock temp are fully empirical as in these are quantifiable data collected on both the DB and other shocks (a dhx unless I'm mistaken) for purposes of comparison. It doesn't get more empirical than that.

unfortunatly the interpretation of that data is not. It's not like the machine prints out a grade of double-plus-good, it's upto the experience of the tuners. Granted some behavior is obvious, but one tuner may prefer some overshot to maximize responsiveness and others may prefer to overdamp...just like the racers preferences themselves.

What is sure though is proper hi/low speed rebound is the next step, and actually a pretty basic concept that the mtb market just hasent addressed yet (i guess simple port damping does accomplish this to some degree, but its not very controlled).

 

[motomike]

Well, if Progressive has ceased production, I guess I'm out a job. I'm here at the Hesperia, CA facility and our lights are on and shock after shock are going down the production line. Unless someone out there knows more than we here at Progressive Suspension, looks like we're doing our thing, as we have been all along ?
Just because we decided to enforce our warranty processing procedure/policy and streamline our worldwide authorized warranty servicing centers does not constitute the immediate assumption by one and all that we're "going out of business". You ALL have too much spare time on your hands to be feeding the rumor mill. Why not focus on getting ready for the new riding season instead? BTW: my name is Pat and I am the Director of Sales at Progressive.

Hi Pat, thanks for settling this and showing us that you guys care about the consumers and look at the forums.

 

[dhbuilder]

Well, if Progressive has ceased production, I guess I'm out a job. I'm here at the Hesperia, CA facility and our lights are on and shock after shock are going down the production line. Unless someone out there knows more than we here at Progressive Suspension, looks like we're doing our thing, as we have been all along ?
Just because we decided to enforce our warranty processing procedure/policy and streamline our worldwide authorized warranty servicing centers does not constitute the immediate assumption by one and all that we're "going out of business". You ALL have too much spare time on your hands to be feeding the rumor mill. Why not focus on getting ready for the new riding season instead? BTW: my name is Pat and I am the Director of Sales at Progressive.

how long have you been sitting back watching this thread grow ?

all this from a euro-rumor.

too funny.

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

unfortunatly the interpretation of that data is not. It's not like the machine prints out a grade of double-plus-good, it's upto the experience of the tuners.

I am well aware of the difference between data and a conclusion. Funny about the "double plus good"...I'll have to try to incorporate that into my data in the lab...I can see it now--"and here we show that treatment of cells with compound X results in a double-plus-good phenotype...." Sorry about the science nerd humor.

Anyhow, I don't think anyone here is saying the DB is definitely the best thing in the universe, just that there are some good ideas incorporated into its design, and the fact that Cant Climb does not know what empirical means.

 

[jackalope]

^^
Dr. Chuck Norris in the house

 

[ChrisKring]

how long have you been sitting back watching this thread grow ?

all this from a euro-rumor.

too funny.

I called Progressive this morning after seeing the thread. I left a message with Mike (marketing) and with Gerald (R&D). I am sure other people probably did the same thing.

That is why people shouldn't go crazy with these rumors. A thread like this can cause real damage to a company.

On a side note, I have been running 5th Element shocks since 2002. I have trialed other shocks and I am still happy I am riding a 5th Element.

 

[klunky]

Well, if Progressive has ceased production, I guess I'm out a job. I'm here at the Hesperia, CA facility and our lights are on and shock after shock are going down the production line. Unless someone out there knows more than we here at Progressive Suspension, looks like we're doing our thing, as we have been all along ?
Just because we decided to enforce our warranty processing procedure/policy and streamline our worldwide authorized warranty servicing centers does not constitute the immediate assumption by one and all that we're "going out of business". You ALL have too much spare time on your hands to be feeding the rumor mill. Why not focus on getting ready for the new riding season instead? BTW: my name is Pat and I am the Director of Sales at Progressive.

Hi Pat,

Glad to see you cleared that up.

I would like to know why I can no longer send my 5th shocks to TF tuned for warranty though. I have 2 bikes both pretty new if I blow a seal on them it will cost me £80 to send it to you in the USA.

It will cost me £60 to have tim flooks service it.

As im sure you can see - financialy this effectively means I have no warranty because I live in the uk which sucks eggs.

IMO it also means there will be a huge shift in progressive shock units to another brand on OEM bikes being sold in the U.K.

 

[ChrisKring]

Well, if Progressive has ceased production, I guess I'm out a job. I'm here at the Hesperia, CA facility and our lights are on and shock after shock are going down the production line. Unless someone out there knows more than we here at Progressive Suspension, looks like we're doing our thing, as we have been all along ?
Just because we decided to enforce our warranty processing procedure/policy and streamline our worldwide authorized warranty servicing centers does not constitute the immediate assumption by one and all that we're "going out of business". You ALL have too much spare time on your hands to be feeding the rumor mill. Why not focus on getting ready for the new riding season instead? BTW: my name is Pat and I am the Director of Sales at Progressive.

Pat

Thanks for clearing things up. You are always welcome to contribute here. Even if it's off topic or bench racing. When Larry Langley was at Progressive, he was a regular poster.

 

[Cant Climb]

and the fact that Cant Climb does not know what empirical means.

i asked a question of magnitude....to quantify that there has be numbers associated not just "its better".....with numbers its emipirical.....

 

[jackalope]

So you want CC to publish their results?

 

[meatboot]

.....with numbers its emipirical.....

LOL

 

[Cant Climb]

LOL

you're right.....i just looked in the dictionary !

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

i asked a question of magnitude....to quantify that there has be numbers associated not just "its better".....with numbers its emipirical.....

Like the numbers associated with shock temperature (usually a number) or the smoothness of a damping curve (which can be expressed as a number as well)?

 

[Cant Climb]

Like the numbers associated with shock temperature (usually a number) or the smoothness of a damping curve (which can be expressed as a number as well)?

....the numbers i would like to see is monkeys do a series of DH runs on a properly set-up DHX then the same set of runs on a DB and see what that $700 got them.....

 

[zedro]

....and see what that $700 got them.....

dont be silly, you can't quantify love...

 

[dw]

So the UK importer of Progressive isnt official enough?

I guess not!

(see the post form Pat@progressive)

I for one am glad to see that this rumor was not true!

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

Agreed, those would be cool numbers to see for a lot of products out there...

 

[Cant Climb]

dont be silly, you can't quantify love...

...lol.

 

[klunky]

Perhaps progressive are looking for a new UK service agent??? either way I would not buy a bike if it had any shock that I could not have warranty work done on it for free.

 

[jungle]

Well, if Progressive has ceased production, I guess I'm out a job. I'm here at the Hesperia, CA facility and our lights are on and shock after shock are going down the production line. Unless someone out there knows more than we here at Progressive Suspension, looks like we're doing our thing, as we have been all along ?
Just because we decided to enforce our warranty processing procedure/policy and streamline our worldwide authorized warranty servicing centers does not constitute the immediate assumption by one and all that we're "going out of business". You ALL have too much spare time on your hands to be feeding the rumor mill. Why not focus on getting ready for the new riding season instead? BTW: my name is Pat and I am the Director of Sales at Progressive.

Thanks Pat , Good to hear that the rumours aren't true
keep up the good work

cheers

 

[Tenacious Doug]

Hi Pat,

Glad to see you cleared that up.

I would like to know why I can no longer send my 5th shocks to TF tuned for warranty though. I have 2 bikes both pretty new if I blow a seal on them it will cost me £80 to send it to you in the USA.

It will cost me £60 to have tim flooks service it.

As im sure you can see - financialy this effectively means I have no warranty because I live in the uk which sucks eggs.

IMO it also means there will be a huge shift in progressive shock units to another brand on OEM bikes being sold in the U.K.

Likewise, fingers crossed I am not going to need to use the warranty on my 5th air however if I do I am up **** creek, sending a shock to the US with insurance to cover it's value is going to be far from economical. Can you shed any light on the current situation with this, whether there is likely to be a warranty agent appointed in or close to the UK in the forseeable future. I certainly would have thought twice about buying a 5th equipped bike if I had known this would be the case 4 months down the line.

 

[WheelieMan]

Thanks Pat , Good to hear that the rumours aren't true
keep up the good work

cheers

Hmm, interesting that he said: "Progressive HAS NOT ceased MTX shock mfg'g"

What about this mounting system on the Double Barrel? Does it use spherical ball joints like the 5th Element air?

 

[trailhacker]

The internet rules...

 

[wysiwyg]

so who pissed on flooksies parade to make him say that...

 

[Bulldog]

It's also based on what I think are appealing features of the DB, such as two stage rebound damping, something no other shock offers.

You might want to clarify between adjustable damping or not. I've been on a Push'ed Vanilla RC with high/low rebound for 3 years now.

 

[al-irl]

....the numbers i would like to see is monkeys do a series of DH runs on a properly set-up DHX then the same set of runs on a DB and see what that $700 got them.....

the $700 gets them knowing nods from apreciative males and the addoration of countless bikini clad females

 

[dhbuilder]

the $700 gets them knowing nods from apreciative males and the addoration of countless bikini clad females

and something that "feels good" between their legs.

 

[Kornphlake]

Well, if Progressive has ceased production, I guess I'm out a job. I'm here at the Hesperia, CA facility and our lights are on and shock after shock are going down the production line. Unless someone out there knows more than we here at Progressive Suspension, looks like we're doing our thing, as we have been all along ?
Just because we decided to enforce our warranty processing procedure/policy and streamline our worldwide authorized warranty servicing centers does not constitute the immediate assumption by one and all that we're "going out of business". You ALL have too much spare time on your hands to be feeding the rumor mill. Why not focus on getting ready for the new riding season instead? BTW: my name is Pat and I am the Director of Sales at Progressive.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've got a soft spot for Progressive, aside from owning a 5th Element shock I grew up in Hesperia, my first job in high school was just down the road from the Progressive factory. I've had 2 interviews for a couple of different positions and one of my best friends has as well (by the way, you guys suck at following up with applicants.) I'd much rather see shops like Progressive, Terry Cable, Romic, Dial Precision etc. succeede. The town really needs what little industry they have, from the looks of the last few years if something big doesn't happen Hesperia will end up just like Barstow, the arm pit of Southern California.

That said, I'm not sure how you guys can keep up with the MTB stuff, is it a division of the company kept around as a hobby for Roy or does it really generate enough money to keep you all in business? As you can see this forum seems more interested in Cane Creek and Fox shocks than Progressive, for this season anyway. I sincerely hope for the future of Progressive's MTB line up that there will be an updated coil over shock released in the next year or so. I'm sure that Progressive could do just fine without MTB, maybe even better by focusing resources on a market that can yield higher margins.

 

[JRB]

hahaha - it pisses sales guys off when you start dumping water on their fire. Good on ya for posting up, Pat.

 

[no skid marks]

Yeah especially when they've not got too much more to burn then they'll put it out themselves.No I'm not fanning the flames.

 

[bikenweed]

Does anyone know if Progressive is still offering the air-for-coil shock trade in program?

 

[Wayne]

I've heard the same through a very reliable source up here.