[-dustin]

do i loosen the spokes evenly, like 3 turns at a time, all the way around the wheel? or do i loosen 1 side, then the other? or do i _________?

while i'm here, does building a wheel with heads in (or however some people build disc-specific wheels) yield a stronger wheel?

 

[SuperSlow]

buy the "bicycle wheel"

by jobst brandt

before building wheels

 

[-dustin]

i know how to build wheels. i just don't know how to un-build them properly, and a friend is borrowing my book, "The Art of Wheelbuilding."

 

[D_D]

I just go around lossening all the spokes a few turns untill the wheek gets slack.
If you are not reusing the spokes the quickest way is just to cut them.

 

[scurban]

Buy new spokes, and nipples, then cut out the old ones with wire cutters! works every time!

 

[pugslybell]

evn if you cut spokes out you still need to loosen spokes. If you cut without loosening you run the very real risk of breaking hub flange

 

[Cash-Money]

or shocking the rim if it has been bent and then trued

 

[zedro]

yeah i would loosen it up a bit too. You only have to do one side tho, like as if you are re-dishing the wheel.

 

[punkassean]

Werd to the above info,

But I too am curios about theories concerning building a disc specific wheel. Jobst's book makes no mention of it but Mavic has a suggested way. What da dilly yo's?

 

[Jm_]

Werd to the above info,

But I too am curios about theories concerning building a disc specific wheel. Jobst's book makes no mention of it but Mavic has a suggested way. What da dilly yo's?

Build it only 3x, brass nipples. Alloy are cool for saving weight, but in the end not worth the hassle when you round them out or break them when trying to tension them.

Straight guage are ok, they will break sooner than butted, which have a little "give" in them. DTs Alpine III spokes are specifically for downhill/tandem/abuse. They are tripple butted spokes. If this is for a freeride or DH bike, the alpine IIIs are a good bet. Competition or the new SuperComps are decent spokes. The spokes and nipples are THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS of your wheel as far as it keeping true and reliable. You can get away with a lot of different rims with the proper spoke tension, but the strongest rim made won't hold up when a few spokes are loose or tensioned improperly.

Also, the only time your really going to have even tension is when it's built for the first time (that's when you do the "pluck" test), after a few hard rides where the wheel takes some serious impacts all bets are off and you have to try and keep as much tension is required to keep it in true, but it probably wont be even anymore, still, keeping the PROPER tension will let your wheels last a long time.

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

What JM said, I need to try the alpine III's, Ive been a hardcore DT comp user forever, and I cant remember ever breaking one on a wheel that I built. I usually build my wheels to slighty higher than recommended tension as well. I used a tensiometer a few times, now I just do it by feel. I had a 521 ceramic with DT comps on the back of my trials bike, rode it for over two years before selling the bike. It endured one or two 9 foot to flat drops, and genarally hard use, with one very minor truing along the way. That wheel outlasted three frames actually.

 

[-dustin]

the only thing that worries me about Alpine IIIs is the altering of the hub. i'd give them a shot on a cheaper hub, to see how they held up, but i generally prefer WS DB14s. their $.60 price is a bonus, as well.

 

[Jm_]

the only thing that worries me about Alpine IIIs is the altering of the hub. i'd give them a shot on a cheaper hub, to see how they held up, but i generally prefer WS DB14s. their $.60 price is a bonus, as well.

Ive used them on white industries and shimano hubs, and no "modification" was necessary.

Some hubs will require slight reaming to make them work, but it's "slight".

 

[scurban]

anyone else hate lacing up wheels? I've baught entirely new wheels when I'll I've needed is a rim because I did not want to re lace...........

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention above loosen up the spokes a bit before you take the wire cutters to them.

 

[Dartman]

Jobst and others on rec.bicycles.tech have determined it doesn't really matter which way the spokes go when building disc wheels. Lennard Zinn covers this subject in his book Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance 2nd Edition. I haven't been able to figure out his discription of the process and just lace 'em up the way I've been doing it. It works just fine.

Check Jobst's reply in thread here

If you are just swapping rims. Line up the valve holes and tape the two rims together. Start moving spokes one at a time, starting with the spokes that are on top of the lacing pattern. (It'll be every fourth spoke then.) Use new nipples.

Yes, loosen the spokes first before cutting. You may break the flange but the spoke can shoot out of the rim like an bolt from a crossbow.

Mike

 

[punkassean]

Jobst and others on rec.bicycles.tech have determined it doesn't really matter which way the spokes go when building disc wheels. ...and just lace 'em up the way I've been doing it. It works just fine.

Mike

That's what I've been doing also, cool.

Q: > I recently read that Barnett's Bicycle Manual recommends a certain
> spoke orientation for wheels with disc hubs. They state that the
> major disc brake manufacturers don't specifically require this
> orientation, but they recommend it. They also note that the
> orientation is what their wheelbuilding instructions follow.
> I recently had a wheelset built up for disc brakes (700c wheels, if
> it makes a difference), and the spoke orientation appears to not
> follow Barnett's recommendations, if I understand them correctly.
> Is it common to follow these recommendations? What's the likely
> outcome for wheels with reversed orientation - going out of true?
> broken spokes? Spokes pulling through the rim? Nuclear war?

A: No, and no. Spoke orientation is an old bugaboo, similar to ankling,
that also has no merit.

Q: > Here's the blurb from chapter 37 about disc brakes:
> "The recommended cross patterns are limited to 3x and4x.
> Deceleration can occur much more rapidly than acceleration, so
> consequently the torsional loads from deceleration are much higher
> than those generated during acceleration. The recommended cross
> patterns are required to transfer the higher torsional loads that
> hub-mounted brakes can generate during rapid deceleration.

A: That is also untrue and has not been analyzed by these folks or they
wouldn't say these things. There is an analysis of this in "the
Bicycle Wheel" that shows what the spoke loads would be for the torque
needed to climb a vertical wall, if that were possible. This was done
mainly so that relative forces could be compared, they all being the
weight of rider and bicycle. The forces are small compared to those
that just rolling along on the flat causes the load bearing spokes to
go through.

Q: > "Although Hayes makes no recommendation regarding lacing patterns,
> other manufacturers require that the left-side head-out spokes
> radiate clockwise from the hub and that the right-side head-in
> spokes radiate counterclockwise from the hub. These are the same
> directions that result from following the wheel-lacing instructions
> in this manual. The vernacular terms for these patterns are that
> the 'pulling' spokes are "head out" and the "pushing" spokes are
> 'head in'. An alternate term to 'pulling' is 'trailing' and an
> alternate term to 'pushing'" is 'leading'."

A: Yes, its all hocus-pocus. I don't understand why people should
believe this stuff when there no reasons are given why this should be
beneficial and no explanation of how great the forces are.

Jobst Brandt

Thanks for the helpful link

 

[Jm_]

anyone else hate lacing up wheels? I've baught entirely new wheels when I'll I've needed is a rim because I did not want to re lace...........

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention above loosen up the spokes a bit before you take the wire cutters to them.

Yes, it's cool to ride wheels and say, "hey, I built those wheels myself!", but when I have a day where I built like 4 wheels (it's happened before) it gets old after about the first wheel.

 

[Curb Hucker]

anyone else hate lacing up wheels? I've baught entirely new wheels when I'll I've needed is a rim because I did not want to re lace...........

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention above loosen up the spokes a bit before you take the wire cutters to them.

you must be riding complete garbage wheels then

 

[-dustin]

i love building wheels, but i've only done it for myself so far. road wheels for this past summer, and a trials rear wheel.

 

[pugslybell]

i only use alpine three after a wheel has been built up two three times and spoke holes are strating to get a little elongated. their extra size is reassuring. Never break spokes on dh bike, rims just dont last long enough for me.

 

[punkassean]

Build it only 3x, brass nipples. Alloy are cool for saving weight, but in the end not worth the hassle when you round them out or break them when trying to tension them.

I almost completely agree with everything JM said but I am a believer in alloy nips, the save about ~60 grams (every bit helps) and are really not a serious maintenence issue. From my experiences I use plenty of lube/spoke prep and just be sure to get the proper spoke wrench whenever truing. I will agree though that if you don't build/maintain your own wheels or you are just really hard on them brass is the way to go. I like the black brass ones from DT.