[reflux]

This story doesn't pertain to politics, nor is it world news related, but it bothers me nontheless. And some people wonder why there was a problem in the first place?


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2710788

SAN FRANCISCO -- Major League Baseball's players union said Thursday it would challenge a federal appeals court's decision to give prosecutors access to the names and urine samples of about 100 players who tested positive for steroids in 2003.

Donald Fehr, executive director of the Major League Baseball Players Association, said if Wednesday's decision by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals "is allowed to stand, it will effectively repeal the Fourth Amendment for confidential electronic records."

Fehr said he was consulting with union attorneys to "determine what our next step should be in our fight to protect the constitutional rights, including the basic right to privacy, of our members."

Options include asking the San Francisco-based appeals court to rehear the case with the same three judges, petitioning the court to hear the case with 15 judges or appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Any appeal, even if unsuccessful, could delay the government from getting the records for months or more.

...

 

[Reactor]

There that liberal court goes again, next thing you know the president will be wiretappping Americans with otu a warrant or probable cause.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Yep. Im siding with the players union on this one, actually.

 

[LordOpie]

... it bothers me nontheless. And some people wonder why there was a problem in the first place?

elaborate.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Yep. Im siding with the players union on this one, actually.

yeah, me too.
they have the right to private medical records, unless they specifically give them up.

 

[BurlyShirley]

yeah, me too.
they have the right to private medical records, unless they specifically give them up.

Agreed. They gave the samples under the condition that they were anonymous and for survey use only. To go back on that agreement should be illegal, IMO.

 

[JohnE]

Besides, I say let the pro athletes do any type of enhancement they feel they need. Why not? This way Congress wont waste time and money on hearings when there is a war on. Legalize all performance enhancers, remove the stigma of "cheating." A guy I used to train with was a 'roider, and he told me one time "Your body is your own personal chemistry experiment." Let 'em, its their career, and their health later on down the road.
We spent God knows how much $$ and time on this, IN THE MIDST OF THE "WAR ON TERROR"! and we wonder why no one takes us seriously anymore. Where the fvck are our national priorities?

 

[I Are Baboon]

I'd be pissed if I was one of those players. The samples were given under the promise that they were anonymous. The union needs to fight this like hell.

This whole thing is a waste of time anyway. The Feds are hoping this will provide more ammo in bringing up perjury charges against Barry Bonds. By all accounts, the steroids he was using in 2003 were undetectable by MLB's tests, so he probably did not test positive.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Besides, I say let the pro athletes do any type of enhancement they feel they need. Why not? This way Congress wont waste time and money on hearings when there is a war on. Legalize all performance enhancers, remove the stigma of "cheating."

Oh there you go. There's a solution. So any time a young person wants to be a professional athlete, it will be NECESSARY for them to take PED's just to be on the same playing field. Wow. Great idea.

 

[Slugman]

Fvck the players. The agreement they had was with a company - Major League Baseball. If my company turns a blind eye to me snorting cocaine or drinking and driving while on the job, that does not shield me from prosecution from the government.

The athletes are using a substance that was declared illegal by the United States government, so they are open to be prosecuted by said government. Just because they were stupid enough to submit to testing by their company, knowing that MLB was doing it just to appease the public, doesn't mean they are free from prosecution.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Fvck the players. The agreement they had was with a company - Major League Baseball. If my company turns a blind eye to me snorting cocaine or drinking and driving while on the job, that does not shield me from prosecution from the government.

The athletes are using a substance that was declared illegal by the United States government, so they are open to be prosecuted by said government. Just because they were stupid enough to submit to testing by their company, knowing that MLB was doing it just to appease the public, doesn't mean they are free from prosecution.

If your company gives random urine tests, and an employee fails one, do you think it would be acceptable for them to turn the results over to the police and have you prosecuted for drug use even if you were told that such tests were private?

 

[Slugman]

If your company gives random urine tests, and an employee fails one, do you think it would be acceptable for them to turn the results over to the police and have you prosecuted for drug use even if you were told that such tests were private?

If I had testified before congress that I did not... then yes.

 

[I Are Baboon]

If I had testified before congress that I did not... then yes.

The Feds are asking for the results of 100 tests, and I only remember seeing about eight guys go before Congress.

I am all in favor of steroid users getting busted, but I have a real problem with MLB turning over those test results when they were supposed to be anonymous.

 

[Slugman]

To IAB's point - if my company is being investigated, I realize that any promise of anonymity that they made to me is out the door.

MLB didn't voluntarily turn this data over... they are being forced by an ongoing criminal investigation.

Back to BS's post- after thinking about it a bit more, I say YES. If my company promised to keep it anonymous but then found out I was a crack head - they have every right to turn me in.

The other side of it that no one is addressing is that my company would fire my ass. The reason any company test or illegal substance is to take action to dismiss or not hire someone - yet MLB doesn't take appropriate actions, so the government has to step in.

And I still don't are about he players. They knew it was illegal and still decided to use the stuff...

 

[BurlyShirley]

So slugman, how about doctor-patient confidentiality...are you against that? Just out of curiosity...

Personally, these days, I want the gov't as uninvolved in my personal matters as possible. It's bad enough they can track any credit card transaction you make, any book you check out, any country you visit...what business is it of theirs what I do and dont do? Now you want them to be able to seize whatever records they want, regardless of privacy laws set in place? Christ sakes man. What DONT you want the government to have access to?

 

[Silver]

So slugman, how about doctor-patient confidentiality...are you against that? Just out of curiosity...

Personally, these days, I want the gov't as uninvolved in my personal matters as possible. It's bad enough they can track any credit card transaction you make, any book you check out, any country you visit...what business is it of theirs what I do and dont do? Now you want them to be able to seize whatever records they want, regardless of privacy laws set in place? Christ sakes man. What DONT you want the government to have access to?

Hippie. You probably joined the ACLU too, didn't you?

 

[Slugman]

So slugman, how about doctor-patient confidentiality...are you against that? Just out of curiosity...

Personally, these days, I want the gov't as uninvolved in my personal matters as possible. It's bad enough they can track any credit card transaction you make, any book you check out, any country you visit...what business is it of theirs what I do and dont do? Now you want them to be able to seize whatever records they want, regardless of privacy laws set in place? Christ sakes man. What DONT you want the government to have access to?

With my personal doctor - absolutely. But were these test conducted by their personal doctor - I highly doubt that.

They submitted to a testing that was outside of the standard care... and in order for MLB to even see it they had to sign a release, because otherwise MLB couldn't even see it due to doctor/patient confidentiality.

And why shouldn’t the government be able to check up on professional athletes – they are playing in stadiums built with taxpayer money. As a non-fan who’s money has gone to build stadium which they profit from – I say too bad.

There is a HUGE difference between the government checking on me (or you) and public figures. If they choose to be in the public eye – they choose a high level of scrutiny on every aspect of their life.

Don’t like – suck it up princess.

 

[Silver]

And why shouldn’t the government be able to check up on professional athletes – they are playing in stadiums built with taxpayer money. As a non-fan who’s money has gone to build stadium which they profit from – I say too bad.

Bravo! That's the longest, lamest stretch I've seen yet to justify an invasion of privacy.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Bravo! That's the longest, lamest stretch I've seen yet to justify an invasion of privacy.

...and its not like the communities dont profit from the money they put into these stadiums anyway.

 

[bac]

It's all window dressing anyway. Does anyone think the Federal Government is going to wack these "athletes"? There is no way. They will bust Joe Smoe for smoking a joint, but Barry Bonds with his 5x head size will walk again.

It's not about the drugs, it's about the money.

 

[Silver]

...and its not like the communities dont profit from the money they put into these stadiums anyway.

That's another issue...But if we're going to invade the privacy of every employee that works for a company that receives corporate welfare, 90% better line up to take a piss for Uncle Sam.

 

[reflux]

I completely forgot ot check this thread. Interesting arguments. There's not much more I can add to what has already been written, but I will try nontheless. I must still side with the government on this issue for one reason above all others: MLB,the union, and the players have an obligation to live up to their duty as role models and trend-setters. By indrectly permitting the usage of illegal substances in the system, MLB is reneging(sp?) on that duty. What choice has MLB given the government? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't MLB have a monopoly exemption from the government? Give a child an inch, they take a mile. At some point, the parent needs to bring in the leash and take out the leather belt.

Somewhat on topic: the girl I'm currently dating was an NFL cheerleader for 3 years. She has told me that since that job, virtually no sports news comes of surprise to her, be it drugs (coke, sterroids...), sex, guns, and so on. The most surprising to me so far: Kurt Warner cheats (or cheated?) on his wife, and his wife looks even less attractive in person (okay, that part was surprising).

 

[Silver]

The most surprising to me so far: Kurt Warner cheats (or cheated?) on his wife, and his wife looks even less attractive in person (okay, that part was surprising).

Why is that surprising? Because he's a Jesus freak? He just has to ask for forgiveness and all is well. Being a Christian is fun!

 

[BurlyShirley]

I completely forgot ot check this thread. Interesting arguments. There's not much more I can add to what has already been written, but I will try nontheless. I must still side with the government on this issue for one reason above all others: MLB,the union, and the players have an obligation to live up to their duty as role models and trend-setters. By indrectly permitting the usage of illegal substances in the system, MLB is reneging(sp?) on that duty. What choice has MLB given the government? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't MLB have a monopoly exemption from the government? Give a child an inch, they take a mile. At some point, the parent needs to bring in the leash and take out the leather belt.

Somewhat on topic: the girl I'm currently dating was an NFL cheerleader for 3 years. She has told me that since that job, virtually no sports news comes of surprise to her, be it drugs (coke, sterroids...), sex, guns, and so on. The most surprising to me so far: Kurt Warner cheats (or cheated?) on his wife, and his wife looks even less attractive in person (okay, that part was surprising).

 

[reflux]

Why is that surprising? Because he's a Jesus freak? He just has to ask for forgiveness and all is well. Being a Christian is fun!

All joking aside, I find it incredibly disappointing that another high-profile Christian is a POS. I have been re-examining my own belief system over the past month or so, and it is difficult to reconsider associating myself with such people.

Meh. Life lesson? The only person you can truly trust is yourself?

 

[reflux]

Victoria is NOT her real name.

http://www.azcardinals.com/cheerleaders/weekly_detail.php?PRKey=29

 

[Silver]

All joking aside, I find it incredibly disappointing that another high-profile Christian is a POS.

Actually, I wasn't joking. At all. He more than likely believes that asking Jesus for forgiveness is all he needs to do. Like I said, being a Christian is fun. You never have to feel bad about being a total asshole, as long as you tell Jesus you're sorry in your head.

 

[reflux]

Actually, I wasn't joking. At all. He more than likely believes that asking Jesus for forgiveness is all he needs to do. Like I said, being a Christian is fun. You never have to feel bad about being a total asshole, as long as you tell Jesus you're sorry in your head.

Good point...forgiveness for everyone! Question for the faithful in the forum: What does the Church say about knowingly committing a sin, and subsequently asking for forgiveness?

Now that I think about it, the Warners could have an agreement like Andre K and his wife. http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_3561131 Something to that effect would certainly make sense; I'll see what I can find out.

 

[moff_quigley]

Good point...forgiveness for everyone! Question for the faithful in the forum: What does the Church say about knowingly committing a sin, and subsequently asking for forgiveness?<snip>

Hebrews 10:

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Romans 6:

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

and

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


IMO, Christianity in America probably doesn't give these verses much thought.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

the question is...

would you take performance enhancing drugs, at least once...
if you have access to one of those fancy steroid sports doctors???? monitored weekly and everything.. getting all spots covered, and health risks to the minumum???

 

[reflux]

the question is...

would you take performance enhancing drugs, at least once...
if you have access to one of those fancy steroid sports doctors???? monitored weekly and everything.. getting all spots covered, and health risks to the minumum???

...and have the potential to make millions of dollars in the process? The real question should be, who wouldn't?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

...and have the potential to make millions of dollars in the process? The real question should be, who wouldn't?

less the million dollar potential i mean. recreationally i´d say.

 

[reflux]

less the million dollar potential i mean. recreationally i´d say.

For me? No. But I am not a recreational racer whose disposition relies solely on beating down my fellow amateur racers. I am a weekend warrior with a body that does most everything I ask of it, or at least it will with some training.

If you have not read this article before, I suggest sitting down with a drink or cup of coffee.

http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html