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Protein shakes and kidney stones?

VTApe

Monkey
Feb 5, 2005
194
10
Vermont
So I finally got serious about eating right/exercising. I am running 2-3 miles (treadmill while the weather is still cold here in VT), and lifting heavily every other day (biceps, chest, triceps, quads, calves, etc.) In order to build mass for football next fall, I am doing less reps with more weight. Recently, I have begun to take protein shakes once a day on those that I only run, and twice a day when I lift and run. All in all, I am getting about 36g of protein/shake. This is on top of 1200mg of Omega 3/6 fish oil pills and a multi vitamin daily. I am 6'8", 280lbs with 18.85% body fat currently (not exact). I am eating right, lots of vegetables/whole grain/fruit/lean meat (skinless chicken breast), and the more I continue this lifestyle change, the better it feels and the less i think about eating the crap I used to.

Anyways, do I run any risk of forming kidney stones or other issues with the extra protein I am taking in? I drink at least 3 liters of water a day. Also, if anyone has any suggestions or anything about my diet/exercise routine, please let me know, I'm new to this.
 

BlackElvis

Chimp
Dec 5, 2007
65
0
Slovenia, Europe
No you don't, as long as you drink enough water it's ok (min. 3-4l)

If you want to gain any muscular mass just keep eating as much as you can. Consider about buying some creatin for more intensive trainings and faster regeneration.
 

VTApe

Monkey
Feb 5, 2005
194
10
Vermont
thanks guys, i realize this isn't the best place for a question like this, so i appreciate the answers and the forum where this would be better asked.
 

ultraNoob

Yoshinoya Destroyer
Jan 20, 2007
4,515
1
Hills of Paradise
Never had any kidney stones when I'm in the middle of a training program, but I did notice some dificulty peeing when I first started using the EAS whey protein. Dificulty only lasted about 3-4 days. Guess my body had to get used to it.
 

Sinister17

Chimp
Mar 17, 2008
46
0
PNW
Interesting comment re: EAS whey protein. That stuff didn't burn very clean in my system. I quit using it.

Belay the above comment on creatine; not good.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,701
290
VT
Consumption of some sources of protein can contribute to both calcium and uric acid stones:

From kidney stone types at:
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=80834

Calcium Stones

...

The beef about animal protein: Protein is an essential nutrient needed for numerous functions in our body. The average American consumes about twice the RDA for protein each day with the majority of it coming from animal sources. Some research has shown a link between kidney stones and diets high in animal protein, while others have found no difference in stone formation in animal versus plant protein consumption. If the majority of your meals contain a source of meat (for example, chicken, turkey, eggs, beef, seafood, pork, or dairy foods), then the recommendation would be to cut back on the quantity and/or frequency that these are consumed.
Uric Acid Stones
...
Uric acid stones are associated with a high purine intake and acidic urine. When there is too much uric acid in the urine, stones can form.

Cut the purines: Purines are found in high concentrations in anchovies, sardines, herring, mackerel, scallops, gravy, meat, and meat products. Organ meats such as liver, brain, sweetbread, and kidney have particularly high levels. Studies have found that a high intake of purines can increase the amount of uric acid in the urine, leading to the formation of uric acid stones.
More on the nutrition industry and protein (you probably don't need much extra - this is what my nutritional science professor echoed and he's an over 30 year veteran in his field)...

From the May 2003 edition of Dr. Fuhrman's Healthy Times:

Q. I went to the gym and started working with a personal trainer. He advocated I eat more protein and advised I consume about 150 grams of protein a day, including the use of protein drinks with whey protein. Is this advisable?

A. Unfortunately, most trainers and bodybuilders are influenced by what they read in exercise and bodybuilding magazines. This is worse than getting nutritional information from comic books. Look through any current bodybuilding magazine; what are the vast majority of advertisements selling? Supplements! Most of the pages in these magazines are devoted to pushing worthless powders and pills. Supplement companies slant the opinions of the magazine article writers. The articles in the magazines are geared to support their advertisers.

Our entire society is on a protein binge, brainwashed with misinformation that we have been hearing since childhood. The educational materials used in most schools have been provided free by the meat, dairy, and egg industries for more than seventy years. These industries have successfully lobbied the government, resulting in favorable laws, subsidies, and advertising propaganda that promote corporate profits at the expense of national health. As a result, Americans have been programmed with dangerous information.

Proteins are made up of amino acids, and help build muscles, blood, skin, hair, nails, and internal organs. There are twenty amino acids required for growth by the human body, and all but eight can be produced in an adult body.


These eight amino acids are called essential amino acids and must be supplied by the foods we eat. The twelve “non-essential” amino acids are manufactured within the body, but both essential and non-essential amino acids are necessary for the synthesis of tissue proteins. Almost all Americans get more than enough protein each day.

Protein myths at work
The average American consumes about fifty percent more protein than the recommended daily amount. Yet we often see—in addition to misinformed athletes, fitness enthusiasts, and bodybuilders—businessmen and women, homemakers, and those seeking to lose weight turning to protein powders, drinks, and nutritional bars in their quest for even more protein.

It is true that resistance training and endurance workouts can break down muscle protein and increase our need for protein to fuel repair and growth. But the increased need of protein is proportional to the increased need for calories burned with the exercise. As your appetite increases, you increase your caloric intake accordingly, and your protein intake increases proportionally. If you meet those increased caloric demands from heavy exercise with an ordinary assortment of natural plant foods—vegetables, whole grains, beans, and nuts, which contain more than 50 grams of protein per 1000 calories—you will get the precise amount of extra protein you need.

Plant proteins
A typical assortment of vegetables, nuts, seeds, beans, and whole grains supplies about 50 grams of protein per 1000 calories. Keep in mind, green vegetables are almost fifty percent protein, and when you eat more vegetables it does not promote cancer or heart disease, like it does when you increase consumption of animal products. Plus, the additional calories from plant food will give you much more than just protein; they will supply you with the antioxidants that can protect against the increased free radicals generated by the exercise.

Whey too much protein
Consider that the maximum muscle mass the human body can typically add in one week is about one pound. That is the upper limit of the muscle fiber’s capacity to make protein into muscle; any protein beyond that is simply converted to fat. It also is not necessarily advisable to gain a pound of muscle per week. Although athletes have a greater protein requirement than sedentary individuals, this is easily obtained through the diet. The use of protein supplements is not merely a waste of money, it is unhealthy.

Studies on supplemental amino acid consumption have not supported claims that such supplementation increases growth hormone or provides other touted benefits. In fact, increased whey protein added to the diet of rats increased tumors and cancers.

Little safety assurance
Nutritional supplements can be marketed without FDA approval of safety or effectiveness. Athletes who choose to ingest these supplements should be concerned with the safety of long-term use. They are low-nutrient, low-fiber, highly-processed, high-calorie “foods,” whose consumption reduces the phytochemical density of your diet.

Ingesting more protein than your body needs is not a small matter. It ages you prematurely and can cause significant harm. The excess protein you do not use is not stored by your body as protein; it is converted to fat or eliminated via the kidneys. Eliminating excess nitrogen via your urine leaches calcium and other minerals from your bones and breeds kidney stones.

Bad amino acid trips
Vegetable foods are alkaline. Animal products are acidic foods that require a huge output of hydrochloric acid from the stomach for digestion. This acid tide in the blood after a high-protein meal requires an equally strong basic response by the body to neutralize the acid. The dietary-derived acid load from high-protein animal foods must be buffered, and to do that your bones dissolve and release phosphates and calcium. The alkaline phosphate then buffers the acid. This is a primary step in bone loss that leads to osteoporosis. High salt intake also contributes to flushing your bone mass down the toilet bowl. Excessive stimulation of bone turnover also causes an increase in bone breakdown and remodeling, which can lead to osteoarthritis and calcium deposits in other tissues. The presence of this bone material in the urinary tract also lays the foundation for calcium-based kidney stones.


Exercise—not extra protein—builds strength, denser bones, and bigger muscles. When you artificially stimulate growth through overfeeding and excessive animal product consumption, you may achieve a heightened body mass index unobtainable by other means, but you will add fat to your body as well. Let me remind you that higher body mass index, even if that additional body mass is a mixture of extra muscle and fat, is a strong indicator of premature death.

Racing to the grave
Out of more than 600 Olympic athletes on the East German 1964 Olympic team, fewer than 10 are still alive today. Promoting muscular growth with supplements and steroids doesn’t seem too wise in that context. Excessive body mass, and even excessive muscular development, gained by gorging on high-protein animal products is a risk factor for heart attacks and other diseases later in life.

Measuring relative physical size is not a good way to measure health. Health must be judged by measuring strength per body weight, resistance to serious illnesses, longevity potential, and maintenance of useful vigor into your later years.
 
Plentiful studies(in which I have personally read and am not going to go through the trouble of quoting) have proven that in endurance athletes and "bodybuilders" Protein intake should be between 1-2 grams per pound of bodyweight for optimum benefits. I have personally seen the gains in lean body mass on my own body just by increasing my protein intake while utilizing the same workout. I believe that results speak for themselves, not ONE "doctors" opinion. I'm sure that the reference material he refers to was not HIS OWN highly controlled laboratory study done over many years with many different people of different body composition. I'm sure this man had never studied an elite bodybuilder, or elite athlete of any type for a prolonged period of time. Not once in your quote is a Specific study referred to. It just says "In fact, increased whey protein added to the diet of rats increased tumors and cancers." Where? In what study? Who performed the study? What were the controls? For Every Point someone is going to make, someone will have a counterpoint. Just for your own sake, make sure it is an educated one. Don't just quote something you read supposedly written by some "doctor". There are plenty of people out there who don't have an M.D. that know more than you and I both that will give you a pretty good schooling on nutrition and supplements-I guarantee more than your Doc. buddy. Read up some more and do some studies of your own, I bet you'll be suprised if you learn to be more open-minded.:crazy:
P.S. That little thing about the '64 German Olympic team- Why don't you look it up. A little thing called 17aa oral steroids. Dianabol to be exact. Read about who invented it and for who. Another reason you shouldn't quote things and try to make a point you have no Idea about. Ass
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,701
290
VT
Plentiful studies(in which I have personally read and am not going to go through the trouble of quoting) have proven that in endurance athletes and "bodybuilders"
You need a basic understanding of what a valid scientific study is and biases. I don't care how many you are offering if they are from the industries that make the supplements. That is how the artificial sweetner industry got their garbage pushed through the FDA - studies they paid for and former executives that went on to work for the FDA.

Also you missed this part right after he mentioned those athletes:

Out of more than 600 Olympic athletes on the East German 1964 Olympic team, fewer than 10 are still alive today. Promoting muscular growth with supplements and steroids doesn’t seem too wise in that context.
Anyone would easily trust a well respect nutritional sciences professor of 30 years rather than some clueless person from the Internet - my professor is an academic with no commercial interests and has plenty of college athletes in their prime to study. Nutritional/supplement companies specialize in BS, not results. Look at all the silly overpriced nutrition products in the cycling industry alone.

Sugar pills work great for a lot of fools too...
 
You need a basic understanding of what a valid scientific study is and biases. I don't care how many you are offering if they are from the industries that make the supplements. That is how the artificial sweetner industry got their garbage pushed through the FDA - studies they paid for and former executives that went on to work for the FDA.

Also you missed this part right after he mentioned those athletes:



Anyone would easily trust a rather than some clueless person from the Internet - he is an Academic with no commercial interest and has plenty of college athletes in their prime to study. Nutritional/supplement companies specialize in BS, not results. Look at all the silly overpriced nutrition products in the cycling industry alone.
I have been active in health and fitness all of my life begining with Baseball, Basketball, Volleyball, Kenpo Karate and Muay Tai Kickboxing to Rollerblading, Bikeriding, Running and Weight lifting. Not once did I say "I read in this magazine" or "This one supplement company did this study, and...". You have a problem with not being open minded. Listen, I have been studying this as a passion for my health, well being, and peace of mind-not for some college credits. The original poster specifically asked because he had a major change in his fitness program toward high stress aerobic and anaerobic exercise. You posted a quote that pertained to...

"The AVERAGE AMERICAN consumes about fifty percent more protein than the recommended daily amount. Yet we often see—in addition to misinformed athletes, fitness enthusiasts, and bodybuilders—businessmen and women, homemakers, and those seeking to lose weight turning to protein powders, drinks, and nutritional bars in their quest for even more protein."

Have you ever used any performance enhancing supplement? Doesn't sound like you have. To put it bluntly, Shut up unless you have something to say from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. Good or Bad. I may be half retarded but I'd listen to someone who said "This Protein, or this creatine, or this fat burner, or this work out routine, worked or didn't work for me" than someone who posted someone else's supposed studies.

Listen, It's Ignorant for me to even continue this discussion with you because you immediatly shut the door for any other reasoning. You say anyone would easily trust some well respected nutritional science major over someone on the internet. I don't. I have PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that contradicts whatever your BHUDDA has to say so I guess to each, his own. Again, all I'm saying is do a little research of your own, be your own man, don't just parrot what someone else says. Hitler had an opinion too. Does it make it right?
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,701
290
VT
As I said above, placebos work for people too. Also a lot of people interpret any change as a change for the better when its just a difference they are noticing - maybe at the same level/insignificant or sometimes actually worse than baseline. People don't want to think they were making an effort for nothing.

I have used excessive amounts of whey powder and other BS a few times before I knew any better - a majority of supplement users don't need much as the industry claims (as I noted, I didn't say its completely necessary) . My family has been involved in the sport industry since the early 70s before I was born. My father has been a certified athletic professional for almost as long and has coached several world class men and women athletes, and is a majority partner in a multi-million dollar sports facility so yeah, I've have heard and experiences all sorts of bull**** from the sports and nutritional supplements industry.
 
As I said above, placebos work for people too. A lot of people interpret any change as a change for the better when its just a difference they are noticing - maybe at the same level/insignificant or sometimes actually worse than baseline.

I have used excessive amounts of whey powder and other BS a few times before I knew any better - a majority of supplement users don't need much as the industry claims (as I noted, I didn't say its completely necessary) . My family has been involved in the sport industry since the early 70s before I was born. My father has been a certified athletic professional for almost as long and has coached several world class men and women athletes, and is a majority partner in a multi-million dollar sports facility so yeah, I've have heard and experiences all sorts of bull**** from the sports and nutritional supplements industry.
I didn't see you write that placebos work in anything you had written. Your father is a certified athletic professional WHAT? Coached WORLD CLASS men and women? WHAT KIND? WHAT SPORT? When making those kind of claims, better have some substanital FACTS to throw in there with it. Even if you're B.S.'in at least make it sound like you know what you're talking about.
"I have used excessive amounts of whey powder and other BS a few times before I knew any better " How did you know better- You read or heard from some one else it was BAD? Did you see negative results? How long did you use the supplements? I HAVE USED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF SUPPLEMENTS, PERFORMANCE ENHACERS, PRO-HORMONES AND PRO-STEROIDS, MOST HAVE WORKED, SOME HAVE NOT. I HAVE FIRST HAND RESULTS AND LOSSES. Please don't continue to post second and third hand experiences, you just make yourself seem less like your own person and more like an ass. I'm sorry that you are so closed minded. It's a shame that there are people out there that might actually listen to what you have to say. People like you are the reason that people have Phobias and old wives tales get started. BE YOUR OWN MAN, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, GIVE YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES. IF YOU DONT HAVE ANY FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE, DONT GIVE ANY ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!
 
And now from the peanut gallery....^^^
I love how people interpert BOLD as yelling. Did you HEAR me say anything because I haven't spoken a word. I was hoping that he would have less of a chance of reading over the point i was making again. Straying from the norm catches peoples attention, he didn't seem like he was paying attention. And no I'm not angry, I just love it when someone reads one article from some "doctor" and takes it as the bible. I was honestly hoping I could make your ignore list in 5 but seems I failed.:nopity: