Had to look. The Tracer, with 27" wheels, is 32 teeth.
PSA: In Stock / On Sale
- Thread starter djjohnr
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that gearing would be considered too tall around here. Many of the trails in most popular areas nearby tend to be kinda steep. With a lot of trailbuilders trying to out do each other with their track's technicality. I believe Jack Moir was back in the area making trail vids again recently.
Not that it matters to anyone else but I run 10spd 11-46 HG on my 29 derp 11-42 11spd XD on the vold 27.5 derp (now uysed as a moar playful trailbike) and 10spd 11-36 HG on my 27.5 Emtb - dunno what their price would be over where you are you but all Shimano HG cassettes are still dirt cheap here (relatively). as for XD GX 11spd is a little more expensive but still around half the price of 12spd GX
Yeaah. they're often not even in stock with the UK distributors. They're well pricy too. Possibly because there's not a huge demand for them (kinda partly because of SRAM's domination of the drivetrain market even though their crank BB solution is shite!
BTW. I have 165mm Mk2 SAINTS on 3 bikes. They just last and last. So I'd maybe keep an eye out for a S/H set if I were you.
Sage Alloy Pedal, $105, rebuild kits are supposedly free at a yearly rate.
trailone.bike
The Sage Alloy Pedal - Trail One Components
The Sage Alloy Pedal, based on our Vortex design, features more concave, taller pins, a larger platform, and durable internals. With 2mm concave and 10 pins per side for grip, it weighs just 216g per pedal and includes a lifetime warranty plus one free rebuild kit per year. Experience top-tier...
trailone.bike
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when you think about the complexity of the system in comparison to flat pedals yes. but SPD pedals have been around for over 30 years now, and the core functional design of them is largely unchanged, so its a very mature design/technology.
I'd argue other than concavity and maybe sizes, flat pedals haven't really evolved since Odyssey Tenderizers or Kona Wah Wahs came out.
To me flat pedals are expensive because they are also taken as a trait associated with radness. We are still using that "flat pedals win medals" motto nowadays, even when maybe 10% of the top 10 of any WC DH race is using them.
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i get punchy when i hear FPWM, because its dumb as fuck. also overhearing people in the lift line complaining about how they blew their feet off their pedals and shinned themselves makes me LOL.
Look man, steel is real, flat pedals win medals, and you only need one f*cking speed…
brakes are for losers!
I dunno, I haven't used any really old flat pedals, but of the more recent ones, advances in concavity & shape, not to mention better, longer lasting internals are pretty important.
It's not even close to 10% in pro races, maybe 1/50 or so, and some of those are situational. Don't get me wrong, I'm flats for life, but that's because I don't race and I'll take the ability to instantly bail from the bike for personal safety or kick a foot out over a little better stability. I also (knock on wood) haven't shinned myself in years, or even torn the back of my socks/kneepads with pins. But I don't go around trying to preach that whatever pedals I'm using are better than whatever the people I'm riding with are.
Two weeks ago I put a new set of Shimano M530 pedals in my bike, and also set up the new cleats to my shoes. I tend to run my pedals at maximum tension because I like to move the bike while in the air, and after almost 30 years running SPD compatible pedals, my bail-out reflex is pretty well developed.
Well, I found the hard way Shimano cleats break out too easily for my taste. I lost my left pedal on a right-turn jump, landed nose heavy on a slightly muddy reception, and ended up washing out and taking a good hit to my right leg. Shifting back to a set of VP cleats left me with enough resistance to avoid unwanted unclipping.
What I mean with all this chit chat is I've never had issues bailing out, but trusting the cleat/pedal interface and being unintentionally unclipped (due to worn cleats/pedals or mismatched cleat shape) have caused me to eat moar dirt than I even wished for.
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Yeah, continuing the derail, I haven't been riding nearly as long as most people on clips have, and never even ride road. So zero unclip muscle memory. I've tried running various brands that everyone else seem to like and none of them gelled with me. I hate the float on anything SPD (feels like I'm wearing dress shoes on ice) because when I rotate my feet to move the bike, I'm used to the connection being pretty solid. CB style clips make it possible to get rid of the float entirely, but the clip in mechanism feels too unpredictable to me.
It's cool though. Like I said, I don't race so am not concerned about whether my shoe/pedal setup is milliseconds slower. I've found setups that work well for my capabilities and feet (Impact Pros and either Hope F22s or Deity TMacs), and I can think of only 1 time in the last year where I found my feet getting bounced off because I came into a rock garden unexpectedly and didn't have my feet planted. Just like long time clip riders don't have to think about clipping in or out most of the time, long time flat riders don't have to think about keeping their feet planted most of the time.
It's cool though. Like I said, I don't race so am not concerned about whether my shoe/pedal setup is milliseconds slower. I've found setups that work well for my capabilities and feet (Impact Pros and either Hope F22s or Deity TMacs), and I can think of only 1 time in the last year where I found my feet getting bounced off because I came into a rock garden unexpectedly and didn't have my feet planted. Just like long time clip riders don't have to think about clipping in or out most of the time, long time flat riders don't have to think about keeping their feet planted most of the time.
i just like to have a laugh at how seriously people take their pedal of choice.
what's insane to me is that deity tmacs have the same MSRP as XTR SPD pedals.
full disclosure: i started riding clipless before i could legally drive (well over half my life at this point).
No denying they're spendy. I've also used other flats that have a really, really similar design (basically TMac clones at half the price) that needed service every few months. Both pairs of TMacs I have still feel like new after a couple years. But yea most of the cost on these stupid expensive flats is the fancy machining and anodizing, which is purely for looks. If I was actually on a budget, I'd run Deftraps.
switched to flats full time maybe 15 years ago...other than in bad wrecks, 90% of my shin bites come when standing around/resting. can't remember the last time slipping a pedal on something bloodied me.
Flat pedals all have their particular feel and trying the different flat pedal options on the market is almost some kind of a hobby now.
After 25 years of riding clipless, I switched to flats in 2022 and I've never looked back. I am a bit ashamed to admit that I already have way more pedals than bikes...and I'm quite interested in testing the Chromag Daggah, and the Deity Supervillain...and I also quite liked the feeling of the OneUp on my friend's bike.
So yeah...there's probably a reason why they are so expensive and why there are so many different models.
After 25 years of riding clipless, I switched to flats in 2022 and I've never looked back. I am a bit ashamed to admit that I already have way more pedals than bikes...and I'm quite interested in testing the Chromag Daggah, and the Deity Supervillain...and I also quite liked the feeling of the OneUp on my friend's bike.
So yeah...there's probably a reason why they are so expensive and why there are so many different models.
TBF the price simply reflects which country they were manufactured and assembled in.
Almosr everyone who ever used the original XT SPD where retention was spring from the front AND rear will tell you that design was far superior to Shimano's current designs. I can only assume it was a cost cutting decision on Shimano's part.
I mean it's not hard to find a (much) more expensive clipless pedal..
Leave it to SRAM: https://www.sram.com/en/time-sport/models/pd-spc-12-b1
or Crank Bros: https://www.crankbrothers.com/collections/mallet/products/mallet-e-11
Granted the basic versions of both pedals (like the XTRs) are right around that $180-190 mark.
Ironically. Choosing a good flat pedal is really fucking simple just using good old common sense. Unfortunately marketing and hype play right into the path of the over thinking over spending goober who'll end up going through a shit ton of pedals in their hunt for excellence. If only the same people had spent as much time in a set of vans and on any basic flat pedal without a retarded design they might calm their needless spending spree
I know and I agree with you. This is why I say it's kind of a hobby. Completely irrational spending leading to very little performance benefits.
The interest lies more in the process of testing the differences of the various products, which are real and not only marketing.
Yeah. But name ONE improvement you found that isn't simply common sense?
Do yourself a favour and just ditch riding in sticky soled flat pedal specific cycling shows for a while . It'll reset your habit for sure.
To be clear...it's not really a habit. My "style" is to buy quality bikes/parts and ride them for several years. My road bike is from 2008. My BMX from 2014, my Enduro bike from 2018, etc. Not exactly a brainless spender throwing away fuck you money all the time. I have a couple pairs of extra pedals, that's all.
To answer your first question, it's not necessarily the pursuit of "improvement". For example, I have DMR Vault and NSB Daemon pedals. Both are comparable in terms of grip, but they feel quite different. Both work fine and I can't quite say which one is my favorite. I also have a pair of RF Atlas v2. This one has a very aggressive pin pattern and I agree with you: common sense tells you they should grip like crazy just by looking at them...and they do.
My litmus test for if a brand is actually offering something interesting, or is just some dudes who wanted a bike brand is; do they primarily make machined stems and/or pedals?
Because machined stems and pedals are probably the easiest things to start out with. Sure a pedal spindle and bearings may take some thought - but the body is an easy item to machine and keep inventory.
Literally name one company who started with pedals and/or stems who’s reason for existing goes deeper than “we like bikes and have access to a cnc machine”.
Because machined stems and pedals are probably the easiest things to start out with. Sure a pedal spindle and bearings may take some thought - but the body is an easy item to machine and keep inventory.
Literally name one company who started with pedals and/or stems who’s reason for existing goes deeper than “we like bikes and have access to a cnc machine”.
atlas has been my go to ever since the og kona wah's. haven't found anything better.
The world needs more 40mm & 50mm black anodised stems and $150 machine aluminium pedals though!!
And anodizing. Can't forget the anodizing. Gotta be able to be a unique snowflake with orange anodized stem / pedals / seatpost clamp / hubs / dropper lever / aftermarket brake levers to match your Fox suspension, just like the 5 other guys in the parking lot.
Ah... You just meant personal preferences. Fair enough. I have plenty of those myself.
Eg. I fucking hate curved/angular outer pedal edges. This is because I like to roll my foot over the edge in certain riding situations. So like it to be a defined straight edge.
For that reason alone I'm not a huge fan of Vaults or Atlas'. Atlas also have a large bearing bulge on the pedal body close to the axle/crank. The inside edge of the pedal/crank face is another place I like to move my foot to in certain situations.
Neither of these things probably even occur to many a sticky sole cycle specific shoe user. Nevermind bother them.
I'm still happy with my $390 flats, I was going to buy another set yesterday but they were out of stock.
They have about 5000km on them, have been greased once and feel like new.
No doubt Gary has 400000Miles on a pair of Alihoohaa plastics but I am heavy and lazy and kill bearings and bushings pretty quickly.
Syntace aren't as good a profile as Horizons but Horizons are a bit small and the pins are too far from the corners(for me).
T-Macs got maybe 500km before the pedal body fell off, luckily it happened when I loaned them to a friend, haha!
EDIT- Also, big forged aluminium billets cost money, I'd assume SPD's are cast, if not they are still from much smaller pieces of aluminium.
It's weird that Shimano can make a decent clip pedal but they can't make a decent flat.
They have about 5000km on them, have been greased once and feel like new.
No doubt Gary has 400000Miles on a pair of Alihoohaa plastics but I am heavy and lazy and kill bearings and bushings pretty quickly.
Syntace aren't as good a profile as Horizons but Horizons are a bit small and the pins are too far from the corners(for me).
T-Macs got maybe 500km before the pedal body fell off, luckily it happened when I loaned them to a friend, haha!
EDIT- Also, big forged aluminium billets cost money, I'd assume SPD's are cast, if not they are still from much smaller pieces of aluminium.
It's weird that Shimano can make a decent clip pedal but they can't make a decent flat.
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I had to laugh when Chris King revealed they were going to start making seat post clamps. They must have a tax bill or something coming up.
Will it affect anything about how my bike handles, no - but will it match my hubs and headset? Where do I send my money!!