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PSA: new bike etailer hucknroll

Summit

Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
369
0
here 'n there
I don't work for these guys but thought I'd pass the info on - backcountry.com/chainlove's new online retail mountain bike site launches first thing Thurs a.m: hucknroll.com

Should be interesting to see how the bike industry copes with this, heh.

Here's the mini-spiel from their press release:

HuckNroll.com is an online mountain bike shop. You heard right. Online. And we wouldn’t be putting it lightly to say that the bike industry didn’t want us. The consensus when we first approached suppliers about launching a high-end online mountain bike shop was, “It will never work, the bike industry is different.” Our response? “Damn right, it’s different. It’s the last industry in existence to accept the Internet as a viable sales channel.”

We’re stocking more than 6,000 products from 130 high-end bike-specific brands. We have components from Shimano, Race Face, Truvativ, Avid, Easton, and Gravity; apparel and accessories from Fox Racing, Troy Lee Designs, POC, Sombrio, Dakine, Endura, and Zoic; and complete bikes from Santa Cruz, Intense, Titus, Look and Rocky Mountain. (We’re the only authorized online dealer of Rocky Mountain in the U.S.)

HucknRoll.com is staffed by mountain bike gear freaks (including that dude who rambles on about the frame geometry of the 1993 Fat Chance Yo Eddy every time he laces a wheel). Only USA Cycling race-certified bike mechanics will touch your bikes, and only fully trained customer service gearheads will take your calls and answer your live chats. Our goal is to provide, hands down, the best customer lovin’ in the industry.

HucknRoll is community-powered, with gear reviews, Q&A, and images all submitted by you and other riders on the site. That means you get the god’s honest truth on the goods, whether the guys that make the bikes like it or not.
 

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
this guy would go over well here in the DH forum:

including that dude who rambles on about the frame geometry of the 1993 Fat Chance Yo Eddy every time he laces a wheel

Oh, and one of the most bat sh1t crazy press releases I have seen since Paris Hiltons album dropped.
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,208
581
Durham, NC
Awesome! Another web etailer that operates on 20% margins! Just what we need. It will be gone in less than a year. Mark my words...
 

slowitdown

Monkey
Mar 30, 2009
553
0
are they saying there has never a place to get bike stuff online before hucknroll?
Backcountry.com is the NUMBAH WON!!! source for Bro-Brah-Brohambleton STOKE, YO!

Pure poseur power times a MILLION!

They know how to throw out paragraph after paragraph of pure nonsense, all while giving the Bro-Brah-Brohambleton verbal secret handshake. It's a business plan, YO!
 

drkenan

anti-dentite
Oct 1, 2006
3,441
1
west asheville
After my recent dealings with Steep and Cheap, I will forever be in support of this company. Their customer service is straight awesome.
 

drkenan

anti-dentite
Oct 1, 2006
3,441
1
west asheville
The simple fact that you had to deal with customer service speaks volumes.
A tent I ordered off Steep and Cheap was ripped. Not their fault in any way. I emailed them to see about an exchange - turns out they have a 100% satisfaction guaranteed policy for the life of the product.

Anyway, I don't work there or anything but I've had nothing but good dealings with them. Doesn't matter to me if you want to hate. Did they do something to make you so angry?
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,208
581
Durham, NC
Kenan, no hate towards you. It's just frustrating when you are trying to operate a legitimate business and fly-by-night retailers are sucking the life out of you.
 

Summit

Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
369
0
here 'n there
Backcountry.com is the NUMBAH WON!!! source for Bro-Brah-Brohambleton STOKE, YO!

Pure poseur power times a MILLION!

They know how to throw out paragraph after paragraph of pure nonsense, all while giving the Bro-Brah-Brohambleton verbal secret handshake. It's a business plan, YO!
Hah. Yeah, the bro-PR-brah speak is just awful. Could they try to sound any more 'legit' and fall flat on their faces?

spomer - I don't think they are saying that there haven't been legit online dealers before, but backcountry.com has a powerhouse infrastructure, that, if the site/product selection succeeds, stands a chance at putting most other bike etailers to shame (with maybe the exception of competitive cyclist and a couple others).

And if they'll succeed at anything here, it's CS no doubt.
 

spornographer

Monkey
Feb 19, 2009
246
0
Awesome! Another web etailer that operates on 20% margins! Just what we need. It will be gone in less than a year. Mark my words...
it probably won't be gone in a year though as bike company X will freak out when they have 50 frames left in inventory, panic because of recession and then sell the 50 frames to hucknroll for $10 above cost to manufacture, so consumers can get them for $1000 off retail, while hucknroll still makes their 20% on 50 frames. meanwhile smaller dealers of bike company X will have to sell the same frames (which are still a current-year model and were purchased at wholesale only a month earlier) for less than what they bought it for to get rid of it.

wait, that's chainlove. is there a difference?

they (backcountry) have a lot of cash, are super-efficient, they buy sh!t in bulk and run out everyone else. modern world, i guess.

stik, are you USA Cycling certified mechanic? that seems like a good thing for a resume.
 

spornographer

Monkey
Feb 19, 2009
246
0
I don't think they are saying that there haven't been legit online dealers before
yeah, i was just playing along...they do say, however "It’s the last industry in existence to accept the Internet as a viable sales channel" - really? supergo/performance and a host of others have never considered the WWW as a sales channel? come on...
 

limitedslip

Monkey
Jul 11, 2007
173
1
it probably won't be gone in a year though as bike company X will freak out when they have 50 frames left in inventory, panic because of recession and then sell the 50 frames to hucknroll for $10 above cost to manufacture, so consumers can get them for $1000 off retail, while hucknroll still makes their 20% on 50 frames. meanwhile smaller dealers of bike company X will have to sell the same frames (which are still a current-year model and were purchased at wholesale only a month earlier) for less than what they bought it for to get rid of it.

wait, that's chainlove. is there a difference?

they (backcountry) have a lot of cash, are super-efficient, they buy sh!t in bulk and run out everyone else. modern world, i guess.

stik, are you USA Cycling certified mechanic? that seems like a good thing for a resume.
What keeps company X from buying up the cheap frames? All in all, sounds like a great deal for consumers.
 

drkenan

anti-dentite
Oct 1, 2006
3,441
1
west asheville
Kenan, no hate towards you. It's just frustrating when you are trying to operate a legitimate business and fly-by-night retailers are sucking the life out of you.
I hear ya. Actually, I have no idea why I'm trying to stick up for these guys so much. I'd be pissed if I were involved in the bike industry too.
 

spornographer

Monkey
Feb 19, 2009
246
0
What keeps company X from buying up the cheap frames? All in all, sounds like a great deal for consumers.
i understand hucknroll isn't chainlove, but since the backend and cash flows from the same place, i'll keep going with this...

"normal" dealers never had a chance and bike company X never gave dealers any indication or incentive (like a discount) to buy any of these 50 frames. all of a sudden the once-full-retail frames (that were still popular and not out of demand) showed up on the mega discount website.

from a consumer standpoint, 1 of 2 things might happen with the example and it's up to you to determine if it is good or bad:
1. a month ago, you paid full retail for the-now-cheap frame in question and now you see it for 1/2 price. does that stoke you out on the brand or shop who you think just hustled you? it was the latest/greatest frame a month ago, now it's in the bargain bin without any warning to dealers or consumers. there goes brand loyalty and now you're conditioned to just wait for the huge product dump and sale, so you'll probably never pay full retail (or close to it) again. this trickles down to everyone involved in making the bike, therefore slimming margins and reasons to stay in business.

2. your frame now has very little resale value as its "new" price is half that of what it was a month ago. never again can it be claimed to be worth the original msrp. resale value isn't the responsibility of any bike company or shop, but in the long run, it devalues the brand...especially if the brand is considered custom or niche.

like the housing/credit market, it just seems like poor, short-sighted thinking and panic. it's one thing for softgoods and high-volume, low-cost items to go through the discount site, but a company/brand dependent upon niche/image/big ticket items should be careful about knee-jerk blowouts on their products. your mercedes will become a hyundai before you know it.

i'll stop rambling/hijacking now.

on topic, i too agree that backcountry has excellent CS and are super-efficient in their system.
 
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slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,288
5,028
Ottawa, Canada
i understand hucknroll isn't chainlove, but since the backend and cash flows from the same place, i'll keep going with this...

"normal" dealers never had a chance and bike company X never gave dealers any indication or incentive (like a discount) to buy any of these 50 frames. all of a sudden the once-full-retail frames (that were still popular and not out of demand) showed up on the mega discount website.

from a consumer standpoint, 1 of 2 things might happen with the example and it's up to you to determine if it is good or bad:
1. a month ago, you paid full retail for the-now-cheap frame in question and now you see it for 1/2 price. does that stoke you out on the brand or shop who you think just hustled you? it was the latest/greatest frame a month ago, now it's in the bargain bin without any warning to dealers or consumers. there goes brand loyalty and now you're conditioned to just wait for the huge product dump and sale, so you'll probably never pay full retail (or close to it) again. this trickles down to everyone involved in making the bike, therefore slimming margins and reasons to stay in business.

2. your frame now has very little resale value as its "new" price is half that of what it was a month ago. never again can it be claimed to be worth the original msrp. resale value isn't the responsibility of any bike company or shop, but in the long run, it devalues the brand...especially if the brand is considered custom or niche.

like the housing/credit market, it just seems like poor, short-sighted thinking and panic. it's one thing for softgoods and high-volume, low-cost items to go through the discount site, but a company/brand dependent upon niche/image/big ticket items should be careful about knee-jerk blowouts on their products. your mercedes will become a hyundai before you know it.

i'll stop rambling/hijacking now.

on topic, i too agree that backcountry has excellent CS and are super-efficient in their system.
Spornographer,

I don't entirely disagree with you. In fact I mostly agree. But toss this argument in the ring and see how it plays out.

You are saying that the Backcountry.com business model isn't viable in the long run. And the elements you pick out (manufacturer retailer relationship and control of msrp) seem to reflect the business model of automobile manufacturers and retailers where the manufacturer controls who can sell their vehicles, how many they can sell and at what price. I would argue that that model doesn't seem to be working out too well for them right now (witness 1/4 of GM dealers being shut down). I'm not particularly confident in this line of argument, caus' I don't know much about, but it's food for thought isn't it?

As for Backcountry and Hucknroll, I'm in Canada, and the exchange rate has as big a role as anything in my decision making process. Most of the time its not worth buying on-line from the US.
 

spornographer

Monkey
Feb 19, 2009
246
0
Spornographer,

I don't entirely disagree with you. In fact I mostly agree. But toss this argument in the ring and see how it plays out.

You are saying that the Backcountry.com business model isn't viable in the long run.
i tried to note that poor long term issues will be with the big discount/blowout site when dealing with big ticket items from niche brands...that's all. in fact i don't think it's the discount site that's the issue, it's the brands that panic or react too quickly and dump their still-valuable stuff there (edit: w/o giving smaller dealers proper notification/chance/offer about that discounted inventory). THAT hurts the industry in the long run

huckrnoll/backcountry will be great as they're "normal" e-shops with "normal" pricing. i've heard that if you order a complete bike, you'll be able to watch it on webcam as it gets built. that's trick.
 
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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
The simple fact that you had to deal with customer service speaks volumes.
I've had to deal with CRC's customer service, which sucked, alfred E bike's CS, which was good but my order isn't finished a week after being placed, have dealt with Go-ride's (excellent), and will have to deal with Jenson's shortly.

Customer service goes a long way unless you know exactly what you want or can get it at crazy deals. After my experience with ChainReact, I'll spend the extra % to order from a better shop. Backcountry has been there when I've needed it.
 

WBC

Monkey
Aug 8, 2003
578
1
PNW
Didn't chainlove get in trouble with Intense because they were selling the frames so cheap?
**** No.

And furthermore, Intense wouldn't sell the SS frames to shops for even the same price C.Love has been consistently selling them for.

This is kind of long:

Spornographer is entirely right when it comes to devaluing a high-end niche brand. People don't pay twice as much for an Intense frame because it's twice as good as a Giant/Trek/Spec. They pay twice as much mostly because it's an Intense. The main thing Intense sells is their brand identity. When you buy an Intense, you are making a statement to yourself and others that you will pay more for the Gucci, high-end, unique, small production, in-house manufactured goods. A Calvin Klein shirt probably looks, feels, smells, and fits better, but the Armani logo lets people know that you value that higher level of exclusivity and attention to each individual product produced.

In short, price and exclusivity drives demand.

Intense builds great riding bikes, and they definitely push innovation and product development. They're a great company to have around, but to survive, they need a better handle on how to run a business over the long-term. They need to learn manage their cash flow better, they need to focus more on the consumer as a whole. Intense isn't alone in this either (proof: C.Love's existence).

As far as hucknroll goes, I feel that increased competition from firms that have a long-term outlook can only do good things for the sport. This means maintaining margins, not devaluing brands, etc.

The fact of the matter is, there are too many companies all trying to capture a piece of a pie that isn't too big. They all have costs associated with business ownership, product development and production, etc, and while their marginal costs of production are probably reasonably low, they have too few sales to effectively spread their fixed costs. Once this grows into a bigger sport not driven by just forgiving enthusiasts, a more business-savvy, long term approach will be needed by players that want to survive.

All that said, I ride a boutique bike made by a company (Turner) and do appreciate the high-end exclusive goods.
 
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ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,998
702
SLO
this guy would go over well here in the DH forum:

including that dude who rambles on about the frame geometry of the 1993 Fat Chance Yo Eddy every time he laces a wheel

Oh, and one of the most bat sh1t crazy press releases I have seen since Paris Hiltons album dropped.
That is one sick bike though Stik. I know that thing feels better at speed than say a Straight 6!
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
Actually Intense got in trouble with their regular dealers for the prices they were selling to Chainlove for.
 

offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
**** No.

And furthermore, Intense wouldn't sell the SS frames to shops for even the same price C.Love has been consistently selling them for.

This is kind of long:

Spornographer is entirely right when it comes to devaluing a high-end niche brand. People don't pay twice as much for an Intense frame because it's twice as good as a Giant/Trek/Spec. They pay twice as much mostly because it's an Intense. The main thing Intense sells is their brand identity. When you buy an Intense, you are making a statement to yourself and others that you will pay more for the Gucci, high-end, unique, small production, in-house manufactured goods. A Calvin Klein shirt probably looks, feels, smells, and fits better, but the Armani logo lets people know that you value that higher level of exclusivity and attention to each individual product produced.

In short, price and exclusivity drives demand.

Intense builds great riding bikes, and they definitely push innovation and product development. They're a great company to have around, but to survive, they need a better handle on how to run a business over the long-term. They need to learn manage their cash flow better, they need to focus more on the consumer as a whole. Intense isn't alone in this either (proof: C.Love's existence).

As far as hucknroll goes, I feel that increased competition from firms that have a long-term outlook can only do good things for the sport. This means maintaining margins, not devaluing brands, etc.

The fact of the matter is, there are too many companies all trying to capture a piece of a pie that isn't too big. They all have costs associated with business ownership, product development and production, etc, and while their marginal costs of production are probably reasonably low, they have too few sales to effectively spread their fixed costs. Once this grows into a bigger sport not driven by just forgiving enthusiasts, a more business-savvy, long term approach will be needed by players that want to survive.

All that said, I ride a boutique bike made by a company (Turner) and do appreciate the high-end exclusive goods.
Yeah, those greedy bastards over at Intense should go out and get a Taiwanese manufacturing plant so they can compete:brow:

I'll pay more for a product made in the USA any day. When you factor in the real cost of manufacturing, an Intense is a bargain.

*stepping off soapbox*
 

WBC

Monkey
Aug 8, 2003
578
1
PNW
Yeah, those greedy bastards over at Intense should go out and get a Taiwanese manufacturing plant so they can compete:brow:

I'll pay more for a product made in the USA any day. When you factor in the real cost of manufacturing, an Intense is a bargain.

*stepping off soapbox*
You did NOT read all of my post. I ride a DHR. It's one of the highest priced singlepivots on the market. I appreciate that niche of the market, but it needs to be approached with a more long-term approach. Turner isn't a saint with their blowout of the singlepivots, but at least they have something new coming down the pipe. Furthermore with Intense, they build REALLY good riding bikes, and they definitely have played a major role in the evolution of high performance bicycle technology. They have always pushed the envelope of geometry, weight, etc. Not the best build quality, but amazing riding bikes....they just need to think long-term.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Yeah, those greedy bastards over at Intense should go out and get a Taiwanese manufacturing plant so they can compete:brow:

I'll pay more for a product made in the USA any day. When you factor in the real cost of manufacturing, an Intense is a bargain.

*stepping off soapbox*
Ugggg. Why can other brands make better, lighter, stronger frames for 30% less (Sinister)? Intense is ridiculously over priced, face it. Kovarik & Co. and the marketing department don't pay themselves, you do.
 

offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
You did NOT read all of my post. I ride a DHR. It's one of the highest priced singlepivots on the market. I appreciate that niche of the market, but it needs to be approached with a more long-term approach. Turner isn't a saint with their blowout of the singlepivots, but at least they have something new coming down the pipe. Furthermore with Intense, they build REALLY good riding bikes, and they definitely have played a major role in the evolution of high performance bicycle technology. They have always pushed the envelope of geometry, weight, etc. Not the best build quality, but amazing riding bikes....they just need to think long-term.
I read it and understand what you're saying......my point is

Revolt -$3000
Demo 8 -$2200
Session 88 - $3k
Dhi , Glory, ect.................all made overseas and $2k+

Intense 951 - $2700.

Now tell me how you think a frame made in the USA, under our working standards, paying tax into our system is overpriced.

I can pick up a New 08 SS frame from my local LBS for $1600. That's with retail overhead. Find me a new an 08 frame in that class made overseas that is so much cheaper.


I'm not knocking any brand or origin of these frames, but really if I'm paying $500 more for a frame made in the USA what frame is really overpriced?
 

Tdiddy

Monkey
Apr 8, 2009
222
1
basically it looks at though hucknroll.com is just an easier way to find bike products from backcountry.com. everything is on both websites at the same price, and has been available for quite some time on backcountry.com. Not sure why they even have this other site.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
cause it's totally gnarbro and has SICK advertising street cred.

really, this is nothing new, it's just backcountry with different graphics and perhaps more selection
 

Tdiddy

Monkey
Apr 8, 2009
222
1
same selection. everything there is on backcountry.com. must just be marketing. they seem to split off another sell one item at a time site every few months into more specific categories. First it was steep and cheap, then whiskey militia, then chain love, then bonk town and brociety and tramdock.
 

WBC

Monkey
Aug 8, 2003
578
1
PNW
I read it and understand what you're saying......my point is

Revolt -$3000
Demo 8 -$2200
Session 88 - $3k
Dhi , Glory, ect.................all made overseas and $2k+

Intense 951 - $2700.

Now tell me how you think a frame made in the USA, under our working standards, paying tax into our system is overpriced.

I can pick up a New 08 SS frame from my local LBS for $1600. That's with retail overhead. Find me a new an 08 frame in that class made overseas that is so much cheaper.


I'm not knocking any brand or origin of these frames, but really if I'm paying $500 more for a frame made in the USA what frame is really overpriced?
Stop.





Do you know what regular shop cost is on an Intense SS? Opp-erF*uckingTunity costs. If they're a stocking dealer, once the time value of money is considered, they are NOT making any overhead costs back if they are selling it to you for $1600 - unless they EP'd the frame or sold you a blem. That said, I don't doubt you could buy one for $1600, but that's because that shop is trying to get cash back so they can buy locks or fenders than can actually be sold at a profit - unlike that dusty, overpriced, but still current SS that is hanging on the wall for less than cost+10 employee price.

Nevertheless, I never said that US built frames are overpriced. In fact, I said that they are underpriced and that the business of botique frame production is largely unsustainable over the long-term. You obviously did not comprehend what you read. If you did, you would have noted that I mentioned that while the marginal costs of production are probably reasonably fair and standard for sound business, many US frame producers do not make enough sales to properly distribute their fixed costs of production over a suitable number of units.
 
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Uncle Cliffy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 28, 2008
4,490
42
Southern Oregon
Dang. How many friggan websites does Backcountry need? What's this one, number 10? Sheesh...

One thing's for sure, Chainlove ruined the chance of my boss picking up Intense... Logic dictated that he couldn't hang a gucci frame on the wall that people could get on closeout for cheaper than he paid for it... Yeah, cheaper. Our rep. told us what he could get us a SS frame for, and it was $290 more than Chainlove. This made the decision to carry Intense easy for him. Grrrrrrr.....

Whether it was Intenses fault, or Chainloves, it sucks for the local shops.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
There will always be those kinds of deals though, I don't see why this is news. Jenson blew out Eastern slash frames not too long ago. Back in the day, one of them blew out GT STS frames. I glorified that thing and bought one about a month before they started blowing them out. Ruined resale value of my frame.

There will always be blowouts, there will always be closeouts and for some reason there will always be overstocks. I have no idea how chainlove/BC came across so many intense frames, but they did, and that's that. I doubt you'll ever see said deals again, and you certainly won't on better and more current designs. When those designs become a year old, as in the forced obsolescence m3 vs. I swear it's different m6, nobody wants the m3 anymore and you end up being able to pick them up cheap from somebody.
 

slowitdown

Monkey
Mar 30, 2009
553
0
Business is business. Sucks for shop owners, but capitalism is the way things go.
I guess you aren't aware of what's happening in America right now... we're having a bit of economic difficulty. Just a little bit. Like historic worst. Like the USA is a ship and it is doing a Titanic. And capitalism is the system used in the USA. Coincidence? Weird synchronicity? Or maybe cause-and-effect?

Sorry...just a thought... not trying to be too political. Just saying, capitalism doesn't seem to be the way things go well... in America.