[Wa-Aw]

I'm having a shock eyelet bushing fabricated (brass) but the machine shop does seem to understand that it's probably going to need some kind of inner coating to prevent metal-metal grinding. A little googling has let me know that this stuff is PTFE.

I'm curious as to whether or not this is easy to apply in the manner that I need it and if can I buy it at any well stocked hardware store.

 

[RMboy]

Hi Mate

I don't see why you could not do it. I'm sure someone would.

I would be surprised if you could do it yourself...

However it would be the cost. if you only doing a few, the cost maybe very high :-S

Brass is self lubricating, but you are right metal on metal not a good idea. Can you not just buy some bushings?

 

[Wa-Aw]

Thanks for the quick reply!

It's a non-standard eye-let (CCDB) and I live in the Philippines so it's too cheap to not try!

I initially thought of getting a small reducer ring so a normal bushing would fit but it would have to be very thin, around 2mm.

I know nothing of this PTFE and the forms that it comes in. My question was, what do I ask for at the hardware store? I assume it would be some kind of liquid coating that dries. Is this teflon?

 

[jonKranked]

PTFE = polytetrafluoroethylene. Low friction, low reactivity polymer. Commercially, its most commonly known as Teflon.

 

[jonKranked]

I know nothing of this PTFE and the forms that it comes in. My question was, what do I ask for at the hardware store? I assume it would be some kind of liquid coating that dries. Is this teflon?

The liquid version would probably work, but you'd need to keep applying it after every few rides. Find a hunk of solid ptfe/teflon and have the machine shop mill it down to fit, will also help to keep the tolerances (kind of important for shock bushings).

 

[Udi]

I would imagine that the coating you see on DU bushings is applied with a special process, and the thickness of the coating would also be factored in when machining the ID of the bushing. I would be impressed if you could replicate this yourself without special tools / processes.

Is there any reason you cannot just buy a bushing from Cane Creek? They make standard 12.7mm ID bushings that fit in their nonstandard eyelets, I know because I had a bunch of spares (actually sent a couple to a member on here a while back). I'm sure if you emailed Malcolm he would send you some.

I suppose you can always try it and see, if it fails all you'll really damage is your shock reducers, and you obviously have the resources to make those yourself anyway.

 

[Wa-Aw]

Most helpful jonKranked. Does teflon come in any commercial form between liquid lubricants and solid bushing material? Maybe a thick paste that dries?

Also, what if I just got the entire bushing made of teflon?

I suppose you can always try it and see, if it fails all you'll really damage is your shock reducers, and you obviously have the resources to make those yourself anyway.

Main reason why I'm doing this, really!

And I pay 1/20th the price and don't have to wait 'till next week to ride! If it works...

Judging by the number of times "Email Malcom" or "Call Malcolm" comes up on this forum, this guy must be pretty busy. The only Cane Creek bushings I've found online are from TF tuned which seem to come with reducers for the shock hardware, which I don't need. I haven't found the bushings on the cane creek store. Do I have to contact them to order?

 

[jonKranked]

Most helpful jonKranked. Does teflon come in any commercial form between liquid lubricants and solid bushing material? Maybe a thick paste that dries?

i'm pretty sure its available as a paste, but you'd still be reapplying it on a regular basis like the liquid.

solid form will be your best bet.

Also, what if I just got the entire bushing made of teflon?

i'm pretty sure its too soft for the entire bushing to be made out of it.

 

[NuMexJoe]

My recollection from a "what chain lube?" thread was that Teflon needs to baked on at some specific temperature in order for it plate out onto a surface so that's it's semi-permanent (like a frying pan). Thus, for low-temp applications like chain lube and bushing interfaces, molybdenum disulfide is a better choice. But don't take my word for it, as I'm going from memory. Googling "teflon vs. molybdenum disulfide" might yield some good info.

 

[baca262]

how about you try to track down some sintered bronze, it keeps the oil in it. i believe you couldn't simply use pure teflon ones because teflon is too soft and creeps with time... there is glass filled teflon out there but i don't know would it be hard enough.

i'd go for the sintered bronze, it's ideally suited.

http://www.lm-tarbell.com/machining_sintered_bronze.htm

 

[bullcrew]

Its used on avalanches internals etc and fork stanchions. Well trade name tm-88 company out of Chicago distributes it. Dip for 1the minute bake at 400 degrees for 30 minutes and it will be slippery. Another was tm-8 didn't require baking but didn't last as long either. Used to apply it to contract stuff and other when I was in anodizing we brought in the tanks and chemistry/ovens to do it.
Wanted to do a frame so it would wipe clean and reduce scuffing and chaffing (mainly cause I could )

 

[Udi]

Judging by the number of times "Email Malcom" or "Call Malcolm" comes up on this forum, this guy must be pretty busy. The only Cane Creek bushings I've found online are from TF tuned which seem to come with reducers for the shock hardware, which I don't need. I haven't found the bushings on the cane creek store. Do I have to contact them to order?

Have you actually tried emailing him?
He is a very kind and helpful guy if you get through to him. I got my bushings just on their own (no shock hardware).

 

[ocelot]

Some dude on ebay sells polymer bushings. I'm not sure whether they're teflon or not but they have worked well so far, nothing to complain about.
If you have access to a lathe, it should be very easy to do if you're patient enough and willing to scrap a couple pieces. I've tried making bushings to replace the needle bearings on my Turner DHR, but I had trouble boring the bushings to the right size so that the shaft could turn freely without being too tight. Out of the 5 that I've made, only 1 was perfect...

 

[mtg]

You can buy a spray can of PTFE, search for Krytox RFE. I've used it before on stanctions, but honestly couldn't really notice an improvement. On a shock bushing, though, it probably wouldn't last long.

You may want to check into the oil impregnated bronze bushings, as mentioned above. Thats probably the most likely to succeed without spending a significant amount of cash.
As far as machining solid PTFE bushings, I wouldn't recommend that. It has a really low compressive strength, which means the shock mount hardware would crush an oval shape into a PTFE bushing pretty easily. If you use a brass bushing with aluminum reducer, galling is likely. Anti seize or maybe the moly lube mentioned above would probably help. If you venture outside of oil impregnated bronze, igus seems to be a popular choice for something like this, or there are some "engineering plastics" that might work, but could get very pricey. Ie check out Quadrant Engineering Plastics, they make a bunch of plastics that could probably work, but if cost is your main goal....maybe skip that route.

And, as mentioned by Ocelot, tolerances on this sort of thing is tricky to get it right. Making several with slightly different diameters will probably be a good idea.

 

[Udi]

I'm all for making your own parts, but all the solutions suggested so far will either develop play prematurely, or wear out the reducer.

One idea I had that might work though, is simply making a new 'reducer' that will let you fit a standard Fox/RS DU bushing into the CC eyelet. You would probably make it out of steel.

This is easier said than done as the difference in radius (and thus wall thickness) is very small, but what you could do is lathe down the OD of a Fox bushing (as much as you safely can, maybe only 0.3-0.4mm) - and then make your 'reducer' to take up the space between the (15.9mm ID) CC eyelet and your bushing. Of course this assumes you have Fox bushings available - but they are very common, industrial part number is 08-DP-08. DP is the red coating.

If you could do this, you would have a solution that would not develop play, not wear out the reducer, and work just as well as the correct part.

 

[p-spec]

I used to be in assembly in the valve industry,I've assembled PTFE seats with stainless steel discs before for wtv application ( corrosive,media,potable water,water etc. )

 

[jonKranked]

I used to be in assembly in the valve industry,I've assembled PTFE seats with stainless steel discs before for wtv application ( corrosive,media,potable water,water etc. )

View attachment 110084

cool story bro.

 

[p-spec]

answers his question if it works or not.

Wana bromance ?

 

[jonKranked]

answers his question if it works or not.

not in the slightest.

 

[p-spec]

Will need mold

to get good results like such

 

[bullcrew]

not in the slightest.

How bout if he coats it with Teflon that smells like bacon?

 

[ruralrider]

You can find some teflon tape. Its used where I work and it seems pretty tough. I guess you could cut it down to size and sick it inside the eyelet, it comes in different mil or thickness or just layer it on if it isnt thick enough. Its possible that it can work, also it looks pretty cheap for a roll (5usd).

 

[Greg]

You don't have to "call Malcolm". Just call CaneCreek and order the bushings and the tool if you don't have one. I'm from Norway and and it took me few minutes to make an order and after 7-10 days I had them in my mail.

CC is very easy to deal with and they always answer on phone calls.

 

[Udi]

CCDB Bushings:
http://www.tftunedshox.com/Catalogue/Shop-Cane-Creek/Cane-Creek-Double-Barrel-2/Cane-Creek-Mounts-Bushes-and-Tools-Copy/Norglide-Bushing-CCDB11263

Everything else:
http://www.tftunedshox.com/Catalogue/Shop-Cane-Creek/Cane-Creek-Double-Barrel-2/Cane-Creek-Mounts-Bushes-and-Tools-Copy

I'd imagine they'd be cheaper through Malcolm, but thought I'd post it up in case anyone else was looking to buy them online.

 

[Wa-Aw]

I emailed Malcolm and he replied me the next day (wow!) with where best to get bushings and such with my remote location. Gave the same link. I will order some but it maybe a few weeks till they're actually with me.

I installed the brass bushings and surprisingly they work perfectly fine. Very low friction, no noise and no play. I doubt the "no-play" part will last long as it is metal on metal in there, assisted with wads of slick honey though. It will have to for the mean time!

Good ol' bottom out test:


and some new-bike back yard testing:

 

[Wa-Aw]

After a few weeks I'm quite surprised by the simple brass bushings. No play. No noise. No sticktion (how the hell do you spell this word!?)

Actually afraid to open it up and see what's wrong as it shouldn't have lasted this long without complaint.

 

[MrPlow]

i'm pretty sure its available as a paste, but you'd still be reapplying it on a regular basis like the liquid.

solid form will be your best bet.



i'm pretty sure its too soft for the entire bushing to be made out of it.

This is true. Not so much "soft"but not tough enough. It would certainly just flog to bits.
Your best bet would be oil impregnated nylon, you can get all different grades. You will need something hard! if you want to got that way.
Personally, I would just use 6061 and give it a bit of grease. I have done this. No worries.
UHMWPE could be worth a shot, but beware I have used some of these plastics in industrial applications and it has worn the steel it was sliding against. Wouldn't be too cool on your CCDB.

 

[atrokz]

Personally, I would just use 6061 and give it a bit of grease. I have done this. No worries.

If you're going metal, you're going Alu-bronze at the very least, and idealy an oil impregnated bronze like 'selflube'. 6061 is not a good bushing material, grease or no grease.

 

[Mark]

Hi,

Does anyone have Malcom's email address? I've got a nearly new CCDB that has the upper eyelet machined out of tolerance so the spherical bearing can be pushed in by hand. I've measured both and the eyelet seems to be bang on 16mm while the bearing is just a tad under 16mm giving a slip fit. I measured the lower eyelet for comparison, which presses in fine and this averages out at 15.9mm. Thought about using loctite retaining compound on it but wondered if Cane Creek might be able to help me out, even though I'm fully aware they don't have to given that I'm not the original owner.

Many thanks.

 

[bullcrew]

Delron would work also if you got it milled down. We use it on the sway bars on the off road trucks and the links/a arms from time to time over hiem joints mainly prerunners...

Glad to see it worked I see brass used in metal contact applications sometimes and works good.

Spelled - Stiction

 

[atrokz]

Delrin? acetal polyoxymethylene resin?

It is a good bushing material for many use cases. Haven't heard of Delron.

And yup, alu-bronze or oil impregnated bronze are the ideal bushing materials for a shock bush if the proper bushing can't be sourced. Reason is they will take more abuse than delrin/nylon/etc.

 

[p-spec]

alu-bronze costs a **** load

 

[atrokz]

alu-bronze costs a **** load

Compared to?

You can buy an offcut with enough material for clamping to make 2 bushings for about $10.

 

[bullcrew]

Delrin? acetal polyoxymethylene resin?

It is a good bushing material for many use cases. Haven't heard of Delron.

c.

Yes delrin, delron is a guy named ron who works at dell its his cool guy bar name for picking up chicks.


And yes brass material as stated if memory serves is used by Toyota in the pitman arms for steering on 90-95 Toyota trucks and 4 runners.