Public service announcement from Marzocchi USA
- Thread starter Ridemonkey
- Start date
Not buying a product that can be demonstrated to perform as expected [or better] because of the actions of a single individual who works for [in, at, etc] is a personal choice that makes very little sense to me.
One caveat: if the actions were versus myself or a friend, i would have justifiable personal issues.
However, said issues would be with the individual, not the product.
Now, if the product performed below expectations, then it's pretty straightforward.
Steve Jobs is an ass. Bill Gates is an ass. Ken Thompson is an ass.
Damn. Now i can't use any computers anymore because i'm making an emotional response [see illogical] to a perceived social injustice.
[size=large]My position:[/size]
1) Bryson should not have sent any email at all. Obviously, he is too emotionally involved and reacts with a knee-jerk [emphasis on the jerk]. What he should have done is get someone in the company who's job actually encompasses PR work to write the necessary notification. That's what you have a sales and marketing department for in the first place.
To wit: Brian P. Duh.
2) Tom, you too. Feel free to express your opinions. Remember that they reflect on you and your job. Technical Director doesn't need to involve himself in this sort of thing. Quite frankly, it's unprofessional and a waste of your time.
3) Aaron [RM]: admittedly, it was a punkass letter that you received. I don't think posting it was, however, a good idea. While to the majority of us 'users' you come off just peachy, the position of posting your private emails would make me [if i were not working a different industry entirely now] extremely hesitant to exchange any such communication with you.
There is precedent for this on many other sites [somethingawful.com for instance] and i'm not citing you for it. It's actually entertaining, in the same way a road accident is.
But, because i play devil's advocate: You had a chance to take the higher road here and you didn't.
In the long run, engineers should have restricted access to the public, and public access mavens such as you and Freak should ignore most of the spittle that comes from the wrong mouthpieces.
I remember how turdesque stratos became when the 'owner-engineer' downsized his marketing department to zero.
now, that was a road accident i just couldn't drag my eyes away from.
One caveat: if the actions were versus myself or a friend, i would have justifiable personal issues.
However, said issues would be with the individual, not the product.
Now, if the product performed below expectations, then it's pretty straightforward.
Steve Jobs is an ass. Bill Gates is an ass. Ken Thompson is an ass.
Damn. Now i can't use any computers anymore because i'm making an emotional response [see illogical] to a perceived social injustice.
[size=large]My position:[/size]
1) Bryson should not have sent any email at all. Obviously, he is too emotionally involved and reacts with a knee-jerk [emphasis on the jerk]. What he should have done is get someone in the company who's job actually encompasses PR work to write the necessary notification. That's what you have a sales and marketing department for in the first place.
To wit: Brian P. Duh.
2) Tom, you too. Feel free to express your opinions. Remember that they reflect on you and your job. Technical Director doesn't need to involve himself in this sort of thing. Quite frankly, it's unprofessional and a waste of your time.
3) Aaron [RM]: admittedly, it was a punkass letter that you received. I don't think posting it was, however, a good idea. While to the majority of us 'users' you come off just peachy, the position of posting your private emails would make me [if i were not working a different industry entirely now] extremely hesitant to exchange any such communication with you.
There is precedent for this on many other sites [somethingawful.com for instance] and i'm not citing you for it. It's actually entertaining, in the same way a road accident is.
But, because i play devil's advocate: You had a chance to take the higher road here and you didn't.
In the long run, engineers should have restricted access to the public, and public access mavens such as you and Freak should ignore most of the spittle that comes from the wrong mouthpieces.
I remember how turdesque stratos became when the 'owner-engineer' downsized his marketing department to zero.
now, that was a road accident i just couldn't drag my eyes away from.
That is exactly the response I was hoping for. I don't want any more emails from Marzocchi - so hopefully mission accomplished.
Let me see if I get this straight.... RM prides himself on having industry insiders and such reading his site, but wants no communication from them?
Yes, the email was wrong and IMO misdirected, but much like people who feel Bryson has an attitude the universe revolves around him, I have seen a similar attitude from web site owners.
Two wrongs don't make a right.....
Brian
Yes, the email was wrong and IMO misdirected, but much like people who feel Bryson has an attitude the universe revolves around him, I have seen a similar attitude from web site owners.
Two wrongs don't make a right.....
Brian
You can buy a fork from a different company, but I'm sure I am speaking for all my competitors as well as everyone in this industry. The Taiwan Bike Show is an industry show, not a public one. There are strict rules about taking photos of products that will or will not be released in the future. Futhermore, there was a posting of my 2005 OEM book as well as Rock Shox's, both of which contain confidential information. Do you feel that is OK? Is it correct that someone thought it was cute to take the time to scan the books and post them? I'm not bent about the photo as much as the books from both Rock Shox and Marzocchi. I am also not pleased with the fact that Web Sites who are part of the Moutain Bike Industry have no issue with this. I'm sure you would feel the same as I do if you spend all year working on a complete line of kick ass products and someone takes a confidential 30 page book containing specs, drawings, technology, etc and posts it online.Originally posted by Lexx D
Makes me not want to buy another marz. Don't threaten legal action over a couple of photos. It's bullshyt to act this way when it was your company that put the product out there. It doesn't matter what country it was in.
Like I said, it makes me want to buy my next fork from a different company
Think about it.
Hey Bryson,
We totally see your side about posting the confidential stuff, and of course it should not have been posted. But please see ours also. We can not monitor every single post on this forum, much less know if something is confidential or not if we can't see that it says it's confidential.
The Sram/Rockshox post got deleted without any problems after a nice e-mail was received by myself and the circumstances were explained in a nice manner.
Your e-mail however was pretty harsh, and threatening. Should we all work together on issues like this instead of threatening lawsuit e-mails?
It's not about anger, it's about industry wide common sense. This web site is supposed to be part of the industry and with that comes some responsibility. Do you think posting an entire 2005 OEM book from both Rock Shox and Marzocchi is an act of industry common sense? Am I wrong to be pissed-off about companies not acting in a professional manner? I am not just speaking for myself or Marzocchi, I'm sure I have the voice for the entire industry when it comes to confidential information being posted on a web sites. Web sites such as Ride Monkey are great and with that greatness comes a sense of responsibility for this incredible industry. You obviously love mountian bikes, but so do I, I have done nothing for the last 25 years but focus 100% on riding, designing, promoting, and occasionally working in the world of bicycles and I'm sure if you really understood what I am saying, you would feel the same and you would ride with me.
Bryson
well since bomber dropped the swiss cheese arch it was obvious to me their stuff was becoming overhyped and they were turning into a money greedy bizness.
Oh well maybe Manitou or RS has comething cool to offer now...
Christian
Oh well maybe Manitou or RS has comething cool to offer now...
Christian
It's hylarious how you're convinced that RM actually OWES you something!!!!!!!!!
Maybe if they bought ad space...
It goes to show you the unprofessionalism I was so pissed about. I knew he would post my e-mail, this type of retaliation its just what an insecure person would do in hopes that it would make me feel like I did something wrong. Ride Monkey should have a sense of responsibility for posting confidential information, I am sure the hard working folks at Ride Monkey would be fine with someone getting a copy of thier business plan, or personal e-mails, or customer lists, or how much money they are making from advertisers and posting it online. Do you think a Ride Monkey executive would take it in stride or maybe they would find it unprofessional and fire off an e-mail about it.
then why did you SEND him that email????
Looks like you're having issues taking responsabilities for things YOU do.
"SEE!!! MY EMAIL IS MAKING CUSTOMERS MAD!!! LET'S SUE RIDEMONKEY!"
what the hell ever dude!!!
Looks like you're having issues taking responsabilities for things YOU do.
"SEE!!! MY EMAIL IS MAKING CUSTOMERS MAD!!! LET'S SUE RIDEMONKEY!"
what the hell ever dude!!!
this is making me REAL mad cause i love marzocchi forks!!!!!
Me Too.Originally posted by Shortbus
this is making me REAL mad cause i love marzocchi forks!!!!!
The reason I fired-off a Bomber e-mail was that I was told by some of my Europen staff that they contacted the site and they were told none of the photos or information will be removed. This of course fired me up and I threatened legal action if you planned on not removing our confidential information. So I can at least say I'm sorry if my information was wrong and my first e-mail to you was harsh. But you can't hide from issue that you can't monitor the information that is displayed on this site. Ride Monkey is read by everyone around the world, when my info was posted I received e-mails from persons around the globe concerned about it.
Originally posted by brysonm
It goes to show you the unprofessionalism I was so pissed about.
Didn't you start all this with your email referring to his "unprofessional act of stupidity?"
Ride Monkey should have a sense of responsibility for posting confidential information
The pictures were removed, what more do you want?
Do you think a Ride Monkey executive would take it in stride or maybe they would find it unprofessional and fire off an e-mail about it.
You're missing the point. The problem wasn't that you sent an email, it's that you sent an email attacking him.
It goes to show you the unprofessionalism I was so pissed about.
Didn't you start all this with your email referring to his "unprofessional act of stupidity?"
Ride Monkey should have a sense of responsibility for posting confidential information
The pictures were removed, what more do you want?
Do you think a Ride Monkey executive would take it in stride or maybe they would find it unprofessional and fire off an e-mail about it.
You're missing the point. The problem wasn't that you sent an email, it's that you sent an email attacking him.
DUDE!!!! you WROTE THE FORKING EMAIL!!!!
holy jesus this is making me all fired up
YOU WROTE THAT EMAIL
it's not Ridemonkey's fault your email was nasty and sucks a$$
Don't write nasty emails and you won't get nasty emails back
JESUS
why don't you sue walmart while you're at it.,
holy jesus this is making me all fired up
YOU WROTE THAT EMAIL
it's not Ridemonkey's fault your email was nasty and sucks a$$
Don't write nasty emails and you won't get nasty emails back
JESUS
why don't you sue walmart while you're at it.,
I don't think it was sent to the wrong person. RM is the owner of the site and bringing the unauthorized information to his attention is exactly what Bryson should have done.
You're right that the letter never should have left his computer. A vice president of anything from a large company like Marzocchi should be capable of being professional and courteous. The "to whom it may concern" heading suggests that this letter was probably sent to several message board administrators and not solely to RM. I can understand his anger, but to lash out and threaten people rather than handling the situation tactfully just seems foolish to me.
I ride A shiver DC now. I love it. I will probably buy another if i ever kill this one.....my point is for you to lash out and threaten with legal action is crazy. I saw the picture and instantly wanted one. Even if it's not until 2008, that is where my problem is. This posting was advertising and sold me along with numerous other monkey's. I understand you were mad but again to threaten legal action toward the people who spend money on your produst is just.....
I can't say that I know anything about the 1st e-mail from the European staff. I know I didn't receive anything, of course it could have just been sent to a different e-mail account.
As far as us being able or not able to monitor the site completely, well, we both have other full time jobs outside of the industry so we can't monitor everything that goes on. Now if we had a lot more paying advertisers (trust me, there aren't very many) then maybe we could quit our day job and monitor all of the posts.
But anyway, in the future if something that's confidential gets posted, just fire off a POLITE e-mail and it will get removed.
Chrome, do something!!!!!! I'm ready to take my super T apart with a blow torch and punch it down my garbage disposal!!!!
Is that what what I pride myself on? News to me. There's lots of companies I'm happy to have correspondence with. Marzocchi is not one of them - unless the Marz crew learns some tact.
Oh ferchrissakes...I don't agree with this position either.
Can't everyone just pack up their bruised egos, go home for nappytime and come out to play later as if nothing happened? That worked well enough when we were children. Why does it grow more difficult to bury grudges as we grow in age and(supposedly) wisdom?
I don't get it. Marzocchi has benefited from hundreds of threads on this site - and the only thing I have ever gotten from them in return is an email threatening legal action? I simply have no interest in the company. What's the big deal?Originally posted by llkoolkeg
Oh ferchrissakes...I don't agree with this position either.
Can't everyone just pack up their bruised egos, go home for nappytime and come out to play later as if nothing happened? That worked well enough when we were children. Why does it grow more difficult to bury grudges as we grow in age and(supposedly) wisdom?
neaky:
Everybody have fun!!! I'm going to help teach riding techniques to some Jr High students!!!
L8r!
freak@ridemonkey.com
L8r!
freak@ridemonkey.com
They will probably benifit from these pictures in question, the only real damage (before this mess) was a bunch of 16yr olds will be e-mailing Marz. for the next couple months asking if their DJ is tall enough for a 3" tire.
going to go hang out with a more mature crowed than this i see
J
JRB
Guest
So it was one email? While he may not have been tactful, he had every right to send an email. It wasn't directed at any one person. Posting the email is the part that stumps me. I don't think it is cool when anyone posts and email or PM that anyone sends in confidence. His specs were posted and that is a huge deal. You have to understand his point. We have all lashed out. Do I think his email was cool? No. Do I think that this thread is justified? Absolutely not.
I made my position known on the emails(not that anyone should really care what it is). It made the sender and his VP appear foolish. If Marzocchi benefits from threads, though, it's because they make a great product that people like and talk up. I know that I've said both good and bad things about their stuff based upon my assessment of their respective product merits. What exactly are you expecting from them? An apology? Not likely. Ad revenues? If they don't advertise here, that's certainly within their rights. Lots of companies have benefitted from threads on websites they don't advertise on just as lots have been hurt by them. I know that I am having a hell of a time practically giving away a very nice frame made by a company that has suffered mightily from negative online publicity(shameless, shameless, plug, plug, plug
) I was basically just saying that it is never a bad thing to maintain good or at least open relations with major players in your industry. Even though you personally may have no interest in them, lots of people on RM like Zokes products and benefit from a cordial relationship with their insiders, most notably, Brian P. I know that I would personally miss Brian sharing the knowledge if he went away because he felt unwelcome here. I'm not trying to tell you how to run your business...just offering the courteous and friendly advice people have come to expect from me. 
Goddamn guys. This whole thing upsets me. Nice people are getting REALLY bent out of shape over what amounts to bad communication and tact. Mellow the f**k out!
I love Ridemonkey, I love Marzocchi, I don't want to choose a favorite.
Everyone: Go ride your bikes and pretend this didn't happen, we'll all be better off.
"I hate it when Mommy and Daddy fight "
I love Ridemonkey, I love Marzocchi, I don't want to choose a favorite.
Everyone: Go ride your bikes and pretend this didn't happen, we'll all be better off.
"I hate it when Mommy and Daddy fight
"
Originally posted by Zark
"I hate it when Mommy and Daddy fight
Is your name Luca? Do you live on the second floor?Originally posted by Zark
"I hate it when Mommy and Daddy fight
These are my last comments on this thread:
1. Ever since Bryson sent that absurd email to MBA a while back - I've wondered what the heck is up with this guy. When I get a similarly absurd email, I decide that he needs to learn that if he treats everyone around him with contempt - that eventually its going to catch up with him.
2. There are 10 good companies for every one that acts like Marz. I'll deal with that other 10.
3. I don't want an apology. I don't want anything from them. But I definately DO NOT want any more emails from Bryson. Hopefully this thread took care of that problem.
4. I'm not telling anyone to not buy Marzocchi products - that would be absurd.
Bryson likes to swagger around like he's king turd of this industry - and I've made it clear that he can swagger elsewhere.
End of story.
1. Ever since Bryson sent that absurd email to MBA a while back - I've wondered what the heck is up with this guy. When I get a similarly absurd email, I decide that he needs to learn that if he treats everyone around him with contempt - that eventually its going to catch up with him.
2. There are 10 good companies for every one that acts like Marz. I'll deal with that other 10.
3. I don't want an apology. I don't want anything from them. But I definately DO NOT want any more emails from Bryson. Hopefully this thread took care of that problem.
4. I'm not telling anyone to not buy Marzocchi products - that would be absurd.
Bryson likes to swagger around like he's king turd of this industry - and I've made it clear that he can swagger elsewhere.
End of story.