Changleen said:
you don't ??????
what about the royal Fox hunts ???
Quacking under pressure...
- Thread starter bluebug32
- Start date
you don't ??????
what about the royal Fox hunts ???
This is not, and never will be, an effective way to argue.robdamanii said:
You can push extremes in any direction.
When you have ants or spiders, do you let them live out their lives in your house just because they are living creatures? If you have mice chewing holes in the walls, do you allow them to continue? Do you let roaches live under your 'fridge?
Are all of these stupid comparisons to a dog? Of course they are. Just like yours.
On the subject... it seems like a huge waste. I would think there would be effective ways of training dogs that didn't involve the slaughter of a dozen ducks. Even so, all that meat shouldn't go to waste.
Hey Robeth!
Here is my stand on this whole issue. Personally I don't really care that they kill ducks. If they don't do it at Stewart they'll do it somewhere else. I think Splat made a good point about getting into a battle over use of the land. I would say there is a good chance you won't get the results you are looking for. The dog training people were a HUGE factor in keeping the buffer zone open, as I've explained to you before. So to some extent you have them to thank for being able to ride there. Stirring the pot because you don't like that they are killing ducks may lead to the pot overboiling and negatively effecting our ability to ride there as well.
HOWEVER!!!!!!!
I have dealt with the dog trainers for years at the buffer zone and the relationship has not always been symbiotic. Personally I don't know exactly what they do there, every thing I do know about what they do there is just rumors from people I've bumped into on the trail.
I think the proper way to look at there use of the buffer zone is from a saftey aspect. If they are in fact using live rounds they could pose a serious danger to the other people using the lands. Also they poorly mark the area's they are using and many times miss marking trails that cross the "hunting" range. When they do events at the buffer they are spread out all over the place and you never know where they are training. It would be great if they made a designated area for just dog training that was clearly marked or entire off limits to anybody else.
As a side note, I think that the deterioration of trail system to do the fact that there is no trail maintenance being done anywhere and the dirtbikes and quads are running rampant, is more of a problem than the dog trainers. Just my 2cents!
Here is my stand on this whole issue. Personally I don't really care that they kill ducks. If they don't do it at Stewart they'll do it somewhere else. I think Splat made a good point about getting into a battle over use of the land. I would say there is a good chance you won't get the results you are looking for. The dog training people were a HUGE factor in keeping the buffer zone open, as I've explained to you before. So to some extent you have them to thank for being able to ride there. Stirring the pot because you don't like that they are killing ducks may lead to the pot overboiling and negatively effecting our ability to ride there as well.
HOWEVER!!!!!!!
I have dealt with the dog trainers for years at the buffer zone and the relationship has not always been symbiotic. Personally I don't know exactly what they do there, every thing I do know about what they do there is just rumors from people I've bumped into on the trail.
I think the proper way to look at there use of the buffer zone is from a saftey aspect. If they are in fact using live rounds they could pose a serious danger to the other people using the lands. Also they poorly mark the area's they are using and many times miss marking trails that cross the "hunting" range. When they do events at the buffer they are spread out all over the place and you never know where they are training. It would be great if they made a designated area for just dog training that was clearly marked or entire off limits to anybody else.
As a side note, I think that the deterioration of trail system to do the fact that there is no trail maintenance being done anywhere and the dirtbikes and quads are running rampant, is more of a problem than the dog trainers. Just my 2cents!
I can see the headlines now!!!!
EXTRA EXTRA!!!!
TOTAL MORON WANNABE TREEHUGGER HAS MTB TRAILS CLOSED PERMANENTLY!!!!!
Dude, they are ducks, get them shot & on my plate..............STAT!!!!!!!
EXTRA EXTRA!!!!
TOTAL MORON WANNABE TREEHUGGER HAS MTB TRAILS CLOSED PERMANENTLY!!!!!
Dude, they are ducks, get them shot & on my plate..............STAT!!!!!!!
Hey man quit being a jerk!Brian HCM#1 said:
They have a vaild concern and at least they are making an attempt to do something about it.
It's good that they are looking at what can and can't happen by approaching the DEC first. They didn't go in with guns blazing they just raised the question.
I'm not being a jerk.stosh said:
Obviously that place is designated for this type of activity, did you ever think of that? I'm almost 100% positive some sort of local approval has been done for this. If they are concerned stay away!!! Check with the local authority if this is a seasonal thing so they can stay away. It's pretty damn straight forward.
I wouldn't go so far as saying they are doing something about it by ranting on ridemonkey, but I do understand Rob's passion. Like I said though, there are better things to be passionate about, IMO. I had a lady scream at me one day for roping cattle and dragging them in the trailer. It was cold and wet. Guess what she got? She got yelled at and insulted, along with an invite to get the f**k off of our place. I wasn't doing anything wrong, but I ripped her head off. Just imagine the reaction from people that are used to being criticized.stosh said:
You're right about Brian being a jerk to Rob. That game is a pretty lame duck.
Won't somebody think of the eggs?
Do ducks have stem cells?fluff said:
But which one came first.............The duck or the egg???????????fluff said:
Actually it's not cut and dry.Brian HCM#1 said:
The lands have changes hands many times recently. The property is under endless attacks form developers. The DEC just recently took over the property from some other NYS agency. The rules of the land are always changing. These dog trainers are one of the few groups allowed in year round.
If it was easy to know when they will be there and more importantly where they will be it would be easy to stay away but that isn't the case.
How the duck should I know?DRB said:
Did you read my long post in this thread?pepe said:
Anyway I'm glad they posted it on RM so they could try to think of a better way to go about curbing/restricting these people.
People on here have experience fighting for open lands and it's a great venue for air'ing ideas.
AFLAC!
i have a cousin who is about 7 now. when he was younger and my aunt was teaching him words about the sounds animals make, he actually thought ducks said "aflac!" cow says moo, dog says woof, duck says aflac. it was priceless
i have a cousin who is about 7 now. when he was younger and my aunt was teaching him words about the sounds animals make, he actually thought ducks said "aflac!" cow says moo, dog says woof, duck says aflac. it was priceless
I would expect more from a Brit.fluff said:
Why??SkaredShtles said:I would expect more from a Brit.
Well it does seem cut & dry for now, with the dog activity. What do developers have to do with this? A strip mall residential housing? If that's the case and you like riding there, better leave well enough alone so you have a place to ride. To me that's cut & dry.stosh said:
stosh said:
Who was there first? I am sure it's the duck guys. We have killed ducks longer than we have ridden bikes. Why should they be restricted? Has anyone been hurt? WTF do people with bikes think it's their land? We have all tried to rationalize with Rob, but it's apparent that the largest part of the problem is that you guys think it's your park. It's not. It's shared land. As soon as you deal with that fact in your mind, the happier you'll be.
Just stay away from barking, quacking and the sound of guns.
So... You feel like it's your right to try and curb or restrict "these people". That's wonderful. That's the same way the radicals in the Sierra club feel about you.stosh said:
Why do you need to fight for the land? If it's free for both uses, then you need to learn to coexist, not to fight for it. Fighting for it is a great way to promote a poor, negative view of the mountain bikers. Can you imagine what these people are thinking?
"We've been coming here for years now, and we leave the mountain bikers alone. These mountain biker idiots can't even learn how to share the land, and now they're trying to kick us out. What a bunch of jerks."
And you know what? They'd be right.
Just because you disagree with something on a moral basis doesn't mean you should march in there feeling like you're somehow entitled to change their behavior.
Plus ducks make a nice accessory for your evening wear.
Was that really necessary?Brian HCM#1 said:
There are some geese in there too. How would you like to be the loser with no birds?
I guess I'd feel like...........Robpepe said:
Yes - but I apparently don't recall any of it. I'll do that now. How's it feel talking to someone that didn't read or remember the thread? :eviltongustosh said:
Duck......... duck........... duck................Brian HCM#1 said:Plus ducks make a nice accessory for your evening wear.
GOOSE!!
Then maybe Rob & Beth should be working with the hunters to make it safer for other hunters, hikers & bikers, by posting warning signs. Now that's more productive.stosh said:
Your long post was fine. You want clearly marked boundaries and warning signs when live ammo is being fired.stosh said:
Though you did state that you've never seen it, and all you've heard was rumors, so...
So IF there is a valid safety concern about the live ammo (and that's a big if, rumors of people who are killing ducks are very likely to be exaggerated and downright untrue), just open up a dialogue with the hunters. Don't be aggressive. Just state that there are safety concerns about their live ammunition and you'd like to try and come to a compromise that would allow all of you to share the land and be safe doing it.
But you aren't there to "curb" or "restrict" their behavior. Just to make sure everything is done in a safe manner.
stosh said:
wow, my thread has turned into an NRA rally of sorts...
Anyway, Stosh I agree. There's a very thin line that has to walked here. I was actually the one who spoke to the DEC forrester yesterday and he was very concerned that the hunters are being sloppy in roping off the areas they'er using live rounds in. He also said that they post who's going to use the land that weekend, but he said people who frequently use the area, don't see the kiosk on the way in and check the board. So, he suggested rethinking where they post. He also said that under no means are they allowed to leave the dead ducks on the land. That's a violation of their permit. Apparently there are four group who use that land. It's supposed to be one tiny parcel that they're allowed to do this on. It seems like they keep shifting this area however and that's something worth fighting for so we don't have to worry about where we ride.
I just want to point out that we are talking about duck shells here. You have to be pretty close to take one for the team from a shotgun. I'm not saying you can't, but it's not a 30/30. You are not likely to be shot riding by bird hunters. Unless, of course, you are hunting with Cheney.
I read your post, Stosh. It sounds like you guys owe a little bit to the hunters. If you play the danger card, you guys will lose access to some land. There are way more hunters than cyclists. They will just say you can't ride in that area. It will be that simple.
I'm gratful to be able to ride at Stewart. For years, it looked like it would turn into a parking lot or a housing development. I think we can all share the land and I respect that all people want to use the land for their sports (I don't agree with shooting ducks and then not eating them, but that's another point altogether). What I don't like, however, is that Nov. 1st rolls around and I'm not allowed to ride in Stewart anymore until spring. I respect that the hunters have their season, just as the mountain bikers have theirs. What bothers me is that these hunters are allowed in year-round, regardless of the safety hazard they're posing to other people who are trying to enjoy the land too.
bluebug32 said:
Please take note of the types of guns used. Rifles travel a long way. Shotguns typically do not. That is likely why it's restricted. I found out they hunt on some of our bike trails on the military reservation. I just don't go early morning or evening. I was pretty pissed that they never bothered to disclose that rifles were being shot there.
Brian HCM#1 said:
Yes, this prom ensemble from southern Louisiana is crying out for a dead duck or two!!!
Oh sweet Jesus.