[$tinkle]

we've been there longer than iraq, and NATO has been pretty ineffective at counter-insurgency. the tribalism (a necessary component for the aid & harboring of extremists) is pervasive, and pakistan has been equally ineffective for their part in the border regions. with little support for western ideologies, how can afghanistan be 'restored', or at least contained to the point of no longer needing a visible military presence?

 

[LordOpie]

...or at least contained to the point of no longer needing a visible military presence?

umm, that was NEVER the goal. This Admin -- and I agree with it -- wants a permanent and substantial military presence in the ME.

Also...


Hey, Bush, Osama, why don't you come on over and we'll talk about what's bugging you two?

 

[$tinkle]

we've seen that the most effective military operations occur when we strike hard, fast, and with what can best be called 'moral clarity' (e.g., bombing the snot out of the taliban in tora bora). this is most effectively realized w/ our navy & a.f., not 100,000 boots on the ground. (recall the soviets deployed 300,000 troops & still could not defeat the mujahadeen). yes, i realize we need a few guys to laze targets, but that's where your compact & low-pro tactical teams come in. i'm not sure having a sustained presence (through bases) in the ME is all that beneficial. if nothing else, it could fuel ideologies which exploit flashpoints of violence. specifically, i'm thinking of kobar towers in saudi arabia & marine barracks in beruit, attacks on which happened during supposed peace time. i guess i'm thinking there has to be a solution which is kind of like south america: we're overtly involved only when **** leaks over the borders (except, of course, for drugs).

i'm having difficulty in resolving how to deny sanctuary while also respecting sovereignty. bill kristol would not be proud of me today.

 

[jimmydean]

So where would you stage troops for Iran, then?

 

[$tinkle]

So where would you stage troops for Iran, then?

i think that's a walk-in-take-over type deal. the nightclub sector would see positive short-term gains which can only be sustained if the jews do the books.

 

[Toshi]

umm, that was NEVER the goal. This Admin -- and I agree with it -- wants a permanent and substantial military presence in the ME.

reading Zionist literature again, are we?

 

[LordOpie]

reading Zionist literature again, are we?

no, just PNAC.

 

[J-Dubs]

If they had wanted to kill Osama, they would have.
The strategy is to just marginalize him and his influence.

 

[Toshi]

no, just PNAC.

are you serious? you BELIEVE the neocons?

 

[Changleen]

$tinkle, WTF is this 'moral clarity' you speak of?

 

[Silver]

$tinkle, WTF is this 'moral clarity' you speak of?

Not being afraid to kill civilians who are in the way because we've been propping up their corrupt leaders.

 

[valve bouncer]

....don't forget to pack a wife.

 

[$tinkle]

$tinkle, WTF is this 'moral clarity' you speak of?

well, since you're the biggest drum beater of 'there is no black & white', you should appreciate the quoted 'reason'.

that is, if you can point to someone to whom everyone can agree is a bad guy, then you have 'moral clarity' (cf america==great satan)