[math2014]

Hi all

After seeing the amazing quality and rider-consiousness that Evil-E13 has i want to ask the following.

An E13 DRS,SRS etc, cost in the UK 135GBP, times 1.7 this makes us.... 229USD. Is that normal or the UK distributor rips us off?
(i took this price from an MBUK forum if i am not mistaken and i live in the UK).

Second, i want to run 3 rings, i have seens the new 3 ring chainguide from E13, and i am wondering, since i dont have ISGC mounts on my frame (Specialized SX), does this guide mount between the bb drive cup and the bb shell? If yes, is it safe for the bb cup not to be tightened face-to the bb-shell and to have the E13 guide in the middle? Also with this setup, will i screw up my chainline? It is perfect now at 47.5-48mm

Also , would it make an ideal chainguide (ideal for the application), to use an E13 bashguard (the one up to 44T) outside the big ring or i will have issues with the big-ring and the bashguard?

My plan is to keep my NS chainset as is, by simply adding the bashguard on the outside... but i dont know if that is feasible... to have 3 rings, 22-32-42 , the 3ring chainguide, and the e13 bashguard outside protecting the bigring.

Thanks.
Yannis.

 

[Tenacious Doug]

Yeah, thats the UK price. I imported from Go-Ride and saved myself about £40

Unfortunately the importer only deals direct with customers aswell, normally I would get through the shop where I work but not with the e13. Also sucks for those people that like to support their local store

 

[Tom DH]

But remember that all US prices are without VAT. I personally think that it is only worth importing something from the US if you cannot get it in the UK. I wouldn’t mine paying an extra £40 just in case anything goes wrong with it.
I bet frameworks isn’t ripping you of at that price everybody has to make a living and it is unfair to compare US prices against UK ones like that.

 

[ssaddict]

Without modification you cannot fit 3 rings plus a e13 bashguard on cranks, and you'd need to find longer chainring bolts than are currently avalible.

This is not to say it won't work, but you'd need to use a dremel and alot of time.

Your probably better off running a dual ring 26-36 or 28-38 and a large 11-34t cog stack, you get about the same gear range but a better chainline. If you use the DRS guide you also won't loose as much of your BB clearance and you shouldn't have to modify your cranks or guide.

 

[Tenacious Doug]

Originally posted by Tom DH
But remember that all US prices are without VAT. I personally think that it is only worth importing something from the US if you cannot get it in the UK. I wouldn’t mine paying an extra £40 just in case anything goes wrong with it.
I bet frameworks isn’t ripping you of at that price everybody has to make a living and it is unfair to compare US prices against UK ones like that.

Either way, I still saved £40. I dont see that much can go wrong with a chain device that will warrant sending it back, it is most likely to be caused by my incompetent fitting or even more incompetent riding!

On the subject of ripping us off, no I dont think it is a rip off, its similarly priced to MRP and the like. It's just in general we pay a premium in the UK for a whole number of reasons, for the chain device I didnt think that the premium was justified. Its not Frameworks/e13's fault, just the way it is.

What I dont like is that they dont deal with shops, I would love to sell them to customers in the store but I cant really tell them not to buy an MRP from us and instead give there money to someone else.

 

[math2014]

Originally posted by ssaddict
Without modification you cannot fit 3 rings plus a e13 bashguard on cranks, and you'd need to find longer chainring bolts than are currently avalible.

This is not to say it won't work, but you'd need to use a dremel and alot of time.

Your probably better off running a dual ring 26-36 or 28-38 and a large 11-34t cog stack, you get about the same gear range but a better chainline. If you use the DRS guide you also won't loose as much of your BB clearance and you shouldn't have to modify your cranks or guide.

So basically the 3-ring guide from e13 cannot be used with a bashguard "as-is". Its either the 3rs without bashguard or the DRS with bashguard right?

Also, lacking ISGC, do i have to fit the CG between bb cup and bb shell? and tighten the bb cups in order to secure the chainguide into place?


As for the UK prices, thanks guys, i didnt know that the American prices didnt include VAT. This makes a lot of difference.

 

[math2014]

Originally posted by Tenacious Doug
Either way, I still saved £40. I dont see that much can go wrong with a chain device that will warrant sending it back, it is most likely to be caused by my incompetent fitting or even more incompetent riding!

On the subject of ripping us off, no I dont think it is a rip off, its similarly priced to MRP and the like. It's just in general we pay a premium in the UK for a whole number of reasons, for the chain device I didnt think that the premium was justified. Its not Frameworks/e13's fault, just the way it is.

What I dont like is that they dont deal with shops, I would love to sell them to customers in the store but I cant really tell them not to buy an MRP from us and instead give there money to someone else.

So if i want an E13 i ll have to mailorder from thundersport???? This sucks, i am better off mail-ordering it from a US shop. I consider only LBS support, if it is mail order...then i am indifferent between the UK and the US, but LBS vs Mail...then LBS usually...

since if it is mail order... i ll get the same support from thundersport or e13 direct.

 

[dante]

Originally posted by ssaddict
Without modification you cannot fit 3 rings plus a e13 bashguard on cranks, and you'd need to find longer chainring bolts than are currently avalible.

This is not to say it won't work, but you'd need to use a dremel and alot of time.

Your probably better off running a dual ring 26-36 or 28-38 and a large 11-34t cog stack, you get about the same gear range but a better chainline. If you use the DRS guide you also won't loose as much of your BB clearance and you shouldn't have to modify your cranks or guide.

FYI, I think that shimano will shift a 12T difference, and that some people are actually doing a 14T difference. So you could get a 24/36 or a 26/38 and still be within shimano's range. 26/38 w/ an 11-34T cog would probably be the best.

dante

 

[ssaddict]

Originally posted by math2014
Its either the 3rs without bashguard or the DRS with bashguard right?

Also, lacking ISGC, do i have to fit the CG between bb cup and bb shell? and tighten the bb cups in order to secure the chainguide into place?

Yes, the 3rs is designed as a more as a XC guide, and the DRS more of a freeride setup. The problem is you can't fit a ring and the bash guard behind the crankarm, there is just not enough room without cutting a slot in the bashguard which would weaken it.

The boomerang mounts right behind the flange on the BB and as long as tighten it correctly it works great.

Originally posted by dante
FYI, I think that shimano will shift a 12T difference, and that some people are actually doing a 14T difference. So you could get a 24/36 or a 26/38 and still be within shimano's range. 26/38 w/ an 11-34T cog would probably be the best.

dante

Anything more than 10t and the shifting performance kind of starts to drop off.... but yes, you can probably get other combos to work pretty good too. If you arn't XC racing it probably won't make a bit of difference.

 

[Tom DH]

Originally posted by Tenacious Doug
Either way, I still saved £40. I dont see that much can go wrong with a chain device that will warrant sending it back, it is most likely to be caused by my incompetent fitting or even more incompetent riding!

On the subject of ripping us off, no I dont think it is a rip off, its similarly priced to MRP and the like. It's just in general we pay a premium in the UK for a whole number of reasons, for the chain device I didnt think that the premium was justified. Its not Frameworks/e13's fault, just the way it is.

What I dont like is that they dont deal with shops, I would love to sell them to customers in the store but I cant really tell them not to buy an MRP from us and instead give there money to someone else.

Yeah I agree with you with a chain device (especially an Evil) there isn’t much to go wrong with it. I was just making a general point that it not worth all the hassle of importing thing especially when it goes wrong. I have imported quite a bit of stuff from the US with out any problems but when you do get a problem it is a bloody nightmare. So that’s why I now think if you can get it in the UK you might as well unless you are going to save a good wedge.

I recon Frameworks don’t want to sell to shops, because his mark up isn’t that high. So if he were to sell onto the shops he would probably have to up his prices. But it would be grate to see Evil stuff in more shops in the UK, so even if he didn’t make as much profit of a guard selling it to a shop in the long run he would probably make is money bake in the number of sales.

 

[DßR]

Originally posted by ssaddict


Anything more than 10t and the shifting performance kind of starts to drop off.... but yes, you can probably get other combos to work pretty good too. If you arn't XC racing it probably won't make a bit of difference.

I have no problems at all with a 22/36 (14t diff.); it shifts great w/ no delays or bullcrap. I wouldn't hesitate to try a 22-38 either, although I have a sense that that would be pushing it. Maybe a roadie der. would work better for the bigger gaps....a 39/53 is a big gap....

 

[math2014]

hmmm so a 28-38 is enough for trail-riding? What is the usefullness of a big 42 ring then??? only for topspeeds in fireroads? i got 11-34 in the back as far as i can remember...

 

[DßR]

Originally posted by math2014
hmmm so a 28-38 is enough for trail-riding? What is the usefullness of a big 42 ring then??? only for topspeeds in fireroads? i got 11-34 in the back as far as i can remember...

Well, ask yourself this - how often do you use your big ring?

For me, never. It serves as nothing more than a bashring. So I don't really care if it gets trashed, or taken off, or whatever. A 36/11 is a tall enough gear for an XC bike or anything outside of DH racing; I use a 38/11 top gear on my DH bike.

If you don't use the big ring much, don't fret about taking it off, b/c you won't miss it.

 

[buildyourown]

I took the big ring off of my trail bike along time ago and never missed it. After I had my 11-34 for awhile, I realized I never used the granny gear either. So I took it off as well. That took care of the shifter and f. der. Maybe once in 10 rides I wish I still had it. Lighter and no chainsuck

 

[math2014]

Hmm i used my big ring once... on a road descent but thats about it. If a DH bike is using 38-11 then i guess that would be adequate for me... for trails and some dh/fr. Thing is that i could use some more stability on my chain that is why i am looking at chainguides. Will they affect a lot my riding with respect to friction and loss of energy?

 

[dhmtbj]

Originally posted by math2014
Hmm i used my big ring once... on a road descent but thats about it. If a DH bike is using 38-11 then i guess that would be adequate for me... for trails and some dh/fr. Thing is that i could use some more stability on my chain that is why i am looking at chainguides. Will they affect a lot my riding with respect to friction and loss of energy?

I'm not sure about the DRS and 3RS but the SRS has less resistance than a derailleur. I imagine the DRS and 3RS are pretty close to that if not the same.

 

[math2014]

Originally posted by dhmtbj
I'm not sure about the DRS and 3RS but the SRS has less resistance than a derailleur. I imagine the DRS and 3RS are pretty close to that if not the same.

Cheers

Thanks everyone for the info.... coz up to now i was totally ignorant of chainguides...

 

[bighitfsr]

In Australia an Evil SRS costs AU$350.
That works out at US$250.
I have a good relationship with my LBS and get good prices from them.
The best price I could get was AU$300, US $216.
A Mr Dirt goes for AU$250, but they cost the same as Evil in the US.

I have 2 Evil guides and a whole bunch of other stuff on order with go-ride currently.

Also an XTR-952 rear derailer costs AU$320 here (US $230).
Everything shimano and almostr every thing else is in line with the crazy prices I've mentioned.

There can only be two reasons for the difference in price IMO:
- our local distributors are greedy.
- evil sell their products at a much higher price to overseas distributors.

Seeing as everything is more expensive here my guess is the distributors are greedy (so shop online and screw them).

 

[RaID]

Originally posted by bighitfsr


There can only be two reasons for the difference in price IMO:
- our local distributors are greedy.
- evil sell their products at a much higher price to overseas distributors.

Seeing as everything is more expensive here my guess is the distributors are greedy (so shop online and screw them).

i wouldnt say that distributors are greedy its just all the extra cost that build up when you import from overseas when youre a distributor

fair enough youd get a better price for each guide but in the end when all the shipping costs, taxes and all other bullsh1t is added up the price rises
plus remember the distributor needs to make money so he puts his margin which needs to be enough to make it worthwhile for the hassle associated with the product







Math2014

sounds what you really need is gear ration setup DRS, ie 38 middle and as small as possible granny, work out whether youd need a higher big ring
or a smaller granny

 

[spookydave]

Life is a trade off. I didn't want to give up my big ring on my trail bike.
Soooooo.........

It's worked real well for me.

 

[math2014]

Originally posted by spookydave
Life is a trade off. I didn't want to give up my big ring on my trail bike.
Soooooo.........

It's worked real well for me.

Mate what kind of guide is that on the picture?

I ll need to put some more miles with the 3rings in order to decide what stays and what not.

As far as the distributors go...

Some US products come at a fair price in the UK, some come highly overpriced. For the ones overpriced, its definately either greediness of the distributors (who will say..."we offer bling-bling US products...") or its just that the respective companies cannot strike a good factory price outside the US.

It is IRRATIONAL for a bullit to cost 50% more in Europe than in the US.

 

[dw]

Originally posted by math2014
Hi all

After seeing the amazing quality and rider-consiousness that Evil-E13 has i want to ask the following.

An E13 DRS,SRS etc, cost in the UK 135GBP, times 1.7 this makes us.... 229USD. Is that normal or the UK distributor rips us off?
(i took this price from an MBUK forum if i am not mistaken and i live in the UK).

Hey Yannis, thanks for the heads up, for all the questions, and for the support, we try! Sorry I didnt see this yesterday, I was not in front of the computer yesterday afternoon! I am not sure what is up with that pricing, but we are going to look inot it. Something doesn't sound right to me, I am sure John P will give us an update.

Second, i want to run 3 rings, i have seens the new 3 ring chainguide from E13, and i am wondering, since i dont have ISGC mounts on my frame (Specialized SX), does this guide mount between the bb drive cup and the bb shell? If yes, is it safe for the bb cup not to be tightened face-to the bb-shell and to have the E13 guide in the middle? Also with this setup, will i screw up my chainline? It is perfect now at 47.5-48mm

Does your SX have a 68 or 73mm BB shell? If you have a 68mm shell, just remove the spacer that is behind your flanged BB shell now, and replace it with the 3RS back plate. The 3RS back plate is only 2mmm thick, so it will be almost a perfect fit. If youhave a 73mm shell, then just sandwich it right in there nad you should be good to go! We've run them set up as equivalent 73 and 68 shells on the same bikes for back to back tests, and the performance difference in shifting is really undetectable. (to our test riders at least! )

Also , would it make an ideal chainguide (ideal for the application), to use an E13 bashguard (the one up to 44T) outside the big ring or i will have issues with the big-ring and the bashguard? My plan is to keep my NS chainset as is, by simply adding the bashguard on the outside... but i dont know if that is feasible... to have 3 rings, 22-32-42 , the 3ring chainguide, and the e13 bashguard outside protecting the bigring.

It would be sweet, but it also will be difficult to fit the bashguard on there without some modification, because the crank arm will interfere with the bashguard itself. If you get crafty with a bandsaw or dremel, it can definitely work. You might have to cut a slot for the crankarm.

Thanks.
Yannis.

Any Time man! Feel free to drop us a line at support@e13components.com and we can help you out more.

Dave

 

[Tenacious Doug]

DW, of note is that price is pretty competitive with any other chain devices on the market here in the UK, similar to an MRP type 1 and cheaper than a type 2. The price differential is similar to most stuff in the UK market, to be honest I reckon you will find that its pretty easy to see where the extra goes.

BUT

I would like to take issue with the fact that all your stuff in the UK is only available direct from your importer, frameworks. I have absolutely no issue with Frameworks themselves, I have spoken to them and they are great guys, very helpful and friendly, they knew what they were talking about when advising me on the guides. I dont know what direction you want to take the company in really, it would be rude of me to assume that you want your stuff to be readily available to any shop that wants to stock it, some smaller manufacturers prefer to keep it small scale rather than having there products common as muck. While the e13 stuff is known of in the UK it is still a fairly uncommon site on the trails and my device is often the topic of conversation with guys I meet out riding......along the lines of where did you get that, I didnt think you could get them in the UK but I would love one kinda thing. While I am sure Frameworks sell what seems like a lot for a one outlet setup I can almost guarantee that with a larger distribution setup you would be shifting many many more, I for one would never recommend an MRP to another customer.

Like I say, dont want to come across like I am telling you how to run your business, this was just my take on it all

 

[math2014]

Kudos to Dave Weagle for his reply!

I would be very interested to know what is going on with prices. Having said that, given the quality that evil/e13 has, i wouldnt mind getting them at the full UK price...honestly. What is bothers me though is that i cant get them through my lbs and i have to get them only through the distributor.

As for the bb, it is an Enduro SX frame with a 68mm bottom bracket shell, i currently run the Evolve FR Raceface bottom bracket, and i dont think that it has any spacers at all, the only spacer was the one that converts from 68-73mm and that is on the bb body. DW i presume that you are talking about a certain spacer that is already on the e13 guide.

As for which CG ... definately i ll be getting a DRS (i hope it fits my bike since i lack the ISCG mounts). So if the big ring goes, the DRS comes.

Tenacious Dog, i totally agree with your points about availability. I clearly feel that the UK market LUSTS and BEGS for more e13/Evil stuff. Heck in my opinion they would sell more than anything similar. By the way, Tenacious Dog, i am down South West in Exeter... i would really love to come one day up in the highlands... and especially at Fort Bill for the DH Champs. Drop me a pm if you have any kind of messenger program....

DW, i would love to see you guys in Greece, during some summer holidays, be it with bikes or without them... we can have loads of beer under a bright sun...

Yours
Yannis

PS. I may sound repetitive and boring... but thanks again!
PS2. If you ever produce an Evil FS bike, prepare to ship one of the first in Greece i am stoked with the company, and the reason is ... you know how to communicate with riders.

 

[klunky]

I would love to see e-13 components available to more dealers in the uk.

I work for a fairly large chain of bike shops and we get allot of customers wanting the e-13 chain devices for DH build ups but because trade enquires or not welcome i am only left with MRP for my customers.

I dont know if its greed by the importer or lack of a good profit margin that prevents any shops being able to sell it but which ever it is its a real shame, I would much rather be selling evil parts than MRP.

 

[math2014]

Originally posted by klunky
I would love to see e-13 components available to more dealers in the uk.

I work for a fairly large chain of bike shops and we get allot of customers wanting the e-13 chain devices for DH build ups but because trade enquires or not welcome i am only left with MRP for my customers.

I dont know if its greed by the importer or lack of a good profit margin that prevents any shops being able to sell it but which ever it is its a real shame, I would much rather be selling evil parts than MRP.

Klunky, whereabouts in the UK are you mate? I am in Devon. I guess you me and Tenacious dog should hook together for some pints at some point in the foreseable future. Like a UK/Euro monkey get-together....

Yannis Here...
pm for more...

 

[spookydave]

Originally posted by math2014
Mate what kind of guide is that on the picture?

It's an E13 3RS. It came from DW himself! For what it is I can't say enough good about it.
I've had it for a pretty long time now.
Here it is the day I opened the box! Jan. 05, 2003 to be exact.

 

[math2014]

Just by looking at it, it seems that it makes you faster...just by looking at it! So the 3rs just mounts between the bb cup and the bb shell....

 

[Tenacious Doug]

Originally posted by math2014
I guess you me and Tenacious dog should hook together for some pints at some point in the foreseable future. Like a UK/Euro monkey get-together....

600 miles is a long way to go for a pint

 

[math2014]

Originally posted by Tenacious Doug
600 miles is a long way to go for a pint

Right... i forgot to mention that i might come for a weekend-holiday in Endiburg..in June, that is why i mentioned it