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Question: Is 2010 worse than 2008?

sanjuro

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Sep 13, 2004
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I have a hard time answering this question since I am a huge Obama supporter.

Do you feel like we are doing worse than 2008?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
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^^^^ what he said (i was mil cntr in '08)

we've been dragging bottom for a couple yrs - i might be inclined to say we're worse off, but not as bad as talk radio would have you believe. i haven't got to the point of sketching talking points on my garrison sized chalk board & holding grass roots meetings in my bunker.

fwiw, my attitude has improved in the last 2 yrs. can't let the man keep you down.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
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sanj:

why do you support obama so hugely? in your opinion, what has he done, either in words or in deeds, that reinforces your support? or is it simply patriotism or a sense of nat'l pride?
My knees hurt. Moar.
doesn't help that you're a yeti
 

KavuRider

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2006
2,566
3
CT
Its hard to tell. I think morale-wise...maybe. Only because we have been down a few years, as $tinkle said, and that begins to wear on people...most people I work with/talk to are very "doom and gloom" regarding anything to do with the economy or politics.

Also, we're constantly being bombarded with cries that "the sky is falling" from talk radio, TV, etc. I don't watch/listen, but the people around me do, so I can't escape it.
 

sanjuro

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Sep 13, 2004
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sanj:

why do you support obama so hugely? in your opinion, what has he done, either in words or in deeds, that reinforces your support? or is it simply patriotism or a sense of nat'l pride?
doesn't help that you're a yeti
Well, I never thought I would see a black president in my lifetime. That is a huge achievement for America.

I think he is a man of integrity and intelligence, a rare combination when looking at the President.

Has America improved immensely since 2008? No, but given the intractable problems left by Bush, which include huge economic chasms, and two wars, it is hard to make the problems disappear.

Specifically about the big crisis, the spill, I know he will take the blame, but I think he is doing an adequate job managing it. Again, there is no magic wand that Obama failed to wield: the reality is that there was no clean-up or capping plan in place because it was too expensive for the oil companies to plan for a possible disaster.

Of course, there is no bi-partisan support for the President. That is what prompted this thread. I have never seen so much unwarranted venom thrown around. I understand there are kooks everywhere, but Boehner and many other Republicans are glad to ride the wave of hatred.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
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Well, I never thought I would see a black president in my lifetime. That is a huge achievement for America.
it is
and if the 2 were identical, i would have voted for obama, just to be part of history
I think he is a man of integrity and intelligence, a rare combination when looking at the President.
while those are quite important, i would like to add to that list competency.
so, while these items perhaps don't demonstrate a lack of integrity, are you not just a bit disappointed that
- he hasn't closed gitmo
- abolished the mil policy of DADT
- iran & nork's nuke programs
- increased troops in afghanistan
- hastened or squashed open debate on legislation
- failed to push policy to allow same sex couples full adoption rights
- failed to toughen rules on revolving door lobbyists
- failed to repeal DOMA
- failed to prevent taxing seniors making less than $50K (campaign promise)

i can see where you could find solace in his first term, but the above were pretty significant goals sought by his camp. and i know things change that require compromise, but i see the above laundry list of ignore concerns by his constituency, which if i were you, would find troubling.
Specifically about the big crisis, the spill, I know he will take the blame, but I think he is doing an adequate job managing it. Again, there is no magic wand that Obama failed to wield: the reality is that there was no clean-up or capping plan in place because it was too expensive for the oil companies to plan for a possible disaster.
it is blatant partisan bickering to blame obama for the aftermath, just like bush & katrina
I understand there are kooks everywhere, but Boehner and many other Republicans are glad to ride the wave of hatred.
one man's hatred is another man's opportunity

ed: <youtube></youtube>
dude was on the campaign trail & wicked tired. he fumbled. so what.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
29,663
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Riding the baggage carousel.
while those are quite important, i would like to add to that list competency.
so, while these items perhaps don't demonstrate a lack of integrity, are you not just a bit disappointed that
- he hasn't closed gitmo
- abolished the mil policy of DADT
- iran & nork's nuke programs
- increased troops in afghanistan
- hastened or squashed open debate on legislation
- failed to push policy to allow same sex couples full adoption rights
- failed to toughen rules on revolving door lobbyists
- failed to repeal DOMA
- failed to prevent taxing seniors making less than $50K (campaign promise)
Yes. As a rather large Obama supporter am quite disappointed in those things. Well, maybe not the Afghanistan one, which IMHO is at least the number that should have been there in the first place but thats another subject.
also:
-extension of "patriot" act.
-watered down BS health care "reform" that's basically guaranteed
subsidies to private and/or for profit health care companies.
-spineless wall street "reform"
-continued renditions
-advocating assassination of an American Citizen, even if he is a douchebag

I've probably got a couple more but I can't think of them right now.
 
Last edited:

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,356
913
East Bay, Cali
I would imagine it's hard to get anything done with a major financial crisis, huge environmental disaster, two wars, and automatic republicans opposition to anything he does stacked against him.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,861
1
SoMD
to answer sanjuro's ot:
Depends on personal perspective. Since 2008, I make more money, have bought a new house that's 2x as large as my old one, have no other debt (except current mortage) and I am currently having to decide between keeping my really great job or taking another really great job.

Yeah, it's all good.
 
Yes. As a rather large Obama supporter am quite disappointed in those things. Well, maybe not the Afghanistan one, which IMHO is at least the number that should have been there in the first place but thats another subject.
also:
-extension of "patriot" act.
-watered down BS health care "reform" that's basically guaranteed
subsidies to private and/or for profit health care companies.
-spineless wall street "reform"
-continued renditions
-advocating assassination of an American Citizen, even if he is a douchebag

I've probably got a couple more but I can't think of them right now.
Yep. I voted for him the first time, but I won't do it again. I'm voting Independent from now on. All the Democrats and Republicans do is run up debt, continue the same old policies, steal our freedom, and blame it on the terrorists.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
28,201
2,525
I have the distinct impression of less incompetence from the govt, including Obama, his minions, and his appointees. The true magnitude of the cluster**** that was called W may never be known, and W's ridiculously pro-industry policies in, well, everything set the stage a large part of what's currently weighing us down: both the financial crisis and the oil spill fiasco.

I do wish that Obama had accomplished more of the goals stated above by stinkle, but I think he's done quite well at nibbling at the edges given the ridiculous pigheadedness of the Republicans. Furthermore, I think that the health care reform bill will have good effects down the road even if it is not the complete solution. It's a huge step forward, and nothing of the sort would have been considered by McCain, who, like the rest of his party, has run with tails tucked to the far right.
 

ridiculous

Turbo Monkey
Jan 18, 2005
2,909
1
MD / NoVA
No.




House prices must continue to fall. Banks still have bogus balance sheets. Financial reform is pretty much a joke from what i can tell. BP Oil Spill isnt helping. No market for "green" business. Fuddruckers is closed and theres not LTE on Verizon yet.

We were succesful at buying time and delaying distaster but now its time for history to repeat itself. Unfortunately we borrowed and horrendous amount of money to do this.

We were unsuccessful at creating any permanent jobs, especially in comparison to others such as Canada. Hard to do this with bogus regulation and when the government is really the only one lending.

Also. If this head and shoulders pattern is confirmed, its not looking so hot for the stock market either.


Look familiar to anyone?


I too was an Obama supporter but the administration is awful. Dodds, Geithner, Bair, Bernanke all of them need to go.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,184
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TN
I don't know what people want from the guy.

His own party are a bunch of spineless cowards afraid to push for any real reform, living in fear of being villified by Limbaugh/FoxNews/TeaParty and not being re-elected. The democrats of today are the republicans of 10 years ago. The conservatives won't let anything happen at all, for fear of the democrats looking successful. He's in a no-win situation as far as I can see it.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,846
0
Orange County, CA
I don't know what people want from the guy.

His own party are a bunch of spineless cowards afraid to push for any real reform, living in fear of being villified by Limbaugh/FoxNews/TeaParty and not being re-elected. The democrats of today are the republicans of 10 years ago. The conservatives won't let anything happen at all, for fear of the democrats looking successful. He's in a no-win situation as far as I can see it.
I'm really pissed about Afghanistan. I've mentioned before I thought that was a BS campaign promise so he wouldn't look like a pussy. The fact that he thinks staying and escalating is a good idea is frankly crazy.

Of course, the conventional wisdom is that eternal war is a great idea, so you're right about having a bit of an uphill climb there.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,184
13
TN
I'm really pissed about Afghanistan. I've mentioned before I thought that was a BS campaign promise so he wouldn't look like a pussy. The fact that he thinks staying and escalating is a good idea is frankly crazy.

Of course, the conventional wisdom is that eternal war is a great idea, so you're right about having a bit of an uphill climb there.

I think the only reasonable thing to do is escalate in Afghanistan at this point. As much as it sucks now, if the US tucks its tail and runs and the taliban re-establishes control, you'll have terrorist training camps popping up like Starbucks, and they'll be operating with impunity, and we'll be forced to go back, the next time with even less international support. It's really a bitch, but what else can you do?
Sign a peace treaty with Al Queda? Not gonna happen.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
28,201
2,525
I'd vote for getting the hell out of there, closing most of our overseas bases, and concentrating on our domestic issues instead of dumping billions of dollars down the military-industrial complex's gullet. Will some areas of the rest of the world be worse off? Possibly. Not our problem, however.

We are not the world police. Srsly.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,184
13
TN
I'd vote for getting the hell out of there, closing most of our overseas bases, and concentrating on our domestic issues instead of dumping billions of dollars down the military-industrial complex's gullet. Will some areas of the rest of the world be worse off? Possibly. Not our problem, however.

We are not the world police. Srsly.
Yah but we do have somewhat of a duty to stop people who are openly planning to attack our borders. I agree we should concentrate more on domestic issues, but pulling out now would do 2 things, in reality.

1. Guarantee at least one more big terrorist attack.
2. "Prove" that democrats can't protect the country from the terrorists, and we'll elect war hawks for the next 17 terms.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
anybody know ralph peters? retired lt col authored like eleventy books on war & such.

word is, afghanistan isn't a vietnam, b/c at least there was hope in vietnam. all the SF guys are giving under the table intel of duplicitousness at all levels of gov't being incurably rampant, esp when we try & partner w/ pakistan to help quell the violence/insurgency.

unless we go all mother russia on them & treat them like chechens, we're screwed.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,861
1
SoMD
I'd vote for getting the hell out of there, closing most of our overseas bases, and concentrating on our domestic issues instead of dumping billions of dollars down the military-industrial complex's gullet. Will some areas of the rest of the world be worse off? Possibly. Not our problem, however.

We are not the world police. Srsly.
Not to disagree with the thought of getting out, but in regards to dumping money into the military-industrial complex and focusing on domestic issues...
What do you think the majority of citizens feel is the number one domestic issue? Jobs/economy is a safe bet, yes? Take all those jobs away from the "complex" wouldn't help the percieved number one domestic issue would it?
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
29,663
5,104
Riding the baggage carousel.
Not to disagree with the thought of getting out, but in regards to dumping money into the military-industrial complex and focusing on domestic issues...
What do you think the majority of citizens feel is the number one domestic issue? Jobs/economy is a safe bet, yes? Take all those jobs away from the "complex" wouldn't help the percieved number one domestic issue would it?

Whats wrong with this picture?
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,861
1
SoMD

Whats wrong with this picture?
shrugs: missing your point with regards to my statement. I'm not saying that we don't overspend on defense, saying that taking jobs away from the defense industry certainly wouldn't help the jobs numbers. Would it?
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
29,663
5,104
Riding the baggage carousel.
shrugs: missing your point with regards to my statement. I'm not saying that we don't overspend on defense, saying that taking jobs away from the defense industry certainly wouldn't help the jobs numbers. Would it?
That was poorly put on my part. Said picture was in regards to the "military industrial complex". I say cut military spending in half. You still would have by far the most expensive military in the world and a $hit load of cash to spend on other stuff. Sure you would lose jobs short term, but I'm guessing you afford to send every single one of those laid of workers back to school, promote a much greater domestic agenda, and maybe even fund our way out of debt, all with out sacrificing "national security".
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
28,201
2,525
shrugs: missing your point with regards to my statement. I'm not saying that we don't overspend on defense, saying that taking jobs away from the defense industry certainly wouldn't help the jobs numbers. Would it?
Whether it would help or hurt the economy depends on whether military spending is the most efficient use of those resources, ie, taxpayer money. I'd argue that the evidence is ample to suggest that the military bidding/production/support process is anything but efficient.
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
32,795
3,558
^

nothing about spending money in the government can be confused with being efficient.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,184
13
TN
^

nothing about spending money in the government can be confused with being efficient.
No, but public works projects can at least pay dividends in terms of infrastructure whereas the current colonial exploits are a black hole of cash.
 

FlyinPolack

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
371
0
I have a hard time answering this question since I am a huge Obama supporter.

Do you feel like we are doing worse than 2008?
Our National economy is in the toilet, & the rest of the world hates us as much as ever.
So how are all of you Obama fanboys liking your "spare" change now?

Voting for someone just because he is black is just as bad as voting for someone just because he is white...

A couple of years ago I asked the question on this board: "How many of you would be laid off in the next couple of years. You all said I was clueless.. So how many of you guys with the super secure jobs have been laid off in the last 2 years?

Just curious

BTW My business is ****ing booming, & I'm actually thinking of hiring someone. Thanks for asking!
:thumb:
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
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Our National economy is in the toilet, & the rest of the world hates us as much as ever.
So how are all of you Obama fanboys liking your "spare" change now?

Voting for someone just because he is black is just as bad as voting for someone just because he is white...

A couple of years ago I asked the question on this board: "How many of you would be laid off in the next couple of years. You all said I was clueless.. So how many of you guys with the super secure jobs have been laid off in the last 2 years?

Just curious

BTW My business is ****ing booming, & I'm actually thinking of hiring someone. Thanks for asking!
:thumb:
I actually got my current job the week Obama was elected.

As for voting for him because he was black, that's not the reason why I voted for him.

I just think that our country would never get past black and white. You should still keep working on it.

P.S. How would have Sarah Palin been as the Clean-up Czar?
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
29,663
5,104
Riding the baggage carousel.
Our National economy is in the toilet, & the rest of the world hates us as much as ever.
So how are all of you Obama fanboys liking your "spare" change now?

Voting for someone just because he is black is just as bad as voting for someone just because he is white...
I'm with sanjuro. I didn't vote for him because he was the (half)black guy. I voted for him because he was promoting ideas and an agenda I support. Plus he wasn't canvasing the country promoting Mrs. Derp for VP.