[vikingboy]

Wanted to ask here specfiically due to the high amount of technical expertese whch frequents this forum.

I have a Specialized Enduro 2010 160mm travel frame with RP32 air shock which using the standard "low BB clevis" links sits with a BB height of 14.25", I run this shock with about 25% sag, anything above this results in significant pedal strikes and becomes pretty much unusable.

I've modified a coil shock (CCDB) to fit which has the same 216mm eye to eye, however it only works with the "high BB clevis" links I have due to slightly different mounting points. This causes the BB to raise by about .25" when sat unweighted with no rider, however I can run this with closer to 35% sag so offsetting some of this increased hight.

Id like to ask is the best thing to do to run the high clevis' with more the increased sag, or should I try and adapt the low BB clevis' to work and still run 35% sag, presumably the coil will prevent it blowing through the travel like the air can does.

thank in adv

 

[vikingboy]

anyone...or is this a stupid question <wide open>?
thanks for any input

 

[Gary]

I quite like apples this time of year but as I prefer green ones to red I don't buy the red ones, does this help?

 

[norbar]

It is strange that such a small air can shock blows through the travel. You can still decrease the size of the air can (or switch from hv to lv can if you have the hv one).

As for more sag - for resort riding 35% sag is ok but imho it will feel very different. It all depends on what kind of riding you do on your enduro. The ccdb will feel better for sure but with bigger sag you may end up with more pedal bob. You could also run offset shock eyelets to get it back to the lower setting.
Im also suprised you hit your pedals all the time on a 14.25 160mm bike. Time your strikes better.

 

[HAB]

Im also suprised you hit your pedals all the time on a 14.25 160mm bike. Time your strikes better.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think some practice timing your pedal strokes would go a long way here. All of my bikes are a LOT lower than that, and I ride some very, very rocky stuff pretty often. I'm not saying I'm immune to pedal strikes here and there, but I'm not having problems with it.

 

[weedkilla]

This may be a simple case of making decisions based on static geometry is a poor indicator of real world performance.
14.25" sounds high, but if the bike squats down under power (I had a Demo 7 that was like a s**tting dog if you thought about pedalling) then you'll strike pedals, the CCDB may give better control over the low - mid speed damping range and make it less of an issue. It also, may not. But I strongly suggest you try it in the lower bb setting, even try a heavier spring to get 25-30% sag and see if you like that.
At the end of the day you'll find that it works better some places and worse others, you'll have to decide what you want to compromise. Thats what trailbikes are all about, not a dh bike, not a xc bike - some weird middle ground that makes you giggle when you ride it in some completely innappropriate place.

Once you've worked it out, then decide if you prefer green or red apples....

 

[norbar]

This may be a simple case of making decisions based on static geometry is a poor indicator of real world performance.
14.25" sounds high, but if the bike squats down under power (I had a Demo 7 that was like a s**tting dog if you thought about pedalling) then you'll strike pedals, the CCDB may give better control over the low - mid speed damping range and make it less of an issue. It also, may not. But I strongly suggest you try it in the lower bb setting, even try a heavier spring to get 25-30% sag and see if you like that.
At the end of the day you'll find that it works better some places and worse others, you'll have to decide what you want to compromise. Thats what trailbikes are all about, not a dh bike, not a xc bike - some weird middle ground that makes you giggle when you ride it in some completely innappropriate place.

Once you've worked it out, then decide if you prefer green or red apples....

The static argument vs squatting bike never worked for me. I had a high-ish bb bike that had 9 inches of travel and squatted like crazy(high volume dhx air). Even with 175mm cranks I had no problems and I dont really think about pedalling. Just some good habbits from racing xc as a kid.

 

[dbozman]

Not sure how you're measuring bb height on that frame. I had the same frame and both Spec's published numbers and my real-world numbers are substantially lower than 14.25 unsagged.

 

[marshalolson]

happy to pedal very rocky technical climbs with a 13.7" bb on a giant reign with 30% sag.

35% is a bit much IMO. why not just add a 50# heavier spring, put the bike in the low setting, and shred the way that thing was meant to?

 

[vikingboy]

hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Let me respond to some points.

It is strange that such a small air can shock blows through the travel. You can still decrease the size of the air can (or switch from hv to lv can if you have the hv one).

I find that at 220lbs the standard LV air can needs to be pumped very high (circa 240psi) to prevent it wallowing through the mid-stroke. Anything lower to achieve a reasonable sag leaves it without enough support on bigger hits resulting in pedal strikes. Its these that are the issue, not poor pedal stroke timing.

This may be a simple case of making decisions based on static geometry is a poor indicator of real world performance.
14.25" sounds high, but if the bike squats down under power then you'll strike pedals, the CCDB may give better control over the low - mid speed damping range and make it less of an issue. It also, may not. But I strongly suggest you try it in the lower bb setting, even try a heavier spring to get 25-30% sag and see if you like that.

The nice thing about the CCDB is that you can dial in some LSC to really reduce wallowing under acceleration or under cornering in high speed berms without effecting the HSC. Running a 550lb spring nets me 30% sag.
I'm assuming the higher static sag is offset mainly under rider weight, with the high BB clevis and bike weighted the BB sits 1cm higher.
Modifying a par of low BB clevises may be a ball-ache of a job - its all custom hardware unfortunately thanks to Specialized custom mounting hardware.

Not sure how you're measuring bb height on that frame. I had the same frame and both Spec's published numbers and my real-world numbers are substantially lower than 14.25 unsagged.

Measured with bike resting on floor, from ground vertically to centre of crank axle. Bike is on 2.5" Maxxis DHF tyres.
From Specialized web site, quoted as 352mm standard
My measurements with no rider are are:-
with standard air can and low BB clevis = 362mm
with CCDB and high BB clevis = 368mm

with rider
with std air can & low BB clevis = 292mm
with CCDB and high BB clevis = 300mm

FYI: The high BB clevis are 5mm longer than the low versions

I'll put some more time on it next weekend but was interested in your expert opinions if its worth getting some low BB clevis made or should I just live with it, i.e those deltas are negligible.

thanks guys! great feedback!

 

[-BB-]

Wanted to ask here specfiically due to the high amount of technical expertese whch frequents this forum.

I have a Specialized Enduro 2010 160mm travel frame with RP32 air shock which using the standard "low BB clevis" links sits with a BB height of 14.25", I run this shock with about 25% sag, anything above this results in significant pedal strikes and becomes pretty much unusable.

I've modified a coil shock (CCDB) to fit which has the same 216mm eye to eye, however it only works with the "high BB clevis" links I have due to slightly different mounting points. This causes the BB to raise by about .25" when sat unweighted with no rider, however I can run this with closer to 35% sag so offsetting some of this increased hight.

Are these shocks the same stroke as well?
And what about a comparison of the coil to the air with both in the high setting? I wouldn't compare the two settings with two different shocks bc the high position seems to have the Susp higher in the travel and thus you might get a different leverage curve.

Id like to ask is the best thing to do to run the high clevis' with more the increased sag, or should I try and adapt the low BB clevis' to work and still run 35% sag, presumably the coil will prevent it blowing through the travel like the air can does.

thank in adv

Hmmm... something isn't right then. Air shocks are MORE progressive than coil so it should be tougher to bottom. As stated above, what "can" size is it? Smaller = more progression. Bigger = more linear

Could your shock be busted?

 

[-BB-]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think some practice timing your pedal strokes would go a long way here. All of my bikes are a LOT lower than that, and I ride some very, very rocky stuff pretty often. I'm not saying I'm immune to pedal strikes here and there, but I'm not having problems with it.

Cough, cough, 12.25 cough...

 

[HAB]

Cough, cough, 12.25 cough...

I don't have anything that low (anymore).

DH is about 12.9, Spitty is very close to the same. My AM hardtail is about 12.6. Don't remember my XC race bike.


I did, for a time, have a Bottle Rocket that I was running with -1.5 degree head cups, a 110mm chopped 36 Vanilla, and a Roco WC that I'd put a spacer in so that the eye to eye and stroke were something like 12mm shorter. It gave it a 12" BB, 110mm rear travel, and a head angle a little slacker than 65 degrees. It was stupid fun on the right trail but quite a handful on the wrong one. Kinda miss it.

 

[wood booger]

hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Let me respond to some points.



I find that at 220lbs the standard LV air can needs to be pumped very high (circa 240psi) to prevent it wallowing through the mid-stroke. Anything lower to achieve a reasonable sag leaves it without enough support on bigger hits resulting in pedal strikes. Its these that are the issue, not poor pedal stroke timing.



The nice thing about the CCDB is that you can dial in some LSC to really reduce wallowing under acceleration or under cornering in high speed berms without effecting the HSC. Running a 550lb spring nets me 30% sag.
I'm assuming the higher static sag is offset mainly under rider weight, with the high BB clevis and bike weighted the BB sits 1cm higher.
Modifying a par of low BB clevises may be a ball-ache of a job - its all custom hardware unfortunately thanks to Specialized custom mounting hardware.



Measured with bike resting on floor, from ground vertically to centre of crank axle. Bike is on 2.5" Maxxis DHF tyres.
From Specialized web site, quoted as 352mm standard
My measurements with no rider are are:-
with standard air can and low BB clevis = 362mm
with CCDB and high BB clevis = 368mm

with rider
with std air can & low BB clevis = 292mm
with CCDB and high BB clevis = 300mm

FYI: The high BB clevis are 5mm longer than the low versions

I'll put some more time on it next weekend but was interested in your expert opinions if its worth getting some low BB clevis made or should I just live with it, i.e those deltas are negligible.

thanks guys! great feedback!

What is the stroke on the CCDB you are running? The longer arms may help (didn't know they even existed), but you should take the spring off and make sure the seat stay brace doesn't hit the back of the seat tube @ bottom out. Anything less than 58mm of stroke and this can happen.

I have tried 2 different coil shocks on this frame and I couldn't get either to feel right. The frame is designed for an air shock so the wheel rate ramps up at the end of the travel (to accommodate the progressive nature of an air shock). Seems like it wants to really blow through the last 1/4 of the travel w/ a coil. Once I got the shocks to not bottom super easily, they felt like poo everywhere else. But if anything can help it, a CCBD can!

I had the Fox RP re-valved by Push and it really helped the middle wallow feeling. The RS Monarch Plus (w/ reservoir) is also a great air shock for this bike.

Anyway, good luck!

 

[dbozman]

Hmmm. Bad shock? I had that same frame, same year, same shock. I'm about 205 in gear and ran (if memory serves), somewhere around 150psi to get ~30% sag.

 

[Lelandjt]

How long are your cranks? Even at 6'2" with long femurs I run 170s on that type of bike. If I was shorter I'd run 165s. My FR bike has a 14" BB, 185mm travel, 170mm cranks, and I don't get too many pedal strikes.