w/o googling, can anyone name who said this? and when?
quote of the month
- Thread starter narlus
- Start date
Bush when he was Governor of Texas running against Gore?
Can't be Bush Jr, it is comprised of complete coherent sentences with words that can be found in the dictionary.
dubya...
sounds pretty good, doesn't it? or do people disagree w/ the intent? i'm looking at W crew here.
Starts off contradictory, the rest is nice, but unrealistic and a bit pollyanna no?
If we let each nation secure it's own future the 3rd Reich and the USSR would co-own Europe and all of Asia and Oceania would be part of the land of the rising sun.
Our policies prevented that, and have prevented countless similar (though not as broad) situations, and will continue to do so.
You don't want to live in a world in which we throw up a wall and mind our own biddness.
If we let each nation secure it's own future the 3rd Reich and the USSR would co-own Europe and all of Asia and Oceania would be part of the land of the rising sun.
Our policies prevented that, and have prevented countless similar (though not as broad) situations, and will continue to do so.
You don't want to live in a world in which we throw up a wall and mind our own biddness.
Yeah, thats what I mean. If we had let things be your little island nation would be the southern boundary the Japanese Empire.
condi rice maybe... reagan? nixon?
"We shall support vigorously the principle that no country has the right to impose its will or rule on another by force"Damn True said:
seems pretty clear to me.
narlus said:
But in the same breath it as much as says we will not do anything to stop it and says that nations must ensure their OWN security.
So do we say to country "X" when invading country "Y", " Stop that or we will be forced to tell other countries that we disagree with what you are doing."
Utter crap as usual DT. All the allies working together towards a common goal helped win the war. Many could argue that it was the Russian ability to stop the German advance in '42-3 that was a key to winning the war.Damn True said:
If the UN is as effective in the next 50 years as it has been in the last 50..........you should shudder at the thought, I do.
I said the USSR and Germany would co-own Europe that would have remained a stalemate.valve bouncer said:
As for the rest of the world, are you kidding me?
No other country had nor has ever had the ability to project power as far and as effectively as the US. Had we not done so there would have been nothing to stop Germany. The UK was crippled and Stalin didn't care what happened beyond the countries with whom he shared a border.
As for Asia, the Pacific and and Oceania....if not the US, who was going to stop Japan....seriously now?
ohio said:
LOL!
Talking out the rear end again. You have problems with this concept of the allies working together to achieve a common goal. You make it sound like America just said "well alright I guess I can help you guys out again- but this is the last time", ignoring the fact that both Japan and Germany declared war on you. How exactly were you meant to sit back and leave the UK et al to their own devices? You had absolutely no choice, like all other countries fighting the Germans and the Japanese had no choice. You didn't save anyone, you saved yourself and by extension others. You seem to give the other countries absolutely no credit for any part they might have played. The DT mantra is "we did it, not you lesser nations, us the mighty USA, now lick our boots for ever-after". It's a weak arguement and you know it but you can't seem to get past primitive hairy chested patriotic ramblings. Grow up. I'm sure the hundreds of thousands of Commonwealth soldiers in graves all over the Pacific would be glad to know how little you appreciate their efforts.Damn True said:
You are out of your gourd.valve bouncer said:
Germany declared war on the US...big deal. They had no ability to bring any kind of fight to us. With their troops headed to N. Africa, E. Europe and all over SW and NW Europe they were spread paper thin. The U-boat effect would have been nil if we had not been out in the Atlantic ferrying stuff to the UK. Germany had zero capability in terms of carriers or over water troop movement, let alone enough personell to fight beyond what they had gotten themselves into.
As for Japan....they had carrier forces and a modest troop movement ability. Enough to tackle something small like individual islands. But a landing in Newport Beach or San Francisco.....no way. They may have been able to poke a finger in our eye on the west coast with their carrier based planes but with 1/4 of the Pac fleet we decimated their carriers at Wake. No way would they have been able to support any sort of profound attack on the US West Coast.
Simple stuff. I know you will never come out and say it, but you know full well that without the US involvement in WWII the outcome would have been 180 degrees different.
Argentina?Changleen said:
You need
!Thats like throwing the Lakers up against a H.S. team.
As for the second part....apples and oranges. Not worthy of further commentary.
Whereas the US Army vs. the Iraqi army + civilians is like? The Argentinians had a proper, motivated army with decent weapons and they were dug in in a civilian area. Not only did we kick their asses, we didn't kill no civilians either.Damn True said:Argentina?
You need
Thats like throwing the Lakers up against a H.S. team.
Ha ha, you know it's true.
So why was the US ferrying stuff across the Atlantic? Because they saw Germany as a threat but were too chicken-sh*t to fight them except by proxy? Without the USSR and the UK, the US would all be speaking Japanese now.Damn True said:
That is as factual, realistic, reasoned, logical and full of crap as your post.
Again, at the risk of repeating myself ad-nauseum, how exactly did you plan on staying out of the war after both Japan and Germany declared war on you? Your participation was unavoidable, to take this dog in the manger attitude makes no sense.Damn True said:
by the way, for those who didn't google, the quote was said by richard nixon at his '73 inauguration speech.
Couldn't be to support an ally could it.....nah.fluff said:
Look at it this way. If I announce to all that I am going to punch you in the face I am doing the same thing Germany did by declaring war on the US. However, since I lack the coin for a plane ticket to the UK my ability to actually punch you in the face is pretty minimal. Are you compelled to get on a plane to the US to defned yourself? No. Are you actually at risk? Not really.
(Disclaimer: I harbour no desire to punch Fluff in the face. In fact I think he's a cool guy and while we rarely agree Id still like to hang out with him.)
It would be to support an ally against a common enemy. Therefore the US did not ferry stuff across the Atlantic on an altruistic basis.Damn True said:
It simply gets tiring to hear the US chest-beating. It is not yet the most powerful nation of all time (in relative terms), and it has yet to save the world single-handedly. As a nation it falls prey to its own self-image and that is one of its greatest flaws.
If it weren't for us, you'd be speaking French... :evil:
You obvioulsy did not see the movie Independance Day, starring the delightful Will Smith.fluff said:
No, but I did see Mars Attacks.MMike said:
If it weren't for you frickin Euros we'd be all speaking Cherokee, or something like that. Actually most of us wouldn't even be here.fluff said:
dan-o said:
Still waiting for you to tell me how the US was meant to stay out of the war DT?
I read through the thread and thought I would add some historical facts to people's discussions, bantering and soap boxing.
FACT:
Japan did not declare war on the US before they bombed Pearl Harbor. As a matter of fact, many of the Japanese soliders had problems with this b/c attacking an enemy without a declaration of war was against bushido and military code. They attacked us to cripple us, so we would not impede on their expansion not start a war. Very similiar to what they did to Russion years before. We then declared war on them! Plus, Japan figured we had no capability to bring the war to them much like Germany had no capability to bring the war to us. However, back then it was a different time and we had a set on us and did not care about PR or civilians, so thanks to the Doolittle raid, we were able to strike right back at the Japanese people.
WRT, the European campaign, did we save Europe from the Nazis? Yes and no. Germany had the best army on the planet bar none! However, that army had to slug it out with a number of countries (except France, j/king) so by the time the US got to the scene the Germanys already had gone 8 rounds with Tyson, and we hit into them with fresh troops and a ton of supplies. If it was an even match up we would have gotten our butts kicked like all the other European countries, yes, even England. What won the war for the allies was the exact reason why the Civil war was won by the North here in the US. Dollars and un-harrassed Industry and production. Remember we were not getting bombed while we were producing 8 billion tanks and planes, conversly we were bombing the Germans back to the stone age at there production cities. No other country in the histroy of the world was as productive as the US during the war years and that was what turned the tide on the front lines. So were we (US) the bad a$$ that kick a$$ on the battlefield, umm, maybe but it was more that we had more planes and tanks (that we gave to the euros and Russians too) to throw at the Germans plus fresher troops and awesome supply support.
So did we share with the euros the burden of war and had team work going? Again, yes and no. In the begining the euros put up the fight and soften the Germans, we (US)delivered the finishing blow with our economic might. Even in joint battles like D-day, the US put far more men and equipment on the beach cuz we could. So towards the end of the war the US bore the burden of the fighting but it was the euros that soften up the opponent first.
Could the euros have won w/o the US...not in a million years. Germany had all of Europe and England was the verge of collapse. Germany could have easily invaded England and stayed! W/O US airpower the Germans could have kept their production going in the eastern part of europe and extended the war until England was finished (attrition). Then, turn their full attention to the Russians, along with all the new weapons the Germanies would have developed (many were in there late stages but US airpower disrupted production) Russia would have fell shortly afterwards. That is why we got into it b/c if England fell we would be fighting them by ourselves. Fight now or fight later!
Back to Japan, if we were not fighting the Germans we would have crushed Japan in a year. This was reconized by Admiral Yamamoto, once the US declared war on Japan he was the first to say we will never win against their economic might.. "the sleeping giant" P.S. He was schooled in the US.
So there it is, setting the record straight, sorry it is a little different than the lies you were taught about in history class.
On with the discussion of the quote ;-)
FACT:
Japan did not declare war on the US before they bombed Pearl Harbor. As a matter of fact, many of the Japanese soliders had problems with this b/c attacking an enemy without a declaration of war was against bushido and military code. They attacked us to cripple us, so we would not impede on their expansion not start a war. Very similiar to what they did to Russion years before. We then declared war on them! Plus, Japan figured we had no capability to bring the war to them much like Germany had no capability to bring the war to us. However, back then it was a different time and we had a set on us and did not care about PR or civilians, so thanks to the Doolittle raid, we were able to strike right back at the Japanese people.
WRT, the European campaign, did we save Europe from the Nazis? Yes and no. Germany had the best army on the planet bar none! However, that army had to slug it out with a number of countries (except France, j/king) so by the time the US got to the scene the Germanys already had gone 8 rounds with Tyson, and we hit into them with fresh troops and a ton of supplies. If it was an even match up we would have gotten our butts kicked like all the other European countries, yes, even England. What won the war for the allies was the exact reason why the Civil war was won by the North here in the US. Dollars and un-harrassed Industry and production. Remember we were not getting bombed while we were producing 8 billion tanks and planes, conversly we were bombing the Germans back to the stone age at there production cities. No other country in the histroy of the world was as productive as the US during the war years and that was what turned the tide on the front lines. So were we (US) the bad a$$ that kick a$$ on the battlefield, umm, maybe but it was more that we had more planes and tanks (that we gave to the euros and Russians too) to throw at the Germans plus fresher troops and awesome supply support.
So did we share with the euros the burden of war and had team work going? Again, yes and no. In the begining the euros put up the fight and soften the Germans, we (US)delivered the finishing blow with our economic might. Even in joint battles like D-day, the US put far more men and equipment on the beach cuz we could. So towards the end of the war the US bore the burden of the fighting but it was the euros that soften up the opponent first.
Could the euros have won w/o the US...not in a million years. Germany had all of Europe and England was the verge of collapse. Germany could have easily invaded England and stayed! W/O US airpower the Germans could have kept their production going in the eastern part of europe and extended the war until England was finished (attrition). Then, turn their full attention to the Russians, along with all the new weapons the Germanies would have developed (many were in there late stages but US airpower disrupted production) Russia would have fell shortly afterwards. That is why we got into it b/c if England fell we would be fighting them by ourselves. Fight now or fight later!
Back to Japan, if we were not fighting the Germans we would have crushed Japan in a year. This was reconized by Admiral Yamamoto, once the US declared war on Japan he was the first to say we will never win against their economic might.. "the sleeping giant" P.S. He was schooled in the US.
So there it is, setting the record straight, sorry it is a little different than the lies you were taught about in history class.
On with the discussion of the quote ;-)