[valve bouncer]

I read through the thread and thought I would add some historical facts to people's discussions, bantering and soap boxing.
FACT:



On with the discussion of the quote ;-)

SEE DT, he agrees with me, that means I'm much more cleverer than you/
(SDH- you are far too a smart bugger to post here, so f*ck off )

 

[SkaredShtles]

Germany's single greatest blunder was the attack on Russia. If Hitler had focused on the invasion of Britian he'd likely have taken the islands in very short order. But he needed oil for the war machine, and his sense of destiny overshadowed his poor grasp of military strategy.

So he opened two massive fronts - both of which needed large quantities of manpower to hold & patrol. He $hit right in his own bed.........

The world got lucky that Hitler was a nutjob and was unable to think clearly about half the time.

-S.S.-

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

to SDH..
your post reminded me of something i read quite a while ago..
wars are not won on the the field, wars are won on the factories
quite true.

 

[SDH]

Germany's single greatest blunder was the attack on Russia. If Hitler had focused on the invasion of Britian he'd likely have taken the islands in very short order. But he needed oil for the war machine, and his sense of destiny overshadowed his poor grasp of military strategy.

So he opened two massive fronts - both of which needed large quantities of manpower to hold & patrol. He $hit right in his own bed.........

The world got lucky that Hitler was a nutjob and was unable to think clearly about half the time.

-S.S.-

Yup, if he would have listened to his General's we would have been in a lot of trouble and in it for the LONG haul.

PS
Another little known fact was the Germans were a few months away from getting nuclear capability and one of the primary drop locations was NYC! Imagine a V-2 equiped nuke. Russia and England would have fell in months!

 

[SkaredShtles]

Yup, if he would have listened to his General's we would have been in a lot of trouble and in it for the LONG haul.

Absolutely. His Generals were quite talented. Some were bona fide military geniuses. The Allies would've been fairly f**ked if MeglaMan had let the generals do their thing. Hell, once Stalin was knocked off, Russia probably would've joined the Axis cause.

PS
Another little known fact was the Germans were a few months away from getting nuclear capability and one of the primary drop locations was NYC! Imagine a V-2 equiped nuke. Russia and England would have fell in months!

My dad was a handyman and did work for an old guy in Michigan who was one of the German physicists working on the German nuke project. Wish I could remember the old dude's name...........

-S.S.-

 

[fluff]

In the interests of pedantry:

Japan did not declare war on the US before they bombed Pearl Harbor. As a matter of fact, many of the Japanese soliders had problems with this b/c attacking an enemy without a declaration of war was against bushido and military code. They attacked us to cripple us, so we would not impede on their expansion not start a war. Very similiar to what they did to Russion years before. We then declared war on them! Plus, Japan figured we had no capability to bring the war to them much like Germany had no capability to bring the war to us. However, back then it was a different time and we had a set on us and did not care about PR or civilians, so thanks to the Doolittle raid, we were able to strike right back at the Japanese people.

The Japanese knew that war with the US was inevitable, they wanted to expand their empire into areas that the US would not allow so they performed a pre-emptive strike at Pearl Harbor to try and cripple the US ability to take the war to them (they knew that maritime power was crucial). The Doolittle raid achieved nothing beyond morale-boosting PR for the US public.

WRT, the European campaign, did we save Europe from the Nazis? Yes and no. Germany had the best army on the planet bar none! However, that army had to slug it out with a number of countries (except France, j/king) so by the time the US got to the scene the Germanys already had gone 8 rounds with Tyson, and we hit into them with fresh troops and a ton of supplies. If it was an even match up we would have gotten our butts kicked like all the other European countries, yes, even England. What won the war for the allies was the exact reason why the Civil war was won by the North here in the US. Dollars and un-harrassed Industry and production. Remember we were not getting bombed while we were producing 8 billion tanks and planes, conversly we were bombing the Germans back to the stone age at there production cities. No other country in the histroy of the world was as productive as the US during the war years and that was what turned the tide on the front lines. So were we (US) the bad a$$ that kick a$$ on the battlefield, umm, maybe but it was more that we had more planes and tanks (that we gave to the euros and Russians too) to throw at the Germans plus fresher troops and awesome supply support.

So did we share with the euros the burden of war and had team work going? Again, yes and no. In the begining the euros put up the fight and soften the Germans, we (US)delivered the finishing blow with our economic might. Even in joint battles like D-day, the US put far more men and equipment on the beach cuz we could. So towards the end of the war the US bore the burden of the fighting but it was the euros that soften up the opponent first.

Could the euros have won w/o the US...not in a million years. Germany had all of Europe and England was the verge of collapse. Germany could have easily invaded England and stayed! W/O US airpower the Germans could have kept their production going in the eastern part of europe and extended the war until England was finished (attrition). Then, turn their full attention to the Russians, along with all the new weapons the Germanies would have developed (many were in there late stages but US airpower disrupted production) Russia would have fell shortly afterwards. That is why we got into it b/c if England fell we would be fighting them by ourselves. Fight now or fight later!

The Germans lost any chance they had of winning the was when they invaded the USSR whilst still having not finished Britain off. That they did so is due to their need for raw materials and oil which were becoming harder to find due to the war.

By the time the US got around to invading mainland Europe the USSR were already advancing against the Germans. So whilst I do not wish to underplay the role of the US, the USSR would probably have defeated the Germans eventually anyway.

And as for the German nuclear capability, most historical sources put it ratehr further away than a few weeks.

 

[SDH]

Fluff,

Keep in mind a few things.......................

WRT Japan, I agree to a point. They never wanted to go to full war with us, just hurt us so we will leave them alone. Since we were not involved in the conflict in Europe, Japan believed we did not have the heart for war so if they hurt us and hurt us bad we would immediately seek terms. mistake #1

WRT the Eastern front, the reason the Russians were gaining ground on the Germans is b/c American air power was destroying the German war machine from above and crippling there industry while American industry was fortifying Russian industry. This is why Stalin wanted the Americans to open another front to relieve the Russians. Cuz granted they were making ground on the Germans they were losing MASSIVE amounts of men.

Hindsight is 20/20, but if Hitler was smart, instead of invading the Ukranine for their resources he should have partnered with them against the Russians. They the Ukran, already hated Stalin for the cleansing he already had committed. But Hitler was wrapped up in that whole superior race thing which clouded his judgement.

 

[fluff]

Fluff,

Keep in mind a few things.......................

WRT Japan, I agree to a point. They never wanted to go to full war with us, just hurt us so we will leave them alone. Since we were not involved in the conflict in Europe, Japan believed we did not have the heart for war so if they hurt us and hurt us bad we would immediately seek terms. mistake #1

WRT the Eastern front, the reason the Russians were gaining ground on the Germans is b/c American air power was destroying the German war machine from above and crippling there industry while American industry was fortifying Russian industry. This is why Stalin wanted the Americans to open another front to relieve the Russians. Cuz granted they were making ground on the Germans they were losing MASSIVE amounts of men.

Hindsight is 20/20, but if Hitler was smart, instead of invading the Ukranine for their resources he should have partnered with them against the Russians. They the Ukran, already hated Stalin for the cleansing he already had committed. But Hitler was wrapped up in that whole superior race thing which clouded his judgement.

We could go on for days, why did Hitler not go around Stalingrad, why did he not continue to Moscow, why did the US not simply parachute straight into Berlin in 1941 and save everyone a whole lot of trouble?

This is a complex issue and does not benefit from the over-simplification necessary in this forum, suffice it to say that the US did not prevail alone, nor did anyone else. What would have happened if the US had not got involved is not a question that can be answered accurately.

 

[SDH]

We could go on for days, why did Hitler not go around Stalingrad, why did he not continue to Moscow, why did the US not simply parachute straight into Berlin in 1941 and save everyone a whole lot of trouble?

This is a complex issue and does not benefit from the over-simplification necessary in this forum, suffice it to say that the US did not prevail alone, nor did anyone else. What would have happened if the US had not got involved is not a question that can be answered accurately.

True it would go on and on.................

My main point though I think we can agree on is factories (bombing theirs and spinning ours up to maximum output) beat the Germans and not so much armies plus a few dumb moves by Hitler cause Germany to lose the war.