That is stupid. Yeah if you live the racer life and surround yourself with racers, the people you meet who can ride will be racers. Brilliant.LukeD said:
racers cant huck
- Thread starter Pip3r
- Start date
So trueOGRipper said:
I wonder where that puts paul basagotia?
He doesn't race mountain bikes but he sure seems able to make them do some pretty neat things with him attached to them.
Yeah there are so many examples of why that is a screwy thing to say. I guess Bearclaw has no skills either.kidwoo said:
First, um dude have you been paying attention to the industry recently? There is a lot of development that has nothing to do with racing. Slopestyle, urban, 26" jump bikes, etc.atrokz said:
Second, I think you are wrong - see Paul B, Berrecloth, etc. And anyway, big time comps have not been around that long. Until very recently, pretty much the only way to get sponsors, exposure, and make a living riding is to race, even if they would rather be doing something else.
Him not seeming to "ride it very well" would appear to be you bagging his riding ability (although I could be wrong, I might have accidentally intepreted it exactly the way it sounded). He's sketchy and loose as ****, but he's also consistently fast, and IMO that says something for his skills. You don't get to that level AND stay there by being a hack who's simply fearless.kidwoo said:
For sure, Hardtails need lots of development ;POGRipper said:
that being said, I should have noted that I'm refering to full suspension bikes, and that development is handy with racing as it covers more areas of ground work imo (drops + very high speeds + the technicalitys of cornering, etc) thus racing helps a company develop product well. The second point is moot: Gracia, Vanderham, etc. The list goes on, and even so, Berrecloth was racing BMX for starts. None the less, the topic is 'racers cant huck' and I think from all the Rampages we've been shown how incorrect this statement is.
cheers
a
You read correctly.thaflyinfatman said:
But if you're too stubborn to appreciate that someone who rides sloppy as hell regardless of net speed making a broad generalization, talking smack about the best riders being only found in racing as ironic then......well I don't know...you have a personal kirkaldie/observation disconnect or something. Either that or you're trying to get a date.
In that case, my sincerest apologies. Kirkaldie dances with his bicycle like a swan and has a right to say whatever he pleases no matter how obtuse, free of criticism.
Well, what you call sloppy is just what I call loose (hah, now that one's gonna be taken out of context 
). You think he's a crap rider despite being fast, I think he's just got an insane ability to control the bike in a manner where most other people would have eaten **** long ago. Take your pick, but the fact that his results are so consistent would tend to back up my POV, in my estimation.
Regardless, I think he makes a reasonable comment; most of the "freeriders"/huckers who are good riders (Simmons, Vanderham, Watson, Strait, etc etc) are/were racers too. Yeah there's a lot of good riders about who don't race... but I do think it's fair to say that most people who are really skilful riders (on big rigs anyway, street/dirtjumping/bmx is a whole different game) race or raced DH. That's been very much my experience anyway.
). You think he's a crap rider despite being fast, I think he's just got an insane ability to control the bike in a manner where most other people would have eaten **** long ago. Take your pick, but the fact that his results are so consistent would tend to back up my POV, in my estimation.Regardless, I think he makes a reasonable comment; most of the "freeriders"/huckers who are good riders (Simmons, Vanderham, Watson, Strait, etc etc) are/were racers too. Yeah there's a lot of good riders about who don't race... but I do think it's fair to say that most people who are really skilful riders (on big rigs anyway, street/dirtjumping/bmx is a whole different game) race or raced DH. That's been very much my experience anyway.
You are correct with your first point, but your second? Vanderham and Gracia haven't placed well in a comp for days ro. Berrecloth's background as a BMX racer is insignifigant compared to his background as a BMX "freestyler," thats where freeride comps are going these days: BMX tricks on the mountain. I don't see any racers doing well in these, besides peeps like Strait.atrokz said:
Come on.
I NEVER said he was a crap rider. If that were the case, I wouldn't know his name and he wouldn't have his little soapbox in the video. But as far as the fast guys go, look at minnaar, hill, rennie, barel.........they are "loose", usually faster and consistently a hell of a lot more in control of their bikes than kirkaldie.
Trust me, I only wish I could ride as fast as the guy, but I pray to gawd I never ride/look like that in order to reach that speed.
And when someone has to look like he does to reach the speed of everyone else he's racing against who DOESN'T look like he does makes a comment about what the "best" bike riders do or don't do, it's worthy of me making the funny. Cuz personally, I do think the skills that someone like berrecloth posesses are just as valid as those possesed by the people stressing seconds for a living. And kirkaldie is one of those few pros who I've never seen do anything else but race. When you look at what gracia and rennie do in their freetime with dirtjumping and a bit of freeriding or whatever you want to call it, kirkaldie just sounds like an insulated little brat who associates only with his ilk but feels free to condescend to the rest of the bike riding community.
So do you honestly have a problem with at least seeing my point?
I NEVER said he was a crap rider. If that were the case, I wouldn't know his name and he wouldn't have his little soapbox in the video. But as far as the fast guys go, look at minnaar, hill, rennie, barel.........they are "loose", usually faster and consistently a hell of a lot more in control of their bikes than kirkaldie.
Trust me, I only wish I could ride as fast as the guy, but I pray to gawd I never ride/look like that in order to reach that speed.
And when someone has to look like he does to reach the speed of everyone else he's racing against who DOESN'T look like he does makes a comment about what the "best" bike riders do or don't do, it's worthy of me making the funny. Cuz personally, I do think the skills that someone like berrecloth posesses are just as valid as those possesed by the people stressing seconds for a living. And kirkaldie is one of those few pros who I've never seen do anything else but race. When you look at what gracia and rennie do in their freetime with dirtjumping and a bit of freeriding or whatever you want to call it, kirkaldie just sounds like an insulated little brat who associates only with his ilk but feels free to condescend to the rest of the bike riding community.
So do you honestly have a problem with at least seeing my point?
Kidwoo, You dont know JK from a bar of soap, yet you feel obliged to pass judgement on his character from what youve seen on a video and what you think you know?
Hes only in your country to race his bike, that what hes paid to do, he spends as little time there as possible these days.
So maybe he says what he thinks at times (freeriders=" riders who arent fast enough to race" is another pearler)
But he puts back to the sport in this country, runs coaching clinics and such, is partner in a distribution company , races motos back here.
Yeah he may be a bit ragged at times, and could never be described as smooth, but doesnt change the fact hes faster than any american dher currently and for the last 5 years.
Im sure youll shoot me down, But at least I know the guy and have had more than a couple decent conversations jk in the recent past, Im pretty sure Ive got a little more of a grasp on his personality that yourself.
Hes only in your country to race his bike, that what hes paid to do, he spends as little time there as possible these days.
So maybe he says what he thinks at times (freeriders=" riders who arent fast enough to race" is another pearler)
But he puts back to the sport in this country, runs coaching clinics and such, is partner in a distribution company , races motos back here.
Yeah he may be a bit ragged at times, and could never be described as smooth, but doesnt change the fact hes faster than any american dher currently and for the last 5 years.
Im sure youll shoot me down, But at least I know the guy and have had more than a couple decent conversations jk in the recent past, Im pretty sure Ive got a little more of a grasp on his personality that yourself.
I see your point fine. I just think it's wrong. I know Kirkcaldie goes dirtjumping and whatnot in his spare time too (and he's pretty good at it, better than I'll ever be), do you really think all he does is ride his DH bike down between the bunting? If you don't like his style, fine, but to say that he's out of control is extremely presumptuous, because he can do it consistently and not crash any more than other riders.
Yeah like I said, there are good riders out there who don't race. Berrecloth and Basagiotia (sp) are a couple who (as far as I know) don't have any background in racing, and can ride the wheels off anything - however to not have a DH background does appear to be pretty uncommon for riders of that level. But I don't think that makes Kirkcaldie's comment any less correct (regardless of how PC it is, and I agree that it's a pretty condescending and useless thing to say whether it's accurate or not) - MOST people who ride like that do or have raced DH and done well at it. All the better-known huckers over here (Ben Watkins, Johnny Dawe, Timon Wegner, Grant Allen, Jesus, etc - no I don't expect you to have heard of half of those, hucking isn't a big thing over here) are also extremely competent racers.
Strangely enough, you use Rennie as an example, and I quote him: "Freerider stands for "f**k I suck at racing" ".
BTW, you "never said he was a crap rider?"
"Him not seeming to "ride it very well" would appear to be you bagging his riding ability "
"You read correctly."
What else am I supposed to intepret that as?
Yeah like I said, there are good riders out there who don't race. Berrecloth and Basagiotia (sp) are a couple who (as far as I know) don't have any background in racing, and can ride the wheels off anything - however to not have a DH background does appear to be pretty uncommon for riders of that level. But I don't think that makes Kirkcaldie's comment any less correct (regardless of how PC it is, and I agree that it's a pretty condescending and useless thing to say whether it's accurate or not) - MOST people who ride like that do or have raced DH and done well at it. All the better-known huckers over here (Ben Watkins, Johnny Dawe, Timon Wegner, Grant Allen, Jesus, etc - no I don't expect you to have heard of half of those, hucking isn't a big thing over here) are also extremely competent racers.
Strangely enough, you use Rennie as an example, and I quote him: "Freerider stands for "f**k I suck at racing" ".
BTW, you "never said he was a crap rider?"
"Him not seeming to "ride it very well" would appear to be you bagging his riding ability "
"You read correctly."
What else am I supposed to intepret that as?
Really? No I mean really? Cuz I remember stating quite a bit about how me n' jonny grew up together and how I have a very firm understanding of his personallity........and not just one comment in a film. Because after all, it would be absolutely foolish for you to go on such a tirade about who he is as a person based on one little comment from me about one little comment from him. I mean surely there must be more.Banga said:
Can't seem to find it in this thread though.........Hmmm
So anyway, Let's review
Which is really all I ever said with reference to his comment about the best bike riders being racers and the irony contained within.Banga said:
Thanks for playing!
We already covered this. Kirkaldie = swan.thaflyinfatman said:
Just like the little tykes on southpark, I've learned something today.
I'm wrong about my opinion about his opinion.
I know that now. Thank you all for setting me straight and helping me to see the error in my ways. There was in fact absolutely no irony in Kirkaldies comment. All the best riders do in fact race. And by best riders, that means fastest down a racecourse, regardless of grace. It's all so clear now. Really. Thank you.
kidwoo said:
Maybe I didnt quite make myself as clear as I could have been,
I didnt mean to get into a slagging match with you by any means.
"There's a bike going downhill and kirkaldie is usually somewhere near it, maybe even attached, but "riding" it seems to not happen very well."
sure hes loose and ragged, but hes still riding the bike, doesnt matter what it looks like, if its upright hes still riding it.
"kirkaldie is one of those few pros who I've never seen do anything else but race. When you look at what gracia and rennie do in their freetime with dirtjumping and a bit of freeriding or whatever you want to call it, kirkaldie just sounds like an insulated little brat who associates only with his ilk but feels free to condescend to the rest of the bike riding community."
Thats what I saw as you judging his personality and who he is,
Im sure thats not what you ment though.
I dont know whether you were being sarcastic( highly probable) in your reply, or not, but point out to me in this thread where you said about growing up with him and Ill happily apologise.
I've been sarcastic in every response of mine in this entire thread, including my very first post. I mean no ill will towards you, the fat man who flies or anyone who makes a living riding bikes, regardless about how they make me feel when I see them ride. I promise. But I, like everyone else has a right to an opinion, especailly about something as subjective as how someone looks riding a bicycle. And when someone wants to argue with me about someone's accomplishments when I make fun of them for making a stupid comment, then I'm gonna poke the stick some more. That's really all there is to it. I have nothing against your bud JK. Honestly. Like I said before, I wish I could ride a bike that fast. But even if I do, I'll never make such a short-sighted comment about a sect of bicycle riding like he did. But again, I fully realize that's only a snippet and has nothing to do with the whole person.Banga said:
thats why the second point is mootThe Kadvang said:
DH bikes are seeing subtle refinement but little revolution. I mean air shocks are probably the most interesting development for DH in the last three years. Sure there are some cool drivetrain ideas, but none that are exclusive to DH and none that are that widely available yet. On the other hand, shorter travel big hit bikes, long travel single crown forks, complete parts groups, and a lot of other products are happening as a result of slopestyle and freeride - that's where the exciting developments are right now in my opinion. And actually, yeah I think hardtails needed some development for freeride, urban, etc. You don't need FS to be innovative.atrokz said:
But yeah, the idea that racers can't huck is just as stupid as saying huckers don't know how to ride. Both are sweeping generalizations that are easily disproven.
Seriously! This topic is retarded.OGRipper said:
Discussing JK's style is pretty interesting, cuz from what I can tell it's actually pretty common in the DH world for people to either be really, really sketchy, or just sooth and incontrol. However, usually when these somewhat out of control dudes get into a situation where mortals would crash and die, they possess the skills, experience and confidence to reel it back in. JK is really good at not crashing, but he does ride over the top fast at times. I'd rather not name people who use this style cuz there will be peeps who take this the wrong way.
On the other hand there are smoother riders, who make fewer errors, ride smoothly and gracefully. Both types get great results, and many people utilize both styles. We've all seen Minnaar looking sketch out of control, and I'm sure JK can ride smooth as glass through many sections he chooses to just charge. Is one "better" than the other? Depends if you're spectating or riding. It's more fun for the spectators to see crazy fast sketchy dudes, but it's better for riders' health to be more in control. Mmmm I wanna ride my bike now!
