racial double standards at the news stand

LordOpie · Aug 23, 2003

i think it's cuz most of the magazines -- before these racial-targeted pubs hit the scene -- were focused and designed for white people. They don't have to say "White-bread Weekly" for it to be primarily for white people.

Silver · Aug 23, 2003

****, I'm agreeing with Opie again.

You ever flip through a Ladies Home Journal? It ain't targeted at a minority woman in the inner city, I'll tell you that right now...

LordOpie · Aug 23, 2003

Originally posted by Silver
****, I'm agreeing with Opie again.

you'll get used to it

Originally posted by Silver
You ever flip through a Ladies Home Journal?

something you want to tell us?

(you're a guy, right?)

laura · Aug 23, 2003

Originally posted by LordOpie
i think it's cuz most of the magazines -- before these racial-targeted pubs hit the scene -- were focused and designed for white people. They don't have to say "White-bread Weekly" for it to be primarily for white people.

very true and it's rare that you will see anyone but white women on the cover of cosmo or fitness or parenting.

the double stnadard doesnt piss me off in entertainment, its different culture. they want seperate magazines. i cant blame them. what pisses me off is when i read through the list of student groups at my school and its

future black business leader
african american lawyers association
african american psychology association
blah blah blah

the point of learning and higher education is to be ready for the outside world. not to limit yourself to people of you own color. i have often thought of joining these groups just to see what goes on in a black student club as opposed to a white one. these groups only perpetuate the seperation that is so obvious in this country.

LoboDelFuego · Aug 23, 2003

Im ok with having cultural variations of magazines, that makes sense only because one mag cant cover all different variations of cultural activities (music, cooking, fashion). The problem is that they are labeled racially. First thats negative because it perpetuates segregation. Secondly, its just stupid because cultures arent set by race. Example: if you were white and were adopted by Japanese parents, your culture would be that of japan and asia, not of your white race.

The great thing about capitalism is that we can weigh everything through a monetary calculus. If more people buy "BLACK Magazine" than "Afrikan Culture" then we get stuck with the idiotic racial title.

ummbikes · Sep 11, 2003

Originally posted by mr_dove
It's not the existence of the racially oriented magazines that bothers me. I think it's the reaction that would take place if there WERE magazines with white names.

It's a simple double standard.

There is no double standard in having a magazine targeted to race. The reason there are not magazines with word White in the title is that caucasians are the ex nomative economic force in the United States. Everything is for caucasians except for that which is blanantly not for caucasians ie. Ebony or Jet magazine.

You are correct in your assumption that there would be a reaction if a magazine were marketed as a "white" publication. Our society is no longer tolerant of blatant racism.

You know I just recalled where I have heard your argument before, it was a documentary I watched on David Duke.

Silver · Sep 11, 2003

Originally posted by ummbikes

You know I just recalled where I have heard your argument before, it was a documentary I watched on David Duke.

Dude, I think Mr. Dove is Mormon (correct me if I'm wrong here sir.) They just aren't used to black people, so cut him some slack. Ever been to Utah? It's so white there, I need to wear sunglasses to walk around the streets.

ummbikes · Sep 11, 2003

Originally posted by Silver
Dude, I think Mr. Dove is Mormon (correct me if I'm wrong here sir.) They just aren't used to black people, so cut him some slack. Ever been to Utah? It's so white there, I need to wear sunglasses to walk around the streets.

How does his location and religious affiliation play into this? Heck, I'm a Free Methodist and live in Washington do I get some slack too?

Silver · Sep 11, 2003

Originally posted by ummbikes
How does his location and religious affiliation play into this? Heck, I'm a Free Methodist and live in Washington do I get some slack too?

Mind if I answer a question with a question?

Why aren't there many black Mormons?

You get no slack due to the racial stereotype your avatar displays

ummbikes · Sep 11, 2003

Originally posted by Silver

You get no slack due to the racial stereotype your avatar displays

Hehe. I like Speedy! It was pretty much him or Cheech when I was kid for us Mexican kids to look up too.

Silver · Sep 11, 2003

Originally posted by mr_dove
Don't know who David Duke is, sorry. I'm sure it was an insult though. Oh, well.

I am Mormon. never lived in Utah though. Mostly white and hispanic places though. Washington, Idaho, Arizona, New York, and Colorado.

I still think there is a double standard. Non-racial magazines "may" be primarily white but none of them are exclusively white or marketed exclusively at whites. They may have primarily white readership but that's not usually the result of white marketing or being specifically aimed at whites.

These black magazines are specifically targeted "exclusively" at blacks to the exclusion of other races.

David Duke is pretty notorious. He's a hardcore white supremacist who was high up in the KKK in the 70's I think. Currently in jail, I believe, but still getting his message out due to the wonder that is the world wide web.

Ebony makes sense to me. You have a market, you target it, you can sell targeted ads. If you can find a niche, you'll probably do ok. You don't need to put "White" in front of "Field and Stream." It's superfluous.

ummbikes · Sep 11, 2003

Originally posted by mr_dove
see, but field and stream is not aimed at whites. It's aimed at sportsmen. If mostly white people read it, that's just happenstance, not intention.

It isn't an accident. It targeting a vey specific segment of the marketplace.

Silver · Sep 11, 2003

Originally posted by mr_dove
see, but field and stream is not aimed at whites. It's aimed at sportsmen. If mostly white people read it, that's just happenstance, not intention.

Put it this way:

If you're in a minority, reading a mainstream magazine can be like reading Sports Illustrated looking for cycling coverage. Sure there may be a little bit here and there, but you want to read about cycling, not football. Ergo, you buy a bike magazine, not the general interest one. You're in a sport that a minority of people have an interest in.

Admittedly, race is different because you don't get to pick it. You are what you are. I'm sure there are magazines marketed STRICTLY to whites. David Duke probably does an editorial every month. Or you could just pick up the latest Republican campaign literature. A normal newsstand isn't going to carry them, for the same reason a normal newstand isn't going to carry scat magazines from Germany. Not enough people are interested to make up for the offensive nature of the magazine.

This might be an issue to get your panties in a wad about if newsstands refused to sell a white person a copy of Ebony. You might get a funny look (Heck, I get it all the time when I buy the aforementioned German scat magazines,) but they'll sell it to you.

ummbikes · Sep 12, 2003

Originally posted by mr_dove
Do honestly believe that only white people read that kind of publication though? At least on a scale relative to the number of white people reading Ebony and Black Enterprise.

I would guess that these magazines are much more monochromatic than the "white" ones.

Maybe it's just how it makes people feel. I'm kinda offended by all the magazines that specifically exclude so many other people. These so called "white" magazines don't exclude people. They don't say, "Black people can't read this". Magazines with highly racial titles effectively say, "black people only".

Silver:
You make a good point about different issues affecting different segments of the population. In reviewing some of the titles that I listed it seems to be largely true. Some of them don't fit the bill though. Black Outdoorsman. The outdoors is pretty much the same regardless of race.

Dove let me try and restate what I'm getting at. First off the vast majority of magazines are not specificly targeting white people. The vast majority of magaines are trying to target a very specific segment of the population however and in the case of the United States that is going to mean targeting to a specific economic and sex based target. For example Car and Driver is seeking a reading audience of males 18-60 with the economic standing to purchace an automobile. Cosmo is seeking the 18-34 year old female with the income level that allows them to spring for $30 bottles of lotion. In both cases these targets are middle to upper middle class readers.

The vast majority of middle to upper middle class people in the United States are going to be caucasian based on every study I have read. This is what I mean when I refer to the ex nomative of the population. They are in a marketors eyes the target audience and in the United States they are a mostly white.

So the vast majority of print, television and films are going to be targeted to this demographic.

Now that leads us to niche marketing. So now in America you have several "minority" groups who have some serious purchacing power. If the people selling goods want to reach these markets they need to target the publications (or simply create the publications) that will reach these prospective buyers.

In the case of the Black community there are a few very well established magazines like Ebony and Jet that have been around for quite a long time. But like Readers Digest and Life these magazines are drawing an increasingly aged reader. Thus the creation of many new magazines targeting a more youthful ever increasingly affluent reader. The reason for MANY new titles is most will fail. That is the nature of the magazine business.

As far as the Latino market goes just look up the value of Telemundo and Galavision. Latinos have money now too and like all Americans are quite happy to spend it.

The stick stirring this pot isn't out to get whitey but is simply out to realize a sucsessful advertising campaign tageting a market that is likely to buy their products or services.

Now if you want to read Ebony, they'll be glad to sell you a copy and absolutely thrilled if you buy the products advertised in it.

spincrazy · Sep 12, 2003

[this person has been placed on your Ignore list....]

ummbikes · Sep 12, 2003

Originally posted by mr_dove

I can buy the fact that there are in fact sufficient differences between different racial groups that it would be disirable and profitable for magazine producers to go after those demographics.

I guess then my work here is done.

Oh, I have taken a little marketing, but the focus was on political campaigns.

I did read some good books on the subject though. Check out Adcult by James Twitchell for a history of advertising in the U.S. and Rich Media, Poor Democracy by Robert McChesney for more of the "stick that stirs us."

ohio · Sep 12, 2003

Originally posted by mr_dove
see, but field and stream is not aimed at whites. It's aimed at sportsmen. If mostly white people read it, that's just happenstance, not intention.

Then why include in your list the following?:

Americas
footsteps
Essence
Honey
Heart and Soul
Hype Hair
sister 2 sister
the source
Venus
Pose
family digest
Focus
Rithm and Blues
SistaPower
Shades of Love
gyrl
cinemasista
The conduit
HealthQuest

Those titles don't seem to be exclusively black... some of them describe an urban culture, or appeal to a certain vernacular. The fact that the majority of the people that are part of that culture are Black is happenstance.... :rolleyes:

That "hype hair" is a perfect example of why magazines like this exist. Pick up a Cosmo and look at tips on hairstyling... tell me if any of them are applicable to someone that has tightly curled hair. Now they didn't title their magazine "black hair" or "african locks"... they just called it hype hair, because a magazine was needed to help women who have a hair type not served by traditional beauty mags. What p[art of that is wrong?

Mocha · Sep 12, 2003

Originally posted by mr_dove

It does make me wonder if all these magazines aimed at minorities harms the "equality" movement by emphasizing the differences between races and quite possibly widening the "racial divide".

NO. There are differences between us. That's why race was constructed in the first place. These magazines make it bearable to live in a society where 99% of the people around you are physically different. Take a trip to Japan or China and see how out of place you feel. (I'm assuming you're not asian). That's how I feel everyday.

What harms the "equality movement" is caucasian people thinking they are better, more intelligent, less primitive (I hate to use that word, but it still applies), etc, than minorities.

Universe · Sep 12, 2003

Originally posted by Mocha
NO. There are differences between us. That's why race was constructed in the first place. These magazines make it bearable to live in a society where 99% of the people around you are physically different. Take a trip to Japan or China and see how out of place you feel. (I'm assuming you're not asian). That's how I feel everyday.

What harms the "equality movement" is caucasian people thinking they are better, more intelligent, less primitive (I hate to use that word, but it still applies), etc, than minorities.

I am definitely more primitive than you. This I think we both know

BurlyShirley · Sep 18, 2003

Originally posted by Mocha

What harms the "equality movement" is caucasian people thinking they are better, more intelligent, less primitive (I hate to use that word, but it still applies), etc, than minorities.

I think these people are so few and far between that they have little effect on any type of "movement".

I think the stereotypes like the one you just made create more animosity than is really there to begin with.

Transcend · Sep 23, 2003

Originally posted by ummbikes

You know I just recalled where I have heard your argument before, it was a documentary I watched on David Duke.

Oh give it a rest. It is a total double standard. Would I read white bread mag? no.

As a journalist however, I am extremely annoyed that the fact of the matter is, it couldn't exist if we wanted it to due to the NAACP and other oraganizations liek it.

They would go ape ****.

I want to see White entertainment television (no not ABC). One with golf and curling bad 80s music and hockey. Streotypes, yes. I just want to see if for the damn controversy.

LordOpie · Sep 24, 2003

Originally posted by Transcend
One with golf and curling bad 80s music and hockey. Streotypes, yes. I just want to see if for the damn controversy.

golf... Golf TV
bad 80s music... VH-1
hockey... ESPN2

I hope that helps

laura · Sep 24, 2003

Originally posted by mr_dove
It's not the existence of the racially oriented magazines that bothers me. I think it's the reaction that would take place if there WERE magazines with white names.

It's a simple double standard.

what ought to make you mad is that whites don't even need to put white in the title to have the magazine be all about them... it's a given.

laura · Sep 24, 2003

Originally posted by Mocha
NO. There are differences between us. That's why race was constructed in the first place. These magazines make it bearable to live in a society where 99% of the people around you are physically different. Take a trip to Japan or China and see how out of place you feel. (I'm assuming you're not asian). That's how I feel everyday.

What harms the "equality movement" is caucasian people thinking they are better, more intelligent, less primitive (I hate to use that word, but it still applies), etc, than minorities.

i have to say, i thiink what really harms the equallity movement is the fact that people have stopped talking about the real issues, racism, and have started bull****ting about a few "black magazines".

i am in a social inequallties class and we have yet to have some construcive dialogue on the rift between black and white culture and how we can bring it together. most of the students in the class are black and they talk amongst themselvces about how messed up the system is towards blacks but i feel like they don't want to talk to me about it.

its like after the civil irght movement, we stopped talking. somebody said, "oh that'll shut em up for now" and that was the end. where is the dialogue?

whats up with white dudes gettting pissed off at black hair or black entertainment. be pissed off that there is even a need for these things for a large majority of OUR population to feel like they fit in somewhere.

johnbryanpeters · Sep 24, 2003

Originally posted by BurlySurly
I think these people are so few and far between...

Have you ever lived south of the Mason-Dixon line?

There are a lot of "these people", north and south. Tends to be more overt in the south.

J

laura · Sep 24, 2003

Originally posted by johnbryanpeters
Have you ever lived south of the Mason-Dixon line?

There are a lot of "these people", north and south. Tends to be more overt in the south.

J

pssssst... he's from east tn.

biggins · Sep 24, 2003

ok here i go
to begin with the field and stream example was not a good one because there is no difference between a black hunter and a white hunter. as well as there just arent that many black people that hunt. The need for black hairstyles magazine is not racial its just the fact that blacks have much different hair and therefore have different hairstyles. they can do things to their hair that we would never be able to do with ours.
as for the inequality i think that racial segregation and inequality is at an all time high and i think that we propogate these problems by having different ideals for different cultures. things like the united negro college fund, who cares what color they are if they acheive high enough standards then they get a scholarship. It all leads to one of my major revelations about the country that i have been born and raised in. The reason we dont get anything done in this country is the fact we are to hell bent on starting a group for this and a group for that and too busy whining to do anything about it. too many special interest groups will surely keep anything from happeneing that is beneficial to anyone. United we stand, divided we fall.
as for advertising/marketing, if we have become so braindead and numb that we dont realize that advertising is trying to make us by crap we dont need then we as a species should reclaim the idea that we have choices and no-one is forcing us to do anything we dont wanna do.

rbx · Sep 24, 2003

social equality doesnt have to mean homogeneity.

ummbikes · Sep 24, 2003

Originally posted by laura
what ought to make you mad is that whites don't even need to put white in the title to have the magazine be all about them... it's a given.

I finally found the reference on this:

"It is not merely that to be White is to be not Black; it is also that being "not-Black" is itself part of the very meaning of being White. And being Black always includes being-not-White. The two categories are bound together, each always implicated in the very existence and meaning of the other At the same time, one term is always dominant within the culture; one term defines the norm. The norm is not only positively valued, it is treated as if it were neutral. It does not appear to be an identity at all. It does not need to be named; it remains 'ex-nominated'. For example, although we think of Black as a race with its own characteristics, it is usually measured against an assumed neutral Whiteness that is rarely marked as race.

from the book Media Making: Mass Media in a Popular Culture (1998) By Lawrence Grossberg

Dove this is the key bit of information I was trying to get to.

LordOpie · Sep 24, 2003

Originally posted by rbx
social equality doesnt have to mean homogeneity.

here here! Totally agree!

ohio · Sep 24, 2003

Originally posted by LordOpie
here here! Totally agree!

what if it was hot brown-skinned scantily-clothed homogeneity, a la The Matrix Reloaded?

racial double standards at the news stand

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