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Radial laced front wheel

Discussion in 'BMX & Dirt Jumping' started by ?????, Feb 11, 2008.

  1. ?????

    ????? Turbo Monkey

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    Is this a big no no even if I don't have a front brake?
     

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  2. Cru Jones

    Cru Jones Turbo Monkey

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    It's your face.

    No, just kidding. I'm not real sure, but I think it should be OK. I think BCD did that, didn't he?
     
  3. r464

    r464 Turbo Monkey

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    Radial lacing is stiffer laterally, but less so vertically. It also saves a small amount of weight.
     
  4. cornfed

    cornfed Monkey

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    I don't think ride characteristics differ:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ra-e.html#radial

    I believe radial lacing does increase stress on the hub flange. Spokes tend to loosen more frequently.

    Use a good quality hub with thick flanges and spoke prep and it will be just fine.
     
  5. Bulldog

    Bulldog Turbo Monkey

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    Pretty sure you have that backwards.
     
  6. H8R

    H8R Cranky Pants

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    What reason do you have for doing this?

    Did you buy a bunch of spokes that are too short for 3x?
     
  7. spliffy

    spliffy Monkey

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    most bmxers freek out om a raidial laced front wheel. A 3 cross is stronger but mtbs run raidial laced on jump bikes some times and a 20 inch wheel laced the same would be stoinger since the spokes are shorter, but i still would run 3 cross. If you are doing it for weight just go tie spokes 3 cross on a 36 hole rim my front wheel without a tire is 1.5 pounds profilr mini tie spokes and drilled rino light xl
     
  8. Hougham

    Hougham Monkey

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    Some hubs will not withstand radial lacing. Normally radial hubs have more metal between the edge of the hole for the spoke and the outer flange edge.

    Also there are a few hubs that will simply not fit the spoke in if you try and radial lace. This is normally hubs that are counter sunk or have channels grooved in to them for the spokes.

    Normally cross spoking ends up lighter than radial spoking for a given strength. This is why such wheels were used in the past from everything from prams to motorbikes.
     
  9. BikeSATORI

    BikeSATORI Monkey

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    I think that's the other way around.
    Radial uses less spoke length.


    Way higher maintenance. Not for me. But go ahead and try it out and let us know what you think. :clapping:
     
  10. Hougham

    Hougham Monkey

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    Its because the hub has to be a lot stronger. On a 3 cross the side on in to the hug where as radial pull out. So 3 cross makes for a much stronger wheel unless you put a of meat on the outside of the hub you use for the radial. So a radial 3 cross hub is much lighter than radial. This tend to more than make up for the slightly longer spokes. Unless you start using strait pull spokes.
     
  11. ?????

    ????? Turbo Monkey

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    No reason other than looks and just to find out if it makes a difference.

    I know it's a bad design for disc brakes, but since I don't want to use a front brake, I was reminded of one of my xc bikes from a long time ago with rim brakes that had a radially laced front wheel.
     
  12. DirtBag

    DirtBag Monkey

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    What the hell are you trying to say?? You need a hug??

    Simple laymans terms: Radial lacing makes a stronger wheel in the vertical (front-to-back) direction and less strong in a lateral (side-to-side) hit.

    Now the front wheel is less important as you put more lateral stress (usually) on a back wheel. Usually you are putting more torque and body weight on the rear wheel.

    Radial lacing is more maintenance as you need to tension them with a little more attention on the initial build. With a 3 cross, the difference in stretching is slightly masked by the overlap. Plus radial lacing puts more stress on the spoke and causes a higher % of broken spokes.

    When I used to XC race I always radialed my front and non-drive side rear (before disc brakes). I would snap spokes on the rear wheel once in a while but never the front..
     
  13. chuffer

    chuffer Monkey

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    What Hougham is trying to point out is that the direction that the spoke pulls on the hub flange is important. On a hub that will tolerate radial lacing (either through design or luck, the latter generally being the case in the bike industry) the spoke hole is farther in-board on the hub flange. The upshot of this situation is that radial lacing a hub on which the spoke holes are too close to the edge of the flange will result in the flange breaking or the spokes pulling through the flange. An example of this that I have seen a few times is the older american classic front hub. These were built radially and failed by a large section of the flange breaking off (about 3 spokes worth).

    Some of the lightest wheels I have ever built and raced were 3X. We lightened the wheelset by drilling out the rim between the spoke holes like the old pro-class rims or modern trials rims. We knocked nearly 100 g of the rim weight and the wheels held up no differently than their undrilled cousins.
     
  14. BikeSATORI

    BikeSATORI Monkey

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    Hey, something I can understand! haha... But this still does not mean a wheel laced 3X will be lighter than one laced radially.


    word on the rim drilling.
     
  15. chuffer

    chuffer Monkey

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    Radial will probably be lighter most of the time, but strength to weight ratio will be better with 3X 99.9% of the time. That was also Hougham's point...errr, I think.
     
  16. BikeSATORI

    BikeSATORI Monkey

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    agreed.
     
  17. cornfed

    cornfed Monkey

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  18. Mr Tiles

    Mr Tiles I'm a beer snob

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    ma brane hertz...
     
  19. ÆX

    ÆX Turbo Monkey

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    i like mine. but you have to keep a tighter watch on spoke tension.

    mine has held up fine on botched 180-360's. if you are doing a 24

    i have some spokes left.

     
  20. chuffer

    chuffer Monkey

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    Link does a great job explaining the forces on spokes. However, it completely ignores the hub as a structural element of the wheel. Also, although article touches on the topic, there is no thorough discussion of the effects of spoke pairing and its advantages.

    It really depends on what your design criteria are, i.e. how you define a well built or strong wheel. Some of things pointed out in that article as making cross-laced wheels less rigid are exactly what make them more resilient. Which would you rather have in a wheel? I prefer resilience.
     
  21. ThePriceSeliger

    ThePriceSeliger Mushhead

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    Who's yellow FJ? That thing is badass!!!
     
  22. Mr Tiles

    Mr Tiles I'm a beer snob

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    If it doesn't have rattitude, I'm not interested:monkeydance: