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Radical Islam and that Cartoon again..

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,890
4
Hypernormality
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601116&sid=a85D1c49A1lU&refer=africa

Denmark's three biggest newspapers yesterday printed Kurt Westergaard's cartoon of Muhammad wearing a bomb in his turban, first published in 2005, to show their support for the cartoonist a day after police foiled a murder plot against him. ...

... "It's unacceptable that a Danish newspaper artist has apparently been the target of a murder plan by fanatical Muslims,'' Berlingske said in an editorial. The newspaper said it published the cartoon "to document what's at stake in this case and as unambiguous support for the freedom of expression we all want to defend.''
Call me culturally insensitive if you like but this sort of Islam can fvck right off. :disgust1:
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,672
0
Feeling the lag
Who wants to start printing T shirts with the images on? It's gonna happen sooner or later and they're gonna sell like hotcakes.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,672
0
Feeling the lag
Id like to see you walk the mean streets of Holland wearing one.
It would take about 5minutes before theres a bunch of Muslims in your face about it.
I was simply spotting a business opportunity. I wouldn't wear one any more than I'd wear a T-shirt with the message that Jesus was a homosexual. I do think the reaction to the cartoons is extreme though and republishing was fair enough.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
I was simply spotting a business opportunity. I wouldn't wear one any more than I'd wear a T-shirt with the message that Jesus was a homosexual. I do think the reaction to the cartoons is extreme though and republishing was fair enough.
Probably only slightly more dangerous and extreme as wearing the wrong jersey at a football[soceer] match or in the pub. Add a sporting line of shirts and you'll be set for life.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,060
62
chez moi
I understand, but I just dont think they would sell that well with the whole world being Islamophobic. :busted:
Do you mean "Islamophobic" in the "everyone's scared of Islam because everyone is ignorant and scared into hatred by Bush and Co." manner, or an "everyone's scared of Islam because its extreme fringe is a growing, tangible, and insidious threat to western life and culture?" manner?
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Do you mean "Islamophobic" in the "everyone's scared of Islam because everyone is ignorant and scared into hatred by Bush and Co." manner, or an "everyone's scared of Islam because its extreme fringe is a growing, tangible, and insidious threat to western life and culture?" manner?
Both actually. I know lots of people have been brainwashed by anti Islam propaganda en press, but I also believe there is a real problem with (especially extreme right) Islam and its clashing with other cultures, nationally and internationally.

Here in Holland there are lots of examples of national clashes, and even though Im not saying its a 100% "their" fault, there is a problem with "their" culture clashing with the native culture of our country.
The fact that "they" are growing in numbers all around the world does implicate that more problems will occur in time.

I dont know if youve read Samuell P Huntingtons "the clash of civilizations and the remaking of world order" but even though he is critisized a lot I do think he made some very solid points in his thesis. And without pointing a finger, a lot of what he predicted is happening as we speak.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
Both actually. I know lots of people have been brainwashed by anti Islam propaganda en press, but I also believe there is a real problem with (especially extreme right) Islam and its clashing with other cultures, nationally and internationally.
Yeah the Islam threat is less than Soviets in the Cold War and the Bush administration has done more far harm to the US and the world than McCarthyism ever did. Without a doubt (and confirmed by Israeli military thinktank) the second Iraq war has caused an increase in global terrorism, not a decrease. Not only did the Bush administration fail but they made the problem worse for everyone - Bush made Reagan's War on Drugs look good.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Id like to see you walk the mean streets of Holland wearing one.
It would take about 5minutes before theres a bunch of Muslims in your face about it.
tell me, is it against the law to walk around with a kaiser blade? (some call is a kaiser blade; i call it a slingblade)
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Yeah the Islam threat is less than Soviets in the Cold War and the Bush administration has done more far harm to the US and the world than McCarthyism ever did. Without a doubt (and confirmed by Israeli military thinktank) the second Iraq war has caused an increase in global terrorism, not a decrease. Not only did the Bush administration fail but they made the problem worse for everyone - Bush made Reagan's War on Drugs look good.
can the same be said for the islamic threat causing global terrorism, because the actions of a few stirred us to take military action (right, wrong, or otherwise)? this parallels the israel/pali conflict, wrt the genesis argument. i guess i see your position as burdening bushco with exclusive responsibility. is that b/c you don't see the islamists to be capable of a moral & tempered response, or are they justified (self-defense). seems you give them a pass, yet not us.

tell me, if the military might were reversed, do you think we'd receive the same treatment, especially given the rhetoric & vows by many in the islamic world?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
when did bush (or anyone in his administration) say saddam had something to do with 9/11? speculations & inquiries, maybe, but never said that saddam was complicit.

did i miss one of our weekly meetings with the fuhrer?
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,721
290
VT
when did bush (or anyone in his administration) say saddam had something to do with 9/11? speculations & inquiries, maybe, but never said that saddam was complicit.
He links them again and again in numerous speeches. Terrorism wasn't a significant problem in Iraq until after the second Iraq war. Bushco's terror war not only failed but made global terrorism worse and ruined the stability in Iraq. Cleaning up this epic failure isn't going to be easy.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
when did bush (or anyone in his administration) say saddam had something to do with 9/11? speculations & inquiries, maybe, but never said that saddam was complicit.

did i miss one of our weekly meetings with the fuhrer?
Are you serious?

edit: To be clear, he on numerous occasions linked Saddam to Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda was obviously linked to 9/11. I don't know how many times removed he needs to be before it no longer qualifies as "something to do with..."
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,549
2,225
Portland, OR
Are you serious?

edit: To be clear, he on numerous occasions linked Saddam to Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda was obviously linked to 9/11. I don't know how many times removed he needs to be before it no longer qualifies as "something to do with..."
Al Qaeda is more linked than Kevin Bacon.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
asserting they are cut from the same cloth does not equal complicity. even bush gets that.

also, manipulative language & "what if" thinking does not equal pointing to a smoking gun.

how can you honestly say bush linked saddam & al-q and all the while he (along with congress' blessing) used the architecture for pre-emptive war?
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
how can you honestly say bush linked saddam & al-q and all the while he (along with congress' blessing) used the architecture for pre-emptive war?
You act like Bush and the American public are intelligent enough to follow that "pre-emptive" is a contradiction with "retaliatory." In all seriousness, the logic (and I cringe to call it that) used by Bush was:
- Al Qaeda struck
- Saddam is connected to Al Qaeda
- Saddam has the potential to strike or to facilitate further Al Qaeda offensives
- We need to strike Saddam before he strikes us

There is no question that Bush linked Saddam to Al Qaeda. There are numerous numerous examples in '03 and '04. The only question is how firmly he implied that Saddam was ACTIVE in 9/11. This was certainly never stated, but you're fooling yourself to think that Bushco didn't hope Americans would make that inference.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
addenda in bold
In all seriousness, the logic (and I cringe to call it that) used by Bush was:
- Al Qaeda struck yet again, and it's now time to take them seriously
- Saddam is connected to Al Qaeda more or less ideologically
- Saddam has the potential to strike or to facilitate further Al Qaeda offensives and has demonstrated that previously (cf halabja)
- We need to strike Saddam before he strikes us, or to claim full rights to enforce ignored u.n. resolutions and the 1998 iraq liberation act
ohio said:
There is no question that Bush linked Saddam to Al Qaeda. There are numerous numerous examples in '03 and '04. The only question is how firmly he implied that Saddam was ACTIVE in 9/11. This was certainly never stated, but you're fooling yourself to think that Bushco didn't hope Americans would make that inference.
of course they (we?) did. how else you gonna sell the wmd argument? it's not so much we didn't want them to have them, but there was "reason" to expect they would be proliferated.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Ow and you can say Bush never directly linked Saddam to 9/11.
In fact he linked a whole damn region to 9/11 and by doing that he upset the whole friggin world except for a couple Yanks who apperantly still have their heads up their asses judging by your posts.
No offense offcourse.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
head up asses -vs- head in sand. what's the difference, really?
I dont have my head in the sand, Ill quote myself cause I think you probably missed this part.

I know lots of people have been brainwashed by anti Islam propaganda en press, but I also believe there is a real problem with (especially extreme right) Islam and its clashing with other cultures, nationally and internationally.

Here in Holland there are lots of examples of national clashes, and even though Im not saying its a 100% "their" fault, there is a problem with "their" culture clashing with the native culture of our country.
The fact that "they" are growing in numbers all around the world does implicate that more problems will occur in time.
So here I am with my head above the sand, but yours is still where the sun dont shine.
Im not in any way saying we should deny the problems that a uncivilized civilization (compared to our all holy western standards) spreading around the world brings.
Im just saying we should stay as realistic as possible and not fall for the propaganda that is thrown at us so easilybecause t will only make matters worse.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Im not in any way saying we should deny the problems that a uncivilized civilization (compared to our all holy western standards) spreading around the world brings.
Im just saying we should stay as realistic as possible and not fall for the propaganda that is thrown at us so easilybecause t will only make matters worse.
while i don't suggest taking cues from geert wilders, do something the rest of the world recognizes as firm, appropriate, immediate, and fair. to date, i read stories daily on the overtaking of europe, all the while politicians are convinced there's a political solution to the exclusion of all else.

and while i don't get most of my information from blogs - i prefer standard news outlets - i recommend reading http://www.brusselsjournal.com/ from time to time.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
while i don't suggest taking cues from geert wilders, do something the rest of the world recognizes as firm, appropriate, immediate, and fair. to date, i read stories daily on the overtaking of europe, all the while politicians are convinced there's a political solution to the exclusion of all else.

and while i don't get most of my information from blogs - i prefer standard news outlets - i recommend reading http://www.brusselsjournal.com/ from time to time.
Thx!!!

Two weeks ago, in an attempt to explain Europe’s enthusiasm for Mr. Obama, the left wing German weekly Der Spiegel pointed out that the Illinois senator is the most “European” of all the candidates in the U.S. presidential race. “Many in Europe would like nothing more than a ‘European’ America […] Obama personifies Europe’s hopes for a modern America: black, socially minded and gentle,” the German magazine wrote. As if Europe is black, socially minded and gentle…
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
while i don't suggest taking cues from geert wilders, do something the rest of the world recognizes as firm, appropriate, immediate, and fair. to date, i read stories daily on the overtaking of europe, all the while politicians are convinced there's a political solution to the exclusion of all else.

and while i don't get most of my information from blogs - i prefer standard news outlets - i recommend reading http://www.brusselsjournal.com/ from time to time.
Then we can definitly shake hands, Im all for taking a stand against Islamification but the way of the sword (to speak in their terms) will reach the exact opposite and should imo only be used as a final resort. I dont think we have reached that point, yet.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,890
4
Hypernormality
They are essentially screwed. I would suggest that the pretence that their lives are not run by market forces can only be maintained and supported by extremists and local populations who are quite far removed from the day to day running of 'big' commerce and capitalism.

Capitalism isn't an ideology, it's an evolution of needs. You can't 'fight' it in the long term. (Maybe it can be guided, but that's another thread).

These people just need the opportunity to have more stuff. You should have invaded with Walmart and banks rather than guns and tanks, it would have been way more successful.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,060
62
chez moi
These people just need the opportunity to have more stuff. You should have invaded with Walmart and banks rather than guns and tanks, it would have been way more successful.
Imagine if the US had spent half--hell, a quarter or a tenth--of what it's spent on the Iraq war on diplomacy, aid, training, and assistance for people around the world. Would've seemed unthinkable to spend that kind of dough on something so 'idiotic' before the war...and it would have done a lot more to combat extremism without killing so many Americans or Iraqis.

Not to say that I'm against the use of military power, and I think it's quite warranted in cases where you have a defined objective and can apply it correctly--that is viciously, and dare I say ruthlessly, for a minimum amount of time for a maximum amount of effect. I just don't think it's the endgame. It's a supplement.