[kidwoo]

This makes a lot of sense considering the outrage I remember after that japanese girl died at a dh race at big bear.

Oh that's right.........no one cared. And then big bear cared once they got sued by the guy who hit the rebar and was paralyzed.

Ain't nobody holdin' no gun to nobody's head to flip that thing.

 

[demo 9]

As much as some of this stuff is full retard big, I have to say that I think its part of evolution. There will probably be bad injuries or deaths in the future, hopefully not, but its part of evolution. Anybody else remember when flipping a dirtbike was considered deadly, now its just part of every other single trick you have to do in an amateur freestyle competition.

 

[wydopen]

meh..

they have been building huge wood features for contests for years..

(circa 2005) guess the only difference is people wernt doing flips off em back then...i remember bearclaw 3'd off the little one to the right and that was a big deal back then

 

[William42]

Man you guys really took my concern for Cam's (and anybody else bat**** crazy enough to hit/trick that thing) safety and ran with it. My original point was directed at him, not redbull. I'm not suggesting redbull bears responsibility for this, merely that the sport is progressing to the point where I worry somebody is going to die, whether from a mistake such as misjudging a trick (such as Soderstrum at crankworx) to equipment failure or even just a gust of wind.

 

[jonKranked]

Man you guys really took my concern for Cam's (and anybody else bat**** crazy enough to hit/trick that thing) safety and ran with it. My original point was directed at him, not redbull. I'm not suggesting redbull bears responsibility for this, merely that the sport is progressing to the point where I worry somebody is going to die, whether from a mistake such as misjudging a trick (such as Soderstrum at crankworx) to equipment failure or even just a gust of wind.

awwww you should give cam a hug for good luck before he drops in

 

[bizutch]

...

Ain't nobody holdin' no gun to nobody's head to flip that thing.

Exactly. Let's not forget that this is a mentality for these riders as well. If these contests didn't exist or the videos, most of them would still be somewhere trying something most consider bat shlt crazy.

It's in their DNA. Most all of us have hit a slip and slide. And most all of us know a guy who took slip and slide to whole other level. The media bumped into the people with the mentality. They didn't create it.

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

I agree that no one is being forced to do anything and that every person has to accept responsibility for their actions. I'm not calling out red bull either, I just think this is an interesting situation.

That said, these athletes are in a position (perceived or real) where they have to hit these features in order to maintain their sponsorship/income/status. From an ethical standpoint, this is a form of coercion that is not accepted in some other fields. I think the critical difference is that these features are being built by people who have no intention of riding them in competition (if at all). If this was all natural terrain with hits designed only by riders for riders, then the athletes would have more control over what they were riding and the associated risks.

 

[jonKranked]

I agree that no one is being forced to do anything and that every person has to accept responsibility for their actions. I'm not calling out red bull either, I just think this is an interesting situation.

That said, these athletes are in a position (perceived or real) where they have to hit these features in order to maintain their sponsorship/income/status. From an ethical standpoint, this is a form of coercion that is not accepted in some other fields. I think the critical difference is that these features are being built by people who have no intention of riding them in competition (if at all). If this was all natural terrain with hits designed only by riders for riders, then the athletes would have more control over what they were riding and the associated risks.

but these features are being built by riders. for better or worse, bender is one of the head builders. also, bear in mind the competitors do have a few days to help fine tune things and built their own lines. you make it seem like it's red bull's marketing division making the stunts.

 

[jackalope]

but these features are being built by riders. for better or worse, bender is one of the head builders. also, bear in mind the competitors do have a few days to help fine tune things and built their own lines. you make it seem like it's red bull's marketing division making the stunts.

So when you say "being built by riders", are said riders actually hitting this stuff and/or have experience (successfully) riding features of similar magnitude? I guess I'm not fully sold on Bender being a head builder means it's legit. Having said that, I know next to nothing about how these things are designed and sus'd out, so if Zink, McCaul, Bas, and others are involved, then I guess they're fully aware of what they're getting into.

EDIT - a little background; me and Sub have exeprience with a local guy who would build some gonzo sh!t, but never hit anything bigger than a loading dock (if even that). While some of the stuff was OK, a lot of the bigger features were laughably stupid. Plus, our own newer freedom riding lines are much better designed than our older stuff, mainly because we actually rode everything and tweaked things accordingly.

 

[jonKranked]

So when you say "being built by riders", are said riders actually hitting this stuff and/or have experience (successfully) riding features of similar magnitude?

lance armstrong is a builder too, and providing PED's to compete with red bull

 

[jackalope]

I think Lance is the new spokesman for Powerthirst

 

[jonKranked]

on the next ridge over is a competing event... the Brawndo Bro-Down

 

[OGRipper]

These guys are not being coerced to ride Rampage. They are being enabled.

Sure there are lots of incentives and rewards for doing well, and sure Redbull has a profit motive at the core of the whole thing, and sure there is pressure to excel, particularly for those that don't do a lot of other stuff. But the riders aren't forced into anything.

People have been saying the same stuff about imminent death for years. Limits will continue to be pushed, regardless.

 

[Tomasz]

"Coercion" explicitly requires violence, the threat of violence, or fraud. Violence is what separates coercion from persuasion. Any modern day re-definition of coercion to include things which people do in order to maintain their status, income, etc, is nothing other than an attempt to co opt a word with negative implication in order to slander an 'objectionable' activity.

The mere fact that even we are debating whether or not it's moral for people to ride Rampage is ridiculous to me. These people are handsomely compensated (in $ and status) and they have to worked extremely hard to get where they are. Would they prefer to have that compensation without having to ride dangerous stuff? Of course some of them would. Should there be limits on what they can build? That's not really for me - or any of us - to decide. The riders decide that. If there's something which is too risky, they need the backbone to get together and demand it be removed. Auto racing (which is dramatically more dangerous than Rampage) does this all of the time - the racers demand a track be removed, changed, etc. Sometimes they boycott an entire race.

 

[blindboxx2334]

The mere fact that even we are debating whether or not it's moral for people to ride Rampage is ridiculous to me.

atleast they stopped talking about DLC

although i must say, this argument is almost as bad.

 

[Tmeyer]

Zink's expecting a baby this month? Just heard that in the video... That might change things a bit for me but he seems even more motivated by it.

 

[4130biker]

So when you say "being built by riders", are said riders actually hitting this stuff and/or have experience (successfully) riding features of similar magnitude? I guess I'm not fully sold on Bender being a head builder means it's legit. Having said that, I know next to nothing about how these things are designed and sus'd out, so if Zink, McCaul, Bas, and others are involved, then I guess they're fully aware of what they're getting into.

EDIT - a little background; me and Sub have exeprience with a local guy who would build some gonzo sh!t, but never hit anything bigger than a loading dock (if even that). While some of the stuff was OK, a lot of the bigger features were laughably stupid. Plus, our own newer freedom riding lines are much better designed than our older stuff, mainly because we actually rode everything and tweaked things accordingly.

Just because a builder won't or can't ride something doesn't detract from the fact that it's built by a rider with lots of experience in this terrain. I'm fairly certain I've seen Digger and others build whacko lines for people like Wade Simmons, without intentions of hitting it themselves. Not every great rider is a builder, and not every great builder is at the forefront of riding. I think guys like Berrecloth are a very small minority. I don't see anything wrong with Bender being in charge; in fact, I think it's great!

PS- speaking of builders at the forefront of riding, what ever happened to Ben Boyko. That guy was taking over, and then disappeared!

 

[gemini2k]

PS- speaking of builders at the forefront of riding, what ever happened to Ben Boyko. That guy was taking over, and then disappeared!

Probably knocked it up.

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

"Coercion" explicitly requires violence, the threat of violence, or fraud. Violence is what separates coercion from persuasion.

This is not true in numerous modern uses of the word. Even the older definitions include psychological means of coercion. In many some circles, for example medicine, it implies an undue level of influence over the actions of someone in an inferior position of power.

I'm not trying to have a semantics debate, or to play dictionary. I'm not boo hooing for the poor riders either. I know they want to be there and lots of folks would gladly fill their shoes. I just think that if the riders actually competing in the comp want to build something nuts that is different from someone not in the comp, who presumably has some vested interest in maximizing the spectacle of Rampage, building the moves. If you disagree that's cool too.

Mostly I hope it's as fun to watch as last year and that everyone rides away clean.

 

[jackalope]

Just because a builder won't or can't ride something doesn't detract from the fact that it's built by a rider with lots of experience in this terrain. I'm fairly certain I've seen Digger and others build whacko lines for people like Wade Simmons, without intentions of hitting it themselves. Not every great rider is a builder, and not every great builder is at the forefront of riding. I think guys like Berrecloth are a very small minority. I don't see anything wrong with Bender being in charge; in fact, I think it's great!

Fair enough, although I still maintain it helps *a lot* to have experience actually riding the type of features you're building, especially the really retardedly big stuff. And guys like Simmons could make almost anything look rad - probably even some of the super jank that I've slapped together in the past. Behold...

 

[William42]

Edit: its not coercion. These guys are there because they are competitive with eachother and because they want to push the sport further and gnarlier then its ever gone. I just worry that with the size of some of this stuff, its getting into pretty serious "you will die if you **** up"

I know its cool to hate bender, but the dude can ride, and build. He went through his huck phase. He's at every rampage and all the riders are stoked, because he knows how to build lines. He built king kong, which is pretty famous for being bat**** crazy but well built. The dude knows what he's doing these days.

 

[blindboxx2334]

So why is it cool to hate on him? He should feel right at home at rampage.

 

[William42]

So why is it cool to hate on him? He should feel right at home at rampage.

hell if I know, but people on the internet talk sh1t about him all the time.

 

[norbar]

This thread went full retard. If Zink thinks he can do it why are we to judge him? I don't he is persuaded by anything else but doing something amazing on the biggest freeride event of the year. It's not the first time someone wants to do something crazy. It baffles me how RM can hype the TT Isle of Man race and at the same time be so concerned for Zink here. Take a chill pill and enjoy the show.

 

[tabletop84]

Why don't we go back to good old fashioned gear queerness. Apart from the wheelsize-debate (hey nobody's talked about 650b in this thread) I wonder why Marzocchi still refuses to send their riders the latest stuff at the top event of the season (from a marketing stanpoint). Are they as lazy as in recent years or not existent (marketing wise) although they promised everything will get better. Or is it because they don't trust their lightened stuff yet as there were 3 or 4 broken 888 in 2010?

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Same question here. Although Suding managed to snap his headtube instead of the new Zokes...
But seriously: Why no new parts from them for rampage?

Is the 380 a pure "race fork"?

 

[tabletop84]

Well it's nothing new that Mz didn't send their most exposed riders out of wc racing the latest stuff. I remeber Lacondeguy riding a lyric, ccdb and now a stoy which he probably got from yt with the frame. Didn't expect that Lorenzo already got the 380.

Might be that they are cautios because the 380 might be a little weaker than the 888 but I think the main reason is that they just suck at marketing their products in time. On the other hand Yt could have sent him a tues with the latest stuff:

But speaking of being cautios: I think I didn't see the blackbox-damper on the forks of zink and strait too.

 

[blindboxx2334]

I wonder why Marzocchi still refuses to send their riders the latest stuff at the top event of the season (from a marketing stanpoint). Are they as lazy as in recent years or not existent (marketing wise) although they promised everything will get better.

interesting.. didnt know that!

 

[Mo(n)arch]

But speaking of being cautios: I think I didn't see the blackbox-damper on the forks of zink and strait too.

They are still riding the R2C2 units. But it's different not giving them proto units which won't be available at the end of the year for everyone then not giving your best freeriders your new fork and shock, which WILL be available in 2014.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

The SRAM boys ARE on the new Boxxers:

Semenuk:

Zink:

Edit:

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Things go full retard these days:

 

[mattmatt86]

Can we please start talking about how much that Hyper looks like a Session...

 

[gemini2k]

The SRAM boys ARE on the new Boxxers:

Do the new ones still suck? Or is this the year they finally make a real DH fork?

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Do the new ones still suck? Or is this the year they finally make a real DH fork?

Now they have the charger damper, so it is the bees knees!

 

[jonKranked]

Can we please start talking about how much that Hyper looks like a Session...

they should change the name from hyper to herper.

 

[kidwoo]

they should change the name from hyper to herper.

If herper is the company, is the model the derper?

I'd love to ride a herper derper.

 

[jonKranked]

If herper is the company, is the model the derper?

I'd love to ride a herper derper.

naturally. and they won't go "hucking", they'll go "derping"

 

[kidwoo]

Dead sailors are now flerpers.

You hearder it here firster.

 

[jonKranked]

Dead sailors are now flerpers.

You hearder it here firster.

whips --> wherps

 

[Tomasz]

Def look like Charger dampers.

And would buy a Herp Derp 100%