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Montana rider

Monkey
Mar 14, 2005
677
594
Hipster bread #2
I'd like to see the inside re: air pockets, but I'd hit it.

Looks like your next step to perfection is to work on scoring.

I do a cross like this (usually without the diagonal) which supposedly allows the yeast / bread to expand more in the first few minutes of baking when things are still "hot and moist"

1589947375701.png



 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
I'd like to see the inside re: air pockets, but I'd hit it.

Looks like your next step to perfection is to work on scoring.

I do a cross like this (usually without the diagonal) which supposedly allows the yeast / bread to expand more in the first few minutes of baking when things are still "hot and moist"

View attachment 145343


OK mister bread nerd, how are these air pockets looking? It tastes great and the texture is just right, too. :D

I suspect the optimal scoring pattern is subject similar debates such as as the preferred method of asspresso preparation or comparison of audio cables' fidelity. :D

 

Montana rider

Monkey
Mar 14, 2005
677
594
I disagree with the Shtles-one, those pockets of air look NICE.

BUT my sourdough loaves are 1/3rd whole wheat and 2/3rds white wheat flour (or more likely 25/75 when you consider the fact that the starter is all white wheat) so my bread is always a little dense.

I used to do 50/50 and I should just try 100% white some day...

I like your done-ness of your crust particularly.

I had been just baking my in a closed dutch oven for 20 minutes at 475 (usual loaf is ~ 800 grams) for the last 15 years (!!) or so which made for a really moist loaf -- I like my bread toasted -- but have recently started to bake for another 10 minutes uncovered to get a similarly nice crust texture.

Since my kids don't usually eat much of the crust, I may as well bake it how I like it.

In regards to scoring, you're completely right.

And the only reason I mentioned it was it looked to me like there was a "secondary" crust which may have prevented it from rising more.

I've never found a single cut to be as effective as two, but YMMV

1589994023477.png
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
We like our bread a bit on the dense side, too; big air holes swallow whatever you try to spread on them, and too fluffy bread is not really good for frying either. I'd try a mix with rye flour but one cannot be very picky regarding flour choices there days, I am lucky when I get my hands on a bag of unbleached wheat.
I bake in a covered pot at 450F for 30 minutes, then another 20 without cover, then turn off heat and let sit in the oven for another 5 minutes; sitting on a pizza stone on the bottom. I let the loaf cool on a rack under a cloth for ~1hr, then it is ready to eat.
 

SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
50,868
4,211
In a van.... down by the river
Yeah - I prefer more along the lines of baguette/ciabatta type stuff, myself. Chewy crust with an airy crumb. I should have take a photo of my last batch of ciabatta cut open. It was really nice.

Also agree that there's nothing wrong with a dense loaf, and expected, esp if you're doing WW or some other tasty non-white flour. :thumb:
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
I disagree with the Shtles-one, those pockets of air look NICE.

BUT my sourdough loaves are 1/3rd whole wheat and 2/3rds white wheat flour (or more likely 25/75 when you consider the fact that the starter is all white wheat) so my bread is always a little dense.

I used to do 50/50 and I should just try 100% white some day...

I like your done-ness of your crust particularly.

I had been just baking my in a closed dutch oven for 20 minutes at 475 (usual loaf is ~ 800 grams) for the last 15 years (!!) or so which made for a really moist loaf -- I like my bread toasted -- but have recently started to bake for another 10 minutes uncovered to get a similarly nice crust texture.

Since my kids don't usually eat much of the crust, I may as well bake it how I like it.

In regards to scoring, you're completely right.

And the only reason I mentioned it was it looked to me like there was a "secondary" crust which may have prevented it from rising more.

I've never found a single cut to be as effective as two, but YMMV

View attachment 145364
How about this one?

 

Montana rider

Monkey
Mar 14, 2005
677
594
How about this one?

Winner, winner chicken dinner!

I'm not convinced the "tiny slits" have much function outside ornamentation as the two BIG cuts seem to do all the work (on a round loaf.)

I suspect if you were making long and narrow more cylindrical loaves the single cut would be fine.

I goofed up on my last batch.

It was warmer in the house being summer and all and I lost track of time / got busy with work and I over proofedn and the last 2 of 3 loaves failed to rise to the occasion / expectations.

I guess I should start to do my final rise in the cooler garage and/or not wait so long to fire.

I wish we had smellovision nonetheless as that looks perfect despite your preference for density...
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Winner, winner chicken dinner!

I'm not convinced the "tiny slits" have much function outside ornamentation as the two BIG cuts seem to do all the work (on a round loaf.)

I suspect if you were making long and narrow more cylindrical loaves the single cut would be fine.

I goofed up on my last batch.

It was warmer in the house being summer and all and I lost track of time / got busy with work and I over proofedn and the last 2 of 3 loaves failed to rise to the occasion / expectations.

I guess I should start to do my final rise in the cooler garage and/or not wait so long to fire.

I wish we had smellovision nonetheless as that looks perfect despite your preference for density...
Thank you Alfie! I got lucky on this one, nice fluffy crumb with small but many air pockets, just the right saltiness, nice crust. I adjusted my dough mix a little, my current go to plan is 50+g starter / 330g water / 500g all-purpose flour, tea spoon of salt. When my dough was wetter, I could never get it out of the proofing basket without sticking. Btw. a small straight razors works great for scoring. I knew this one would be good based on the ease of scoring alone.

I am going to claim success when I can bake three like that in a row. :D
 

Montana rider

Monkey
Mar 14, 2005
677
594
When my dough was wetter, I could never get it out of the proofing basket without sticking.
I've never had any luck with proofing baskets either I probably should flour them more.

I am trying to get more comfortable with wet sticky dough... But I like taller loaves and the wetter doughs tend to spread more

So I proof in Pyrex pie plates with a large piece of parchment paper underneath that I use to transfer the dough to Dutch oven and to remove after baking.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
I've never had any luck with proofing baskets either I probably should flour them more.

I am trying to get more comfortable with wet sticky dough... But I like taller loaves and the wetter doughs tend to spread more

So I proof in Pyrex pie plates with a large piece of parchment paper underneath that I use to transfer the dough to Dutch oven and to remove after baking.
I proof in a basket with cloth, then bake in a Pyrex pot.

 
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SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
50,868
4,211
In a van.... down by the river
Yeah - that's going to be my standard of success for the ciabatti as well... 3 batches in a row... winner. :D
Two for two...

1590703016655.png

<snip>
I am trying to get more comfortable with wet sticky dough... But I like taller loaves and the wetter doughs tend to spread more
Try this ciabatta recipe - it'll get you comfy with wet/sticky dough: https://breadtopia.com/sourdough-ciabatta/

WARNING: you'll end up with a more airy crumb than you like. :D
 

Montana rider

Monkey
Mar 14, 2005
677
594
Two for two...

View attachment 145768

Try this ciabatta recipe - it'll get you comfy with wet/sticky dough: https://breadtopia.com/sourdough-ciabatta/

WARNING: you'll end up with a more airy crumb than you like. :D
ETA: We need to see those air pockets before we can effectively judge your prowess...

We actually LOVE ciabatta in our house, so I'll have to check it out -- thanks!

>100% hydration confuses me -- I leave my sourdough starter much wetter than most of the online videos present (for that same reason relaxing the glutens) so I shouldn't have as far to go...

  • Build a 100% hydration (or higher) sourdough starter over a couple of days until it is more than 550g in weight, about 4 1/2 cups volume, active and floating.
  • There are numerous, equally effective ways to get this amount of active starter. I fed my starter and refrigerated it at about 2 cups in volume. On baking day, I put 220g of starter in a large bowl, fed it 150g of all-purpose flour and 180g of water. In volume, this is approximately 1 cup starter, 1 cup flour and 3/4 cup water. Several hours later, it was over four cups in volume and it floated.
 
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SkaredShtles

I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!
Sep 21, 2003
50,868
4,211
In a van.... down by the river
We actually LOVE ciabatta in our house, so I'll have to check it out...

But >100% hydration confuses me -- but I leave my sourdough starter much wetter than most of the online videos present (for that same reason relaxing the glutens) so I shouldn't have as far to go...

  • Build a 100% hydration (or higher) sourdough starter over a couple of days until it is more than 550g in weight, about 4 1/2 cups volume, active and floating.
  • There are numerous, equally effective ways to get this amount of active starter. I fed my starter and refrigerated it at about 2 cups in volume. On baking day, I put 220g of starter in a large bowl, fed it 150g of all-purpose flour and 180g of water. In volume, this is approximately 1 cup starter, 1 cup flour and 3/4 cup water. Several hours later, it was over four cups in volume and it floated.


At first glance
Yeah - definitely don't over-think it. If you've got an active starter, I'd just go for it.