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boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,879
6,177
Yakistan
And the existence of that thing is proof that so did dirtjumping
Lol yah we know this. DJ died like a decade ago when the industry killed little wheels.

So Oscar builds hisself a ti dj on 27.5 wheels and I bet it rides purty nice... I'll let him know the Kidwoo has no fucts to give for them wagon wheelz.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,648
5,562
UK
Little wheels are still readily available and so are off the shelf complete little wheel DJ bikes, DJ specific little wheel frames, forks, tyres and wheelsets.
DJ just kinda dwindled out of popularity but Pump tracks kept the niche market for the bike's fairly healthy.
I'd blame the scene for the demise more than the industry on this one.
DJ was never a big thing here due to our climate and earth but in the South of England where the climate and earth are both way more suitable for DJ trails the DJ scene is still fairly healthy.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,480
422
The U.K. and US dirt jump scenes were quite different I think.


U.K.= 24” wheels, steel frames. Lots of focus on “trail boss” style, boosting and style being more important than tricks. Intricate trails with multiple lines, transfers and options.
Key examples: Jimmy Pratt, Jim Davage, Olly Wilkins, Steve geall

US= 26” wheels, big tricks. Competition style jumps, very photo friendly.
key examples: John Cowan, John Jesme, cammcaul

things definitely changed to be more commercial friendly in the U.K., with bigger trick lines emerging and riders having bigger bags of tricks.

it certainly wasn’t as cut and dry as I’m making out, but there was certainly a divide. In my humble
the backflip was the bc/ad moment for dirt jumping. After the flip, tricks had to get bigger and more complex to compete. Jumps had to get bigger, lines got more straight forward, coverage became less relatable for groms and bikes became increasingly expensive and inaccessible.

DJ kind of went the opposite direction of dh, it was born in fun and counter competitive expression, then through the nature of being relatively easy to put on as an event and show in media it became circus it was at its highest, with arena tours and display shows. A victim of its own success really.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
The U.K. and US dirt jump scenes were quite different I think.


U.K.= 24” wheels, steel frames. Lots of focus on “trail boss” style, boosting and style being more important than tricks. Intricate trails with multiple lines, transfers and options.
Key examples: Jimmy Pratt, Jim Davage, Olly Wilkins, Steve geall

US= 26” wheels, big tricks. Competition style jumps, very photo friendly.
key examples: John Cowan, John Jesme, cammcaul
You're describing "things I saw on the internet" not reality
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I switched back and forth between 24s and 26s depending on the frame and what I was riding. To me upping the scale was always an avenue where where 26" wheels had a higher ceiling just from speed and stability...what became slopestyle.

But in terms of on the ground, dudes digging on local spots, each place has/had a personality but riding dirtjumps is riding dirtjumps. The base population that made the scene, uk or us was just riding, whether or not someone could do certain tricks.

My gen kind of aged out with back problems. Nowadays coming from mountainbiking people who might otherwise be digging kept getting told that earth based kickouts and taking a shit in the air next to your endurpo bike, is all you need to do to be cool. So everyone just rides a-line and never builds anything worth a damn






Nathan Rennie and Greg Minnaar needed bikes that fit them. The rest of us suffered

 
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trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,480
422
There’s no argument that there was significant overlap, I was going with broad brush strokes.

Brooklyn,Tonic, USB, nemesis project (lol) were all building 24” specific bikes in the US, and there was a significant movement of smaller wheels and tighter trails riders. But, it can’t be denied that the real driver behind bigger, better, backflippier, was the US riding scene and the push to make DJ the most spectator friendly arm of bike riding.

to add further to my steaming platter of hot takes today, I think the first dj bike that really got it right on a relatively accessible level was the black market, and that was definitely a “trail boss” inspired ride…and 26” wheels. DMR and 24Seven managed to rule the U.K. scene for years and then got their asses handed to them by some guy in California on his first attempt at making a bike.

further talking point, would Deity be the success they are now without those white cranks on Carter Hollands MOB?

I get why Gary does this. Being a contrarian on the internet is great fun.

All this to say, a 27.5 ti dj bike is fucking cool and probably way more fun for any ride under a few miles than any purpose built commuter bike. Is Oscar likely to be doing 720s or double backs? No, so what the fuck does it matter if the back end is .5” longer?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
All this to say, a 27.5 ti dj bike is fucking cool and probably way more fun for any ride under a few miles than any purpose built commuter bike. Is Oscar likely to be doing 720s or double backs? No, so what the fuck does it matter if the back end is .5” longer?
You ever taco a rim or roll a tire off landing funny or in a hard turn?

That's why bigger wheels for dirtjumping is stupid.
 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,648
5,562
UK
in terms of on the ground, dudes digging on local spots, each place has/had a personality but riding dirtjumps is riding dirtjumps. The base population that made the scene, uk or us was just riding, whether or not someone could do certain tricks.
totally... The one local DJ spot we have is maintained by guys in their 40s who mainly ride 20" but they're mostly either dad's or unkles and encourage the kids/teens who all ride 26" DJ bikes. The place evolves and changes each year keeping it fresh and each rider has their own style.

I get why Gary does this.
I'm just moar honest than most folk and not afraid to speak my mind.
I'm EXACTLY the same IRL
 

vivisectxi

Monkey
Jan 14, 2021
473
578
yeast van
so pretty much as expected? regular horst with pull link actuated shock. unless there's something funky going on with the main pivot? may be an additional link buried in there...

 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
549
358
What’s that link down the bottom? The surprise ejector mechanism if you get a bb strike?
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,936
24,506
media blackout
so pretty much as expected? regular horst with pull link actuated shock. unless there's something funky going on with the main pivot? may be an additional link buried in there...

i see someone's been on vital.

doubt any crazy extra links, the secrecy was probably more around the shock itself.
 

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,879
6,177
Yakistan
You ever taco a rim or roll a tire off landing funny or in a hard turn?

That's why bigger wheels for dirtjumping is stupid.
Your words appear true but there's beef cake wheels that can take the abuse a DJ dishes out. Oscar is not a small guy and he's been ditching bikes in mid-air since you was still riding in the back of your cousins chevy nova, smoking cigs and cat calling the ladies on the board walk.

Friggin calling wheels stupid is... stupid. Maybe if the rims said Stans Arch EX we could find agreement.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
he's been ditching bikes in mid-air since you was still riding in the back of your cousins chevy nova, smoking cigs and cat calling the ladies on the board walk.
He's only been riding since this morning?



My dirtjump wheels were beefy and heavy enough as 26s. To get even close to the same strength with a bigger diameter lever (IE wheel radius) the things need to be tanks...which then affects handling.

I spent so many years watching people with pinner little shit bend their wheels because they insisted on lightweight tossable bikes, I know what I'm talking about. And I regularly rode jumps way bigger than what most people consider 'dirtjumping' with a hell of a lot more g forces on transitions and turns. Experience forms my opinions, not just supposition.

this lip is about 10ft tall and this is the warmup, screwin around jump

I watched two people fold wheels on it.
 
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boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
7,879
6,177
Yakistan
He's only been riding since this morning?



My dirtjump wheels were beefy and heavy enough as 26s. To get even close to the same strength with a bigger diameter lever (IE wheel radius) the things need to be tanks...which then affects handling.

I spent so many years watching people with pinner little shit bend their wheels because they insisted on lightweight tossable bikes, I know what I'm talking about. And I regularly rode jumps way bigger than what most people consider 'dirtjumping' with a hell of a lot more g forces on transitions and turns. Experience forms my opinions, not just supposition.
Oscar raced single A pro back in the early 90s and has been welding BMX and DJ frames for literally decades. He worked at BOSS even, welding cranksets when he was a nobody. The dirt jumps Oscar was building 20 years ago here in Yakima had many 20ft and a 30ft double that only he was sending.

I don't doubt your cred. Your not the only one who knows their shit.

I'm sure that big wheeled DJ shines in certain elements and has drawbacks in others. Considering who built it, I bet it rodes pretty nice for airing jumps and shredding the pumptrack.

At leaat we know the big wheels are good for running over kids who don't have a clue...

 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Oscar raced single A pro back in the early 90s
I'm older and was likely racing bmx before him :rofl:

1982 (me in second)

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Big wheels flex more than smaller wheels. And if they don't flex it's because they're heavy. And sometimes that flex leads to authentic tacos. There's no opinion in that. It's physics

I don't believe in gods and saints. aaron gwinn rides fast but good god have you heard the shit in that dude's brain...

That instagram account is private. I want to see people getting run over.
 

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Feb 21, 2020
832
1,161
SoCo Western Slope
Al-oo-minium, external routing, decent geo. Very Frameworksy, minus the vert seat tube.

Not sure about the lack of brace on the seat stays, but at least the link looks beefy. And still trunnion.
Probably unrideable with high squats and rises due to horse link.

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