[Westy]

Yeah I'm like one of two people who still finds single pivots interesting, but this frame is...questionable. That seat tube. The leverage curve. meep.

Single pivots will always have a laundry list of shortcomings. A lot of those can be mitigated through additional linkages, however the old school Orange/Santa Cruz bullet designs just literally have every possible shortcoming wrapped up into a tidy little package. They had the advantage of simplicity when people didn't know how to properly design or fabricate a full suspension, but it makes no sense today unless you are literally trying to build a $300 Marino.

 

[6thElement]

Lauf Elja - Lauf Cycles - gravel bikes, mountain bikes and road bikes

We push boundaries to make you the best bikes on the planet! At a price nobody competes with. While giving you a 30 day test ride to make sure it's perfect for you.

www.laufcycles.com

Lauf cycles still exists. In case you were one of three people who needed a 2.8-3" tire 29er.

I'd love one of their Siegla's with a boingy fork. But I don't want any of that.

 

[Jm_]

Lauf Elja - Lauf Cycles - gravel bikes, mountain bikes and road bikes

We push boundaries to make you the best bikes on the planet! At a price nobody competes with. While giving you a 30 day test ride to make sure it's perfect for you.

www.laufcycles.com

Lauf cycles still exists. In case you were one of three people who needed a 2.8-3" tire 29er.

Lauf out loud

 

[Jm_]

Single pivots will always have a laundry list of shortcomings. A lot of those can be mitigated through additional linkages, however the old school Orange/Santa Cruz bullet designs just literally have every possible shortcoming wrapped up into a tidy little package. They had the advantage of simplicity when people didn't know how to properly design or fabricate a full suspension, but it makes no sense today unless you are literally trying to build a $300 Marino.

But that’s perfect for people that have no idea how a bike should ride. The kind that have never touched any of the knobs.

 

[canadmos]

Devinci just launched a new version of the Troy.

The all-new Troy & Troy ST

Today, we’re proud to release the fifth generation of our flagship mountain bike. This Troy is our most advanced aluminum frame ever. It’s built to last, by hand, in Canada. And just like every Devinci mountain bike, it’s guaranteed for life.

www.devinci.com

What I mainly noted:
- Alu frame made in Canada
- Went back to Boost148
- 2 models based on the same frame: 140/130 or 160/150
- Each model available with a single build kit or frame only. Probably a good move these days to limit inventory issues.
- No headset cable routing
- 29 or Mullet
- Long reach
- I would have preferred a shorter ST
- Now with in-frame storage

Hopefully, this is a sign Devinci (and hopefully others) are starting to move away from SuperBoost157.

I like how they are making more and more in Canada again.

And thank God that bike isn't ugly like some recent ones.

 

[trib]

Lauf Elja - Lauf Cycles - gravel bikes, mountain bikes and road bikes

We push boundaries to make you the best bikes on the planet! At a price nobody competes with. While giving you a 30 day test ride to make sure it's perfect for you.

www.laufcycles.com

Lauf cycles still exists. In case you were one of three people who needed a 2.8-3" tire 29er.

cool, they turned a trek diesel in to an xc bike

 

[SuspectDevice]

that Laugh comes with an entry to a gravel race in iceland, ahahaah.
I mean Laugh. I mean Lauff.

 

[Sandwich]

Single pivots will always have a laundry list of shortcomings. A lot of those can be mitigated through additional linkages, however the old school Orange/Santa Cruz bullet designs just literally have every possible shortcoming wrapped up into a tidy little package. They had the advantage of simplicity when people didn't know how to properly design or fabricate a full suspension, but it makes no sense today unless you are literally trying to build a $300 Marino.

You’re not wrong- by the time you’ve fixed everything wrong with a true single pivot, you end up with a Horst link/split pivot/walking beam. I still think they’re neat if done as good as possible, especially if you want light weight.

Anyways- pinkbike sez that Devinci now owns the patent on split pivot, which is interesting.

 

[jonKranked]

my DH bike is a single pivot, it rides great and I haven't died.

 

[jonKranked]

Anyways- pinkbike sez that Devinci now owns the patent on split pivot, which is interesting.

wonder if DW needed to sell it off for capital after trust shit the bed.

 

[HardtailHack]

But that’s perfect for people that have no idea how a bike should ride. The kind that have never touched any of the knobs.

Or for people like me that know any bike with some boing and decent geo will be more capable than they ever will.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

wonder if DW needed to sell it off for capital after trust shit the bed.

Total sursprise there. "Trust me, these forks will sell like bread!"

 

[Sandwich]

wonder if DW needed to sell it off for capital after trust shit the bed.

I'd assume it's more of a rapidly drying source of income. Between conflict with Trek, the freeing of horst link, the reality that it doesn't do THAT much, and an industry that is obsessed with "NEW NEWER NEWNESS" I can't imagine any new companies were interested in licensing split pivot. It's pretty much just salsa and devinici at this point, right? Maybe salsa will be on something else soon (they're blowing out all their MTB)

 

[jonKranked]

I'd assume it's more of a rapidly drying source of income. Between conflict with Trek, the freeing of horst link, the reality that it doesn't do THAT much, and an industry that is obsessed with "NEW NEWER NEWNESS" I can't imagine any new companies were interested in licensing split pivot. It's pretty much just salsa and devinici at this point, right? Maybe salsa will be on something else soon (they're blowing out all their MTB)

honestly i get the sense that DW might be done with the bike industry. can't say that i blame him.

 

[sethimus]

I'd assume it's more of a rapidly drying source of income. Between conflict with Trek, the freeing of horst link, the reality that it doesn't do THAT much, and an industry that is obsessed with "NEW NEWER NEWNESS" I can't imagine any new companies were interested in licensing split pivot. It's pretty much just salsa and devinici at this point, right? Maybe salsa will be on something else soon (they're blowing out all their MTB)

orbea uses it too

 

[slimshady]

orbea uses it too

Obea has its own implementation, just like Trek. BH is the Spanish brand licensing Split Pivot.

 

[Jm_]

Obea has its own implementation, just like Trek. BH is the Spanish brand licensing Split Pivot.

So they are not actually split?

 

[slimshady]

So they are not actually split?

They somehow escape DW's patent. I could go into details, but that'll mean splitting hairs.

 

[jonKranked]

So they are not actually split?

judge ruled that abp doesn't infringe on split pivot. that was like a decade ago. meaning the patents likely only have a couple years left.

 

[Inclag]

You’re not wrong- by the time you’ve fixed everything wrong with a true single pivot, you end up with a Horst link/split pivot/walking beam....


.....or split pivot...

 

[jonKranked]

 

[trib]

View attachment 219089

Nothing like throwing your design to the wind so you can sell some more e-bikes.

 

[Andeh]

I'm certain that what's going on here was a combination of:
1) all ebike motors have pretty awful reliability reputations, with Bosch being the only halfway decent reputation
2) SC (and others) wanted to switch to Bosch to reduce warranty costs plus keep their own brand reputation for reliability up
3) the latest Bosch motor form factor conflicts with good VPP pivot locations. Jimmy from Cascade says that VPP link changes are often a matter of fractions of millimeters
4) the majority of ebike riders are lazy and aren't trying to pump and boost every roller, and just want a "plush" ride.
5) when they did the 3 different V10 prototypes, they tried VPP, 4 bar, and 4bar high pivot. The racers preferred VPP for pumping efficiency for speed.
6) combining all of the above, for the target audience of this bike, there's not really any downsides to going to 4bar

 

[Jm_]

5) when they did the 3 different V10 prototypes, they tried VPP, 4 bar, and 4bar high pivot. The racers preferred VPP for pumping efficiency for speed.

wut? Those are all the same thing.

 

[rideit]

1) all ebike motors have pretty awful reliability reputations, with Bosch being the only halfway decent reputation

Interestingly, the proprietary Rocky Mountain Dyname 4 motors are freakin’ bomber, even with the most power. Very low warranty/repair percentages.

 

[jonKranked]

I'm certain that what's going on here was a combination of:
1) all ebike motors have pretty awful reliability reputations, with Bosch being the only halfway decent reputation
2) SC (and others) wanted to switch to Bosch to reduce warranty costs plus keep their own brand reputation for reliability up
3) the latest Bosch motor form factor conflicts with good VPP pivot locations. Jimmy from Cascade says that VPP link changes are often a matter of fractions of millimeters
4) the majority of ebike riders are lazy and aren't trying to pump and boost every roller, and just want a "plush" ride.
5) when they did the 3 different V10 prototypes, they tried VPP, 4 bar, and 4bar high pivot. The racers preferred VPP for pumping efficiency for speed.
6) combining all of the above, for the target audience of this bike, there's not really any downsides to going to 4bar

they're not the only ones that had to use a different suspension layout to account for a motor (yeti comes to mind first)

 

[sethimus]

discuss

 

[jonKranked]

looks like something that could only be enjoyed by those that also love feces pr0n

 

[canadmos]

View attachment 219089

Whats that, the new Butcher or Nickel?

 

[rideit]

View attachment 219269

discuss

I have mixte feelings about this.

 

[Andeh]

Tell me that ebike is targeted at Euro commuters who think they need an eMTB but will never take it more offroad than a gravel path without actually saying it. (NX shifting, ABS, ultra low standover, really high stack, weird skinny Fox fork)

 

[canadmos]

Tell me that ebike is targeted at Euro commuters who think they need an eMTB but will never take it more offroad than a gravel path without actually saying it. (NX shifting, ABS, ultra low standover, really high stack, weird skinny Fox fork)

Why'd I google Fox AWL...

FOX AWL - Learn More

With racing in its DNA and good times in its blood, FOX has enjoyed 50 years of going fast and taking chances. From twisting throttles to spinning pedals, we love all things on wheels. Buy your official FOX Factory suspension, apparel and accessories. Free delivery on orders above $99.

ridefox.com

 

[slimshady]

What the fuck is an e-suv???

 

[trib]

What the fuck is an e-suv???

Same thing people use SUV cars for. Carrying kids and picking up stuff at the farmers market.

 

[jonKranked]

it's got a HEAVY DUTY 15mm AXLE BRO FUCK YEA

 

[trib]

it's got a HEAVY DUTY 15mm AXLE BRO FUCK YEA

At least it’s not an e-bike specific 17.5mm

 

[jonKranked]

At least it’s not an e-bike specific 17.5mm

that would at least be a step in the right direction.

 

[trib]

So after a bit of reading it turns out that a Fox Awl is basically a Marzocchi Z2, with some threaded holes for a bolt on ABS device.

Hooray for progress

 

[sethimus]

What the fuck is an e-suv???

things you buy when you get your over 60 starter kit

its mandatory that you put as many gadgets as possible on the handlebar

 

[Jm_]

things you buy when you get your over 60 starter kit

View attachment 219323

its mandatory that you put as many gadgets as possible on the handlebar

Theres nothing wrong with the laser on my handlebar.