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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,136
22,169
Sleazattle
Yeah I'm like one of two people who still finds single pivots interesting, but this frame is...questionable. That seat tube. The leverage curve. meep.

Single pivots will always have a laundry list of shortcomings. A lot of those can be mitigated through additional linkages, however the old school Orange/Santa Cruz bullet designs just literally have every possible shortcoming wrapped up into a tidy little package. They had the advantage of simplicity when people didn't know how to properly design or fabricate a full suspension, but it makes no sense today unless you are literally trying to build a $300 Marino.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
17,367
14,857

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,302
10,807
AK
Single pivots will always have a laundry list of shortcomings. A lot of those can be mitigated through additional linkages, however the old school Orange/Santa Cruz bullet designs just literally have every possible shortcoming wrapped up into a tidy little package. They had the advantage of simplicity when people didn't know how to properly design or fabricate a full suspension, but it makes no sense today unless you are literally trying to build a $300 Marino.
But that’s perfect for people that have no idea how a bike should ride. The kind that have never touched any of the knobs.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
22,135
21,710
Canaderp
Devinci just launched a new version of the Troy.


What I mainly noted:
- Alu frame made in Canada
- Went back to Boost148
- 2 models based on the same frame: 140/130 or 160/150
- Each model available with a single build kit or frame only. Probably a good move these days to limit inventory issues.
- No headset cable routing
- 29 or Mullet
- Long reach
- I would have preferred a shorter ST
- Now with in-frame storage

Hopefully, this is a sign Devinci (and hopefully others) are starting to move away from SuperBoost157.
I like how they are making more and more in Canada again.

And thank God that bike isn't ugly like some recent ones.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,656
666

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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,931
7,185
borcester rhymes
Single pivots will always have a laundry list of shortcomings. A lot of those can be mitigated through additional linkages, however the old school Orange/Santa Cruz bullet designs just literally have every possible shortcoming wrapped up into a tidy little package. They had the advantage of simplicity when people didn't know how to properly design or fabricate a full suspension, but it makes no sense today unless you are literally trying to build a $300 Marino.
You’re not wrong- by the time you’ve fixed everything wrong with a true single pivot, you end up with a Horst link/split pivot/walking beam. I still think they’re neat if done as good as possible, especially if you want light weight.

Anyways- pinkbike sez that Devinci now owns the patent on split pivot, which is interesting.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,869
7,231
But that’s perfect for people that have no idea how a bike should ride. The kind that have never touched any of the knobs.
Or for people like me that know any bike with some boing and decent geo will be more capable than they ever will.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,931
7,185
borcester rhymes
wonder if DW needed to sell it off for capital after trust shit the bed.
I'd assume it's more of a rapidly drying source of income. Between conflict with Trek, the freeing of horst link, the reality that it doesn't do THAT much, and an industry that is obsessed with "NEW NEWER NEWNESS" I can't imagine any new companies were interested in licensing split pivot. It's pretty much just salsa and devinici at this point, right? Maybe salsa will be on something else soon (they're blowing out all their MTB)
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
89,106
27,294
media blackout
I'd assume it's more of a rapidly drying source of income. Between conflict with Trek, the freeing of horst link, the reality that it doesn't do THAT much, and an industry that is obsessed with "NEW NEWER NEWNESS" I can't imagine any new companies were interested in licensing split pivot. It's pretty much just salsa and devinici at this point, right? Maybe salsa will be on something else soon (they're blowing out all their MTB)
honestly i get the sense that DW might be done with the bike industry. can't say that i blame him.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
5,366
2,453
not in Whistler anymore :/
I'd assume it's more of a rapidly drying source of income. Between conflict with Trek, the freeing of horst link, the reality that it doesn't do THAT much, and an industry that is obsessed with "NEW NEWER NEWNESS" I can't imagine any new companies were interested in licensing split pivot. It's pretty much just salsa and devinici at this point, right? Maybe salsa will be on something else soon (they're blowing out all their MTB)
orbea uses it too
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,212
1,178
I'm certain that what's going on here was a combination of:
1) all ebike motors have pretty awful reliability reputations, with Bosch being the only halfway decent reputation
2) SC (and others) wanted to switch to Bosch to reduce warranty costs plus keep their own brand reputation for reliability up
3) the latest Bosch motor form factor conflicts with good VPP pivot locations. Jimmy from Cascade says that VPP link changes are often a matter of fractions of millimeters
4) the majority of ebike riders are lazy and aren't trying to pump and boost every roller, and just want a "plush" ride.
5) when they did the 3 different V10 prototypes, they tried VPP, 4 bar, and 4bar high pivot. The racers preferred VPP for pumping efficiency for speed.
6) combining all of the above, for the target audience of this bike, there's not really any downsides to going to 4bar
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,302
10,807
AK
5) when they did the 3 different V10 prototypes, they tried VPP, 4 bar, and 4bar high pivot. The racers preferred VPP for pumping efficiency for speed.
wut? Those are all the same thing.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
89,106
27,294
media blackout
I'm certain that what's going on here was a combination of:
1) all ebike motors have pretty awful reliability reputations, with Bosch being the only halfway decent reputation
2) SC (and others) wanted to switch to Bosch to reduce warranty costs plus keep their own brand reputation for reliability up
3) the latest Bosch motor form factor conflicts with good VPP pivot locations. Jimmy from Cascade says that VPP link changes are often a matter of fractions of millimeters
4) the majority of ebike riders are lazy and aren't trying to pump and boost every roller, and just want a "plush" ride.
5) when they did the 3 different V10 prototypes, they tried VPP, 4 bar, and 4bar high pivot. The racers preferred VPP for pumping efficiency for speed.
6) combining all of the above, for the target audience of this bike, there's not really any downsides to going to 4bar
they're not the only ones that had to use a different suspension layout to account for a motor (yeti comes to mind first)
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,212
1,178
Tell me that ebike is targeted at Euro commuters who think they need an eMTB but will never take it more offroad than a gravel path without actually saying it. (NX shifting, ABS, ultra low standover, really high stack, weird skinny Fox fork)
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
22,135
21,710
Canaderp
Tell me that ebike is targeted at Euro commuters who think they need an eMTB but will never take it more offroad than a gravel path without actually saying it. (NX shifting, ABS, ultra low standover, really high stack, weird skinny Fox fork)
Why'd I google Fox AWL...

1727719338554.png


 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,656
666
So after a bit of reading it turns out that a Fox Awl is basically a Marzocchi Z2, with some threaded holes for a bolt on ABS device.

Hooray for progress