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canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
10,289
6,347
Canaderp
I think Jenson was trying to give those Eminent things away a while back.

edit: just the 31% off, not as much as the 45% off those Marin things.
The Marins are blowing even Intense sales out of the water.

Check out this deal from the other day:

 

toodles

Turbo Monkey
Aug 24, 2004
2,837
1,110
Australia
Is that an 87 degree seat angle?
Ok, so I gotta admit I'm biased here and I've drank the Kool-Aid or whatever, but seriously - if you're only riding up and down and not across, are there any disdvantages to a hectic steep seat angle? I mean, you're the same distance from the cranks, but now you're not straining your back trying to stop the front end of the bike from wandering on climbs and you don't have the saddle nose giving you a colon inspection when it gets steep.

Maybe they feel 'cramped' on long flat miles, but if you're doing that sucked in. Maybe they can get too steep but i"ve yet to ride a bike that had a seat angle so steep it was an issue.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,776
929
Ok, so I gotta admit I'm biased here and I've drank the Kool-Aid or whatever, but seriously - if you're only riding up and down and not across, are there any disdvantages to a hectic steep seat angle? I mean, you're the same distance from the cranks, but now you're not straining your back trying to stop the front end of the bike from wandering on climbs and you don't have the saddle nose giving you a colon inspection when it gets steep.
@buckoW has a strong opinion on this one, he said he's worried people on the internet won't agree with him, but I told him some of the nicest people are on the internet and will be supportive of his views. Hopefully he'll chime in shortly.
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,350
73
MA
I've said it multiple times now but there is certainly a too steep. If your optimizing the position of COM for climbing, then you're compromising the raised seat position for everything else.

There are lots of factors and variables in play, but I don't like the exaggerated movement required to lessen the load on the front wheel and additional nominal pressure distribution when riding raised seat rolling terrain with a seat too far forward.

Interesting observation. That website that has 'flyweight' folks reviewing things and has images of them reviewing things with tires planted on the ground or a few feet off of it didn't make note that they slid the seat all the way back on the rails on a Pole bike. That one which broke under that new reviewer who appears to get many many many feets off the ground.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,661
958
Seattle
Ok, so I gotta admit I'm biased here and I've drank the Kool-Aid or whatever, but seriously - if you're only riding up and down and not across, are there any disdvantages to a hectic steep seat angle? I mean, you're the same distance from the cranks, but now you're not straining your back trying to stop the front end of the bike from wandering on climbs and you don't have the saddle nose giving you a colon inspection when it gets steep.

Maybe they feel 'cramped' on long flat miles, but if you're doing that sucked in. Maybe they can get too steep but i"ve yet to ride a bike that had a seat angle so steep it was an issue.
There's probably such a thing as too steep for that, but (for me, anyway) the number of bikes on the market that approach that is minuscule.

I do agree that the more you're riding rolling terrain, the more sense it makes to mellow out a little on STA.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,707
2,063
AK
I know a lot of rides that are only up and down...but a lot more rides have level spots and only having it optimized for straight up and down would really limit your riding IME. It's similar to one of those things where you think you spend way more time on the DHs than you really do, it's just a fraction of the time, and yes I want to be comfortable and stable on those downhills, but I think it's BS to say that I don't want to be comfortable on the climbs and other sections too. If you hate those too much you'll just shuttle and it's all moot. Just like about everything in mtb, there's a "bubble" and then we get brought back to reality and things stabilize. Pole and Nicolai and a few others are on the far side of the "bubble" and many of the bigger manufacturers are likely using a more data-driven and measured approach, rather than the passion of Leo.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
4,990
2,571
As the comments said, I think you'd need that Trust fork to avoid binding on that traditional telescoping Lyrik - unless you just start riding rampage lines continuously.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,661
958
Seattle
As the comments said, I think you'd need that Trust fork to avoid binding on that traditional telescoping Lyrik - unless you just start riding rampage lines continuously.
Yeah, that's why I have a 40 on my Geometron. A 170mm 36 felt really bindy at a 62 degree HTA. I can't imagine 57.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,834
229
vancouver eastside
rad content. i just love that pb has the resources to do something like this for funs. granted, they're becoming a bit of a monopolistic juggernaut, but hey. this is good shit.
 

Floor Tom

Monkey
Sep 28, 2009
220
26
Scotland
rad content. i just love that pb has the resources to do something like this for funs. granted, they're becoming a bit of a monopolistic juggernaut, but hey. this is good shit.
Yeah it's pretty cool that they are doing this. It'll be interesting to see what they like and dislike about it
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,834
229
vancouver eastside
i mean, this is obviously an over the top piss take, but does make one wonder why it's taken soooo many years to get to the point where we've got some proper aggressive geometry. like, it's not a leap to think that perhaps steep, tall and short geometry might not be optimal for going fast in steep gnarly terrain. granted, hindsight and all. just needed more people like chris porter disrupting things an an earlier date. despite people generally being all gaga over the latest & greatest tech, the mtb industry can be surprisingly conservative.
 

Floor Tom

Monkey
Sep 28, 2009
220
26
Scotland
Yeah, I'm slightly disappointed that they didn't go super long chain stays, like 480 or something. I guess they could do it with just a new rear end as an update in the future.
 

rpet

Turbo Monkey
Jun 9, 2003
3,035
348
El Lay
Yea, what’s with the Stack.

Actual Seat Tube #s look weird... maybe the geo chart has typos.
 

dovbush66

Chimp
Aug 27, 2018
96
73
Ireland
The project bike from the pb video got me looking at Genio's catalog frames and man they look sick, especially the Dh frame. burly af.
1579027069386.png

1579027220827.png
 

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,219
1,152
Italy/south Tyrol
New Propain Tyee:
27,5" and 29" versions, aluminium and carbon available, online-configurator means variable color combinations and lots of components tochoose from. Great looking bike I reckon.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,356
523
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
i mean, this is obviously an over the top piss take, but does make one wonder why it's taken soooo many years to get to the point where we've got some proper aggressive geometry.
I've always wondered that as well, why did nobody in 2005 say "What if we tried a head angle under 70 degrees?", then I see the reception this thing, and bikes like the Pole or Mojo get and it makes sense. You'd have gotten laughed out of Interbike if you showed up with a current trail bike back in 2005.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
37,069
3,915
Sleazattle
I've always wondered that as well, why did nobody in 2005 say "What if we tried a head angle under 70 degrees?", then I see the reception this thing, and bikes like the Pole or Mojo get and it makes sense. You'd have gotten laughed out of Interbike if you showed up with a current trail bike back in 2005.
This was discussed in another thread but my conclusion was that there have been several other innovations/improvements made that make modern geometry possible such as wide ass bars and pretty stiff and light frames. 15 years ago, a bike with modern geometry would probably have been heavy, flexy and handled like a cargo ship.
 
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