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Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,009
391
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Enve's always used internal nipples on all rims cuz they say smaller hole is stronger. Once so many other options came on the market internal nipples were one of the big strikes against Enve. Nice to see the change and I expect it across all their MTB rims.

Think about this: Remember when EVERY high end non-DH bike had Enve rims? I almost never see them anymore. That's a fall from rim royalty almost as hard a Mavic's.
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
12,880
4,736
AK
too busy repairing your own carbon i take it
Yeah...but I don't run 15psi in my rims, so they hold up.

I seriously don't get how people say they run 20psi or whatever. At speed during high Gs, my tires roll and collapse. They don't roll off the rim, but it's obvious they don't support during those forces unless the pressure is higher. I just don't get how people do it.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
12,880
4,736
AK
Enve's always used internal nipples on all rims cuz they say smaller hole is stronger. Once so many other options came on the market internal nipples were one of the big strikes against Enve. Nice to see the change and I expect it across all their MTB rims.

Think about this: Remember when EVERY high end non-DH bike had Enve rims? I almost never see hem anymore. That's a fall from rim royalty almost as hard a Mavic's.
Yeah, those types of things are super obvious. You can't charge that much for something that is going to come way down due to economy of scale. I can see a little premium for a US company and especially if they are actually delivering on something that other companies are not, but exclusivity is not going to continue unless you've actually found a niche that no one else can or wants to do. That's like some crazy Rohloff/Pinon gearbox or something that you do well and no one else does. A CF rim was never going to be such a thing. A few companies like Wolftooth and 1up have done a pretty amazing job of widening their component lines. A few of them just started with a gear-expander or remote dropper and now offer all sorts of great stuff, but that's the point, other people are going to come out with good dropper remotes so hedging your entire business on that one thing and charging a shitload for it is probably not going to be the best business decision. Enve did go to a few other areas, but CF stems have always been a waste, not lighter than good alloy and everyone else under the sun does stuff like CF handlebars. Just not a sustainable business model and it's no mystery why they aren't speced on all bikes anymore. Now those manufacturers have lined up their own OEM contracts with CF rim builders at a far lower price. Enve is not a company I expect to survive in the long run, because they don't do anything unique or "best".
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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Yeah...but I don't run 15psi in my rims, so they hold up.

I seriously don't get how people say they run 20psi or whatever. At speed during high Gs, my tires roll and collapse. They don't roll off the rim, but it's obvious they don't support during those forces unless the pressure is higher. I just don't get how people do it.
that's why i started running inserts. not to get low pressure, but to keep tires from rolling.
 

jstuhlman

We noticed.
Dec 3, 2009
12,761
7,289
Cackalacka du Nord
Yeah...but I don't run 15psi in my rims, so they hold up.

I seriously don't get how people say they run 20psi or whatever. At speed during high Gs, my tires roll and collapse. They don't roll off the rim, but it's obvious they don't support during those forces unless the pressure is higher. I just don't get how people do it.
what casings do you run? when i was on exos i had that problem for sure; with doubledown on the same rims it's really not been an issue.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
69,634
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media blackout
Enve's always used internal nipples on all rims cuz they say smaller hole is stronger. Once so many other options came on the market internal nipples were one of the big strikes against Enve. Nice to see the change and I expect it across all their MTB rims.

Think about this: Remember when EVERY high end non-DH bike had Enve rims? I almost never see hem anymore. That's a fall from rim royalty almost as hard a Mavic's.
Yeah, those types of things are super obvious. You can't charge that much for something that is going to come way down due to economy of scale. I can see a little premium for a US company and especially if they are actually delivering on something that other companies are not, but exclusivity is not going to continue unless you've actually found a niche that no one else can or wants to do. That's like some crazy Rohloff/Pinon gearbox or something that you do well and no one else does. A CF rim was never going to be such a thing. A few companies like Wolftooth and 1up have done a pretty amazing job of widening their component lines. A few of them just started with a gear-expander or remote dropper and now offer all sorts of great stuff, but that's the point, other people are going to come out with good dropper remotes so hedging your entire business on that one thing and charging a shitload for it is probably not going to be the best business decision. Enve did go to a few other areas, but CF stems have always been a waste, not lighter than good alloy and everyone else under the sun does stuff like CF handlebars. Just not a sustainable business model and it's no mystery why they aren't speced on all bikes anymore. Now those manufacturers have lined up their own OEM contracts with CF rim builders at a far lower price. Enve is not a company I expect to survive in the long run, because they don't do anything unique or "best".
don't forget, ENVE's primary business is still road.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
44,166
9,888
Sleazattle
Yeah...but I don't run 15psi in my rims, so they hold up.

I seriously don't get how people say they run 20psi or whatever. At speed during high Gs, my tires roll and collapse. They don't roll off the rim, but it's obvious they don't support during those forces unless the pressure is higher. I just don't get how people do it.

What size rim/tires are you running?
 

toodles

Turbo Monkey
Aug 24, 2004
3,553
2,030
Australia
I seriously don't get how people say they run 20psi or whatever. At speed during high Gs, my tires roll and collapse. They don't roll off the rim, but it's obvious they don't support during those forces unless the pressure is higher. I just don't get how people do it.
19-20 front, 24-25 rear for me. Done it for years. Bad habits I guess
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,009
391
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Yeah, those types of things are super obvious. You can't charge that much for something that is going to come way down due to economy of scale. I can see a little premium for a US company and especially if they are actually delivering on something that other companies are not, but exclusivity is not going to continue unless you've actually found a niche that no one else can or wants to do. That's like some crazy Rohloff/Pinon gearbox or something that you do well and no one else does. A CF rim was never going to be such a thing. A few companies like Wolftooth and 1up have done a pretty amazing job of widening their component lines. A few of them just started with a gear-expander or remote dropper and now offer all sorts of great stuff, but that's the point, other people are going to come out with good dropper remotes so hedging your entire business on that one thing and charging a shitload for it is probably not going to be the best business decision. Enve did go to a few other areas, but CF stems have always been a waste, not lighter than good alloy and everyone else under the sun does stuff like CF handlebars. Just not a sustainable business model and it's no mystery why they aren't speced on all bikes anymore. Now those manufacturers have lined up their own OEM contracts with CF rim builders at a far lower price. Enve is not a company I expect to survive in the long run, because they don't do anything unique or "best".
Completely agree but I expect Enve to continue on based on roadie sales. They don't trust no-name carbon bars and believe that the top rim brands have better aero than the cheapies. Also, Enve carbon forks are still VERY popular on frames that don't make their own forks, like boutique and custom companies.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,009
391
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
There's so many variables involved with what tire pressure you can get away with, and one of the biggest is variance between gauges.
I thought digital gauges all read the same. Obviously you need one that goes on and off without leaking but I don't see how the sensor could age or vary between devices enough to make make a real difference. I assume it's a solid state gizmo that measures voltage across something that varies resistance based on air pressure. All the digi shock pumps and tire gauges at our shop seem to agree.
Of course, this is assuming you're not a poor who uses analogue gauges that rely on bending metal.
 

pizza diavola

Monkey
Dec 3, 2013
224
415
Yeah...but I don't run 15psi in my rims, so they hold up.

I seriously don't get how people say they run 20psi or whatever. At speed during high Gs, my tires roll and collapse. They don't roll off the rim, but it's obvious they don't support during those forces unless the pressure is higher. I just don't get how people do it.
a. I'm lighter, and
2. I'm much much slower
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
12,880
4,736
AK
believe that the top rim brands have better aero than the cheapies.
They don't, it's been shown. Mostly, they tend to fail on laminar flow and failure to take into account actual turbulent wind. When you go fast enough, wind tends to streamline pretty close, but bikes don't really go that fast. They go fast enough that wind resistance and aero is definitely important, but most head-on wind relative to the rider or wheel isn't nearly as "head on" as the wind tunnel makes it seem. It's not at 100kts or anything. The other big failures are the proper taper ratio and subsequent structures behind these, in other words, you screw up the first one and the second one can be a square and not affect wind resistance at all. The road companies are heavy on the hype, but few are actually really doing it. It doesn't take much to screw up laminar flow and the tire-rim seam/interface is pretty critical. It's pretty rare that they have really nailed it and have a structure/shape that is significantly beneficial over anything else. There are just too many variables usually and this is IMO where the industry is scraping the bottom of the barrel, few if any of competent aeronautical engineers are hanging out in the bike industry. They do put a lot of energy into marketing and building up their products though. This isn't just from Hambini, I have a pretty decent education on coefficients of drag and aero effects, laminar vs. turbulent vs. separated.
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
991
595
La Verne
Yeah...but I don't run 15psi in my rims, so they hold up.

I seriously don't get how people say they run 20psi or whatever. At speed during high Gs, my tires roll and collapse. They don't roll off the rim, but it's obvious they don't support during those forces unless the pressure is higher. I just don't get how people do it.
Yes the feeling of rolling tingles the yaw/drift sensors when your not....
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
6,504
1,561
Yeah...but I don't run 15psi in my rims, so they hold up.

I seriously don't get how people say they run 20psi or whatever. At speed during high Gs, my tires roll and collapse. They don't roll off the rim, but it's obvious they don't support during those forces unless the pressure is higher. I just don't get how people do it.
After twenty years, I understand it.

1. Light
2. Non-agressive (i.e. not pulling any gs)
3. Slow
4. Insert

Or some combination of the above. Yeah, I said it.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
69,634
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media blackout
Weird. Do they still make them in Utah? I'm guessing they went overseas for that kind of delay. It's not like all their production is allotted to OEM cuz no one specs them anymore.
yes, still based in ogden. delays are between demand and raw material plus subcomponent sourcing.

Completely agree but I expect Enve to continue on based on roadie sales. They don't trust no-name carbon bars and believe that the top rim brands have better aero than the cheapies. Also, Enve carbon forks are still VERY popular on frames that don't make their own forks, like boutique and custom companies.
yea, i was gonna make the same point about their forks. used OEM by companies that don't make their own forks and lots of mid sized road makers that focus on high end. but overall yes, road sales make up the bulk of their business. they wouldn't have started offering custom US made carbon road frames if their business was struggling.

I thought digital gauges all read the same. Obviously you need one that goes on and off without leaking but I don't see how the sensor could age or vary between devices enough to make make a real difference. I assume it's a solid state gizmo that measures voltage across something that varies resistance based on air pressure. All the digi shock pumps and tire gauges at our shop seem to agree.
Of course, this is assuming you're not a poor who uses analogue gauges that rely on bending metal.
nope, like any gauge, calibration is required to ensure accuracy. digital pressure gauges generally use compact piezoresistive sensors.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
12,880
4,736
AK
yes, still based in ogden. delays are between demand and raw material plus subcomponent sourcing.



yea, i was gonna make the same point about their forks. used OEM by companies that don't make their own forks and lots of mid sized road makers that focus on high end. but overall yes, road sales make up the bulk of their business. they wouldn't have started offering custom US made carbon road frames if their business was struggling.



nope, like any gauge, calibration is required to ensure accuracy. digital pressure gauges generally use compact piezoresistive sensors.
Where does the raw material (CF) come from?