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konifere

Chimp
Dec 20, 2021
36
51
^i dont get it?
Honestly, it's pretty obvious! Can't you see that they are both now made to be installed without crowns ? I don't recall any other company doing this. Except maybe Fox when looking at the latest pit bits... Also, more easy clues : both have black stanchions and white decals.

They tried to trick us with different lowers and adjusters, but we're not fools! We can clearly see!

(But seriously, I don't get it either!)
 

shirk007

Monkey
Apr 14, 2009
393
226
No, they are not. It's basically a short link vpp with a yoke attached at a rearward point of the upper short link.
The part that is similar to Curries 3VO is the forward location of the lower short link. The reward part of the link is mounted to the frame and the rear triangle mounted on the forward end. At sag and into the travel the IC is going to be behind the BB and moves further rearward and upward.



This concept is different than other short link VPP designs that have the forward portion of the lower short link mounted to the frame. These have an IC in front of the bb and it tends to move lower and back towards the bb.

Yoke and upper rocker are LR tuning and packaging.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
1,661
916
Styria
The part that is similar to Curries 3VO is the forward location of the lower short link. The reward part of the link is mounted to the frame and the rear triangle mounted on the forward end. At sag and into the travel the IC is going to be behind the BB and moves further rearward and upward.



This concept is different than other short link VPP designs that have the forward portion of the lower short link mounted to the frame. These have an IC in front of the bb and it tends to move lower and back towards the bb.

Yoke and upper rocker are LR tuning and packaging.
Agreed, I see what you mean. I thought the thing special with the 3VO design was the double linkage at the upper link.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
4,167
2,795
Australia
Looking at Commencal's numbers I would go for a small on their 2021-2022 models. I am usually a medium guy on most brands at 175cm tall.
Funny how things change since I remember considering a large Commencal 10 to 15 years ago to get a longer bike but was put off by the tall seat tube
Yeah they used to be crazy short. I test rode a few back in 2017/18 and was going to buy the Large and cut down the seat tube. A few of their team riders did the same thing, but I decided I didn't want the warranty hassle and went elsewhere.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
15,102
6,525
AK
XC with some long, low n slack loving.

Arc8 Evolve

Looks like they are trying to get on the supercaliber bandwagon, deliver a hardtail-like power-transfer through a means different than the supercaliber patent. At least it appears to use a normal shock, that's good.
 

shirk007

Monkey
Apr 14, 2009
393
226
Looks like they are trying to get on the supercaliber bandwagon, deliver a hardtail-like power-transfer through a means different than the supercaliber patent. At least it appears to use a normal shock, that's good.
They are copying some of Yeti's old homework. Yeti 303-SS proto from 2008.



 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
15,102
6,525
AK
For reasons.

edit- To go with the short travel and more capable new style geometry.
how would you get more seal and bearing drag from a lower lev ratio?
Lower leverage ratio magnifies bearing and seal drag. High leverage ratio minimizes it. The drag is "fixed", but when you change LR, you either end up with your leverage closer to this number, or further away. The closer to it, the more it will affect the bike, basically adding non-adjustable damping. IME, this along with the inherent necessity for lighter damping creates some crazy over-damped stuff at these lower LRs, some of it can be controlled, some of it is not.

Why would ultra-low leverage "go with" short travel? It's actually the opposite from what I've seen, they want to use shorter-travel shocks like Pivot and Yeti that are higher LR than their older XC bikes...which adds up to shorter/lighter shock, for what it's worth. What used to get a 1.75" stroke seems to be getting 1.5 these days. But it's bad enough trying to find an aftermarket shock that isn't a jackhammer due to heavy tunes.

There tends to be a number for decent LR these days, too low and you run into wildly over-damped stuff and too high and it's under extreme pressure and won't last long or work for fatty fats. If you buy an aftermarket shock, say your original craps out or you want some new features, all aftermarket stuff will be wildly over-damped if your LR is around 2.0. Not just a little bit.

I know the argument about more sensitive damping and this and that, but having gone really low LR and still with 2 bikes pretty low, it's been overhyped and over-represented most of the time.
 
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shirk007

Monkey
Apr 14, 2009
393
226
RS aftermarket shocks are mostly Medium/Medium tune. A service center should be able to convert to what is needed. Buy from a place like Fluid Function and you will able able to get any tune you need on RS.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
15,102
6,525
AK
RS aftermarket shocks are mostly Medium/Medium tune. A service center should be able to convert to what is needed. Buy from a place like Fluid Function and you will able able to get any tune you need on RS.
All aftermarket shocks except custom ones are M/M as far as I've ever found. The idea that there's a service center next door or that this is a normal procedure for anyone buying a shock is fairly uncommon IME. This is an area where the industry flat out sucks. They should be offering the tune you need with the shock or some way to easily achieve it, but 99% of the time, this is not the case. The industry doesn't give a F about aftermarket, save for some aftermarket tuners that actually do.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
8,140
3,839
Ottawa, Canada
Except for the yoke.
Sure, but at least it's short...?

There's other more questionable design choices when you consider it was ostensibly designed for their enduro riders (two of which are former world champs - Mélanie Pugin and Karim Amour [Masters world champ]): 65° HA, short chainstays, and stuporBoost rear end, and especially the headset routed cables are things that would probably turn me off. But I still find it clean and simple to look at.

it just needs moar black and blue. :D
 

vivisectxi

Monkey
Jan 14, 2021
191
191
yeast van
aesthetically, i like what's going on - with the exception of the seat mast. just move that brace-y thing up a bit... (behold the splendor of my 30 second paint creation):
blarg.jpg
 

vivisectxi

Monkey
Jan 14, 2021
191
191
yeast van
^yeah, WTF is with that? i thought cesar was better than that.

what logic am i missing that supports this spec? the fact it's widespread now suggests some sort of (commonly agreed upon) benefit. anyone know a product manager involved with this asshatery?
 
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