DH bikes are generally produced in significantly smaller quantities than other frame types, such as trail, enduro, etc. economies of scale.
Random new bike thread
- Thread starter Sandro
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Yeah but that was not my point. The higher cost wasn't just economics of scale. Legend has Ti pivot axles and that forged/cnc'd shock basket other Banshee bikes don't have. Those 2 alone increase the price even if the production volume was the same as on enduro bikes.
FWIW, my Titan mk1 was € 2650 in April 2021 with an EXT Storia, frame only would've been € 1800. Both fair prices I'd say. Today's prices are €2150 and €2950, so a 20% and 12% increase. Compared to others still okayish, I think.
Not sure if Titan uses Ti Axles (would be weird if it didn't lol) but yeah. It was priced quite well. Especially given the storia is probably the most expensive shock on the market. I'd love to test ride a titan as it seems to not fit my needs (I'm more interested in an enduro bike with park bike lean) but I'm still curious about it
that alone wouldn't constitute such a large price difference.
fwiw all the v3+ full suspension bikes are USD $2800 and up. Legend is USD $3000. (frame only prices)
Not claiming that all of the price difference stems from higher production cost. Economics of scale for sure play a role. It's just a mix of those 2 not just 1.
The Legend in 2010 was nearly 2x the price of a Spitfire and that was the time when DH bikes were much more popular (and trailbikes were less popular so the gap in production volume was smaller)
All the banshee bikes have that forged shock basket now.
And they can all fit a water bottle. Except the Legend of course.
Maybe it's the size of the forged thing? Or maybe it's just TI + Scale as Jon suggests. I remember I was one of the people who preordered the Legend so I was quite aware of their production process (and delay process) at the time and it seemed quite complicated then.All the banshee bikes have that forged shock basket now.
And they can all fit a water bottle. Except the Legend of course.
Well one of the cost factors is still going to be the scale at which the Legends are manufactured. It has its own shock cage and most likely tube set, and with so few produced the costs will be that much more.
I have no actual knowledge or basis of this, but I bet the other models also share tubing. Like I'm guessing the Rune and Titan tubing is the same.
True. I remember Titan shared Tubing with one of the frames when it was first prototyped.
i'm pretty sure the all the other FS frames from banshee have been updated since the current iteration of the legend was released
That’s Interesting,so the bike would ride the same no matter where you put Rim in the adjustable drop out correct? I assume that is determined by the length of the Bottom Chainstay?
I like the idea of you’re frame JM,now I wonder how does the Brake mount location work on a sliding dropout?
I would like one location being able to fit largest tire with Ritchey Droputs. I do not want sliding dropouts,bad idea IMHO. Trying to put too many options and making people happy. KISS.
And that stupid bolt in the chain stays again? WTF? For that price? This ain’t right to me.
JM,who could make AVY a Steel Frame with Richey Drop Outs Proper and a Steel Fork? Custom of Course.
I want a True Feeling of the Bike with different Tires being my Squish. That would be Sick. It does not have to have the Ritchey DO’s.
Avy off to See If Ritchey makes a Fatty.
Avy
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Arctodus
Big adventures require a bike that can rise to the occasion. Arctodus is versatile, strong, and ready to explore. It has adjustable geometry, a durable steel frame, a massive front triangle for a frame bag, lots of cargo mounts, and can clear the biggest fat bike tires on the market.
otsocycles.com
That thing is Beast,nice 6th,never heard of them.Arctodus
Big adventures require a bike that can rise to the occasion. Arctodus is versatile, strong, and ready to explore. It has adjustable geometry, a durable steel frame, a massive front triangle for a frame bag, lots of cargo mounts, and can clear the biggest fat bike tires on the market.
Avy
Looking at that Beast 6th,I am wondering if anyone makes a steel fork that wide? I would not want Any rack mounts on that Carbon fork. Just a pure fork. I do not trust a Carbon Fork really. Though I have never ran one. I was thinkin Carbon Rims,I read they are stiff as hell. I thought they would be supple but strong? That being said,I’d rock them for weight savings for sure. I’d have to ask a million questions on the rim and hub option? So many choices?
Funny where that company is from. That Bike is perfect for them and their Mad Winters. The owner must be from a MotorCross background. The Front Brake cable routing threw me a curve till I seen why.
Avy
A lot of fat bikes come with carbon forks now, probably no issue.
Surly makes some steel forks.
surlybikes.com
Surly makes some steel forks.
Wednesday Fork | Fat Bike Forks | Surly Bikes
The Surly Wednesday Fat Bike Fork is ready for trail use and features butted and tapered blades with thru-axle dropouts spaced at 150mm.
surlybikes.com
Yeah,I was thinkin more high end. That Fork is nice,just I want it clean again. Just a straight blade. I am not going out campin. Just a dream anyways.A lot of fat bikes come with carbon forks now, probably no issue.
Surly makes some steel forks.
Wednesday Fork | Fat Bike Forks | Surly Bikes
The Surly Wednesday Fat Bike Fork is ready for trail use and features butted and tapered blades with thru-axle dropouts spaced at 150mm.
Avy
Carbon fork makes a big difference in lofting the front end up and over...well, anything. The difference in how this feels between a 1.5lb carbon fork and a 5lb steel fork is huge. I've ran both and the biggest selling is how much lighter and easier it makes the front end. Some of the bigger beefier carbon forks are more like 2lbs and crazy strong to carry racks and stuff, like the Salsa Kingpin.A lot of fat bikes come with carbon forks now, probably no issue.
Surly makes some steel forks.
Wednesday Fork | Fat Bike Forks | Surly Bikes
The Surly Wednesday Fat Bike Fork is ready for trail use and features butted and tapered blades with thru-axle dropouts spaced at 150mm.
Egerie As-Tit-Ron-a-Metron
View Vital MTB member Paul_Aston's mountain bike check "Egerie As-Tit-Ron-a-Metron".
Interesting take on a pedalable dh bike from Paul Aston/Egerie. Like a starling and a geometron had a baby. Pinion/steel&Ti construction/super tall bars/custom tune dorado/ some other odd stuff in there too
In 2010 I bought a third hand Nicolai Ion frame for a touch less than I bought my Corsair the year before.
The Nicolai was far better value, it's still a rad looking thing.
and paul will undoubtably go on (at length) how his is the best bike in the world, and everything else is unrideable shit.
(still, a neat project)
(still, a neat project)
I listened to a podcast with him on it a little while ago and holy hell does that guy know better than everyone ever and anyone is disagrees is wrong.
he would have gotten on great with the tantrum guySounds like he'd fit in here
i didn't even need to read the article to know who's bike that was once i saw the ass master cock blaster saddle angle.Egerie As-Tit-Ron-a-Metron
View Vital MTB member Paul_Aston's mountain bike check "Egerie As-Tit-Ron-a-Metron".www.vitalmtb.com
Interesting take on a pedalable dh bike from Paul Aston/Egerie. Like a starling and a geometron had a baby. Pinion/steel&Ti construction/super tall bars/custom tune dorado/ some other odd stuff in there too
When was it? 10 years ago? I'm always ahead of the time man.Egerie As-Tit-Ron-a-Metron
View Vital MTB member Paul_Aston's mountain bike check "Egerie As-Tit-Ron-a-Metron".
Interesting take on a pedalable dh bike from Paul Aston/Egerie. Like a starling and a geometron had a baby. Pinion/steel&Ti construction/super tall bars/custom tune dorado/ some other odd stuff in there too
Aenomaly Switchgrade
do you have one?
No idea what size tubes he is using but having ridden a bike with a 50+mm diameter ti downtube they can be plenty stiff, possible too stiff
Agreed. My last 3 hardtails all rode very differently. I had a Stanton ti frame that was stiff and direct, and then I switched to a Stanton 853 frame that was comfortable and damped. And now I am on a Turner Ti frame that is both comfortable and lively. My opinion after all this is that ti is an awesome material to build a great riding trail hardtail with but to me it loses its appeal when you start overbuilding them to make an "enduro" hardtail etc... You can build them to be stiff as shit, but that takes away the ride quality that makes it ride so well.