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norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
DH bikes are generally produced in significantly smaller quantities than other frame types, such as trail, enduro, etc. economies of scale.
Yeah but that was not my point. The higher cost wasn't just economics of scale. Legend has Ti pivot axles and that forged/cnc'd shock basket other Banshee bikes don't have. Those 2 alone increase the price even if the production volume was the same as on enduro bikes.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
2,057
1,298
Styria
The Legends were considerably more than the rest of their offer but that's because the Legend was a fair bit more expensive to produce. I think Titan is closest to it. $3100 is rough. I paid $4000 for an ohlins equipped YT Capra. Frame only offers in 2023 seem to be available only to 40+ year old ppl with good jobs or young pple who can spend all their income on bikes since they have no other expenses.
FWIW, my Titan mk1 was € 2650 in April 2021 with an EXT Storia, frame only would've been € 1800. Both fair prices I'd say. Today's prices are €2150 and €2950, so a 20% and 12% increase. Compared to others still okayish, I think.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
FWIW, my Titan mk1 was € 2650 in April 2021 with an EXT Storia, frame only would've been € 1800. Both fair prices I'd say. Today's prices are €2150 and €2950, so a 20% and 12% increase. Compared to others still okayish, I think.
Not sure if Titan uses Ti Axles (would be weird if it didn't lol) but yeah. It was priced quite well. Especially given the storia is probably the most expensive shock on the market. I'd love to test ride a titan as it seems to not fit my needs (I'm more interested in an enduro bike with park bike lean) but I'm still curious about it
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout
Yeah but that was not my point. The higher cost wasn't just economics of scale. Legend has Ti pivot axles and that forged/cnc'd shock basket other Banshee bikes don't have. Those 2 alone increase the price even if the production volume was the same as on enduro bikes.
that alone wouldn't constitute such a large price difference.

fwiw all the v3+ full suspension bikes are USD $2800 and up. Legend is USD $3000. (frame only prices)
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
that alone wouldn't constitute such a large price difference.

fwiw all the v3+ full suspension bikes are USD $2800 and up. Legend is USD $3000. (frame only prices)
Not claiming that all of the price difference stems from higher production cost. Economics of scale for sure play a role. It's just a mix of those 2 not just 1.

The Legend in 2010 was nearly 2x the price of a Spitfire and that was the time when DH bikes were much more popular (and trailbikes were less popular so the gap in production volume was smaller)
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout
Not claiming that all of the price difference stems from higher production cost. Economics of scale for sure play a role. It's just a mix of those 2 not just 1.

The Legend in 2010 was nearly 2x the price of a Spitfire and that was the time when DH bikes were much more popular (and trailbikes were less popular so the gap in production volume was smaller)
agreed that its both aspects.

2010 was a crazy time.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,190
19,156
Canaderp
Yeah but that was not my point. The higher cost wasn't just economics of scale. Legend has Ti pivot axles and that forged/cnc'd shock basket other Banshee bikes don't have. Those 2 alone increase the price even if the production volume was the same as on enduro bikes.
All the banshee bikes have that forged shock basket now. :)

And they can all fit a water bottle. Except the Legend of course. :D
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
All the banshee bikes have that forged shock basket now. :)

And they can all fit a water bottle. Except the Legend of course. :D
Maybe it's the size of the forged thing? Or maybe it's just TI + Scale as Jon suggests. I remember I was one of the people who preordered the Legend so I was quite aware of their production process (and delay process) at the time and it seemed quite complicated then.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,190
19,156
Canaderp
Maybe it's the size of the forged thing? Or maybe it's just TI + Scale as Jon suggests. I remember I was one of the people who preordered the Legend so I was quite aware of their production process (and delay process) at the time and it seemed quite complicated then.
Well one of the cost factors is still going to be the scale at which the Legends are manufactured. It has its own shock cage and most likely tube set, and with so few produced the costs will be that much more.

I have no actual knowledge or basis of this, but I bet the other models also share tubing. Like I'm guessing the Rune and Titan tubing is the same.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Well one of the cost factors is still going to be the scale at which the Legends are manufactured. It has its own shock cage and most likely tube set, and with so few produced the costs will be that much more.

I have no actual knowledge or basis of this, but I bet the other models also share tubing. Like I'm guessing the Rune and Titan tubing is the same.
True. I remember Titan shared Tubing with one of the frames when it was first prototyped.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout
Well one of the cost factors is still going to be the scale at which the Legends are manufactured. It has its own shock cage and most likely tube set, and with so few produced the costs will be that much more.

I have no actual knowledge or basis of this, but I bet the other models also share tubing. Like I'm guessing the Rune and Titan tubing is the same.
i'm pretty sure the all the other FS frames from banshee have been updated since the current iteration of the legend was released
 

Avy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2006
1,119
374
Because F-you. Sliding dropouts maybe for different tire sizes so you can put a smaller one in there and put the wheel closer, but IME, sliding dropouts are a horrible way to do this. My $500 chinese frame has two dropout positions, one for big tires and one for really big tires (the biggest they make). There are two brake mounts and switching everything takes less than 5 min.
That’s Interesting,so the bike would ride the same no matter where you put Rim in the adjustable drop out correct? I assume that is determined by the length of the Bottom Chainstay?

I like the idea of you’re frame JM,now I wonder how does the Brake mount location work on a sliding dropout?

I would like one location being able to fit largest tire with Ritchey Droputs. I do not want sliding dropouts,bad idea IMHO. Trying to put too many options and making people happy. KISS.

And that stupid bolt in the chain stays again? WTF? For that price? This ain’t right to me.

JM,who could make AVY a Steel Frame with Richey Drop Outs Proper and a Steel Fork? Custom of Course.
I want a True Feeling of the Bike with different Tires being my Squish. That would be Sick. It does not have to have the Ritchey DO’s.

Avy off to See If Ritchey makes a Fatty.

Avy
 
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6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,827
13,063
OK,who can build Avy this Bike?

Avy
 

Avy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2006
1,119
374
That thing is Beast,nice 6th,never heard of them.

Avy
 

Avy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2006
1,119
374
That thing is Beast,nice 6th,never heard of them.

Avy
Looking at that Beast 6th,I am wondering if anyone makes a steel fork that wide? I would not want Any rack mounts on that Carbon fork. Just a pure fork. I do not trust a Carbon Fork really. Though I have never ran one. I was thinkin Carbon Rims,I read they are stiff as hell. I thought they would be supple but strong? That being said,I’d rock them for weight savings for sure. I’d have to ask a million questions on the rim and hub option? So many choices?

Funny where that company is from. That Bike is perfect for them and their Mad Winters. The owner must be from a MotorCross background. The Front Brake cable routing threw me a curve till I seen why.

Avy
 

Avy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2006
1,119
374
A lot of fat bikes come with carbon forks now, probably no issue.

Surly makes some steel forks.

Yeah,I was thinkin more high end. That Fork is nice,just I want it clean again. Just a straight blade. I am not going out campin. Just a dream anyways.

Avy
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,852
9,557
AK
That thing is Beast,nice 6th,never heard of them.

Avy
That is the same company as Wolftooth. The Otso can take pretty large tires, at least D5s, so some people like that for the narrower BB, but the new one can take the biggest big without the 120mm BB of other bikes.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,852
9,557
AK
A lot of fat bikes come with carbon forks now, probably no issue.

Surly makes some steel forks.

Carbon fork makes a big difference in lofting the front end up and over...well, anything. The difference in how this feels between a 1.5lb carbon fork and a 5lb steel fork is huge. I've ran both and the biggest selling is how much lighter and easier it makes the front end. Some of the bigger beefier carbon forks are more like 2lbs and crazy strong to carry racks and stuff, like the Salsa Kingpin.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,456
388

Interesting take on a pedalable dh bike from Paul Aston/Egerie. Like a starling and a geometron had a baby. Pinion/steel&Ti construction/super tall bars/custom tune dorado/ some other odd stuff in there too
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,719
Australia
and paul will undoubtably go on (at length) how his is the best bike in the world, and everything else is unrideable shit.
I listened to a podcast with him on it a little while ago and holy hell does that guy know better than everyone ever and anyone is disagrees is wrong.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout

Interesting take on a pedalable dh bike from Paul Aston/Egerie. Like a starling and a geometron had a baby. Pinion/steel&Ti construction/super tall bars/custom tune dorado/ some other odd stuff in there too
i didn't even need to read the article to know who's bike that was once i saw the ass master cock blaster saddle angle.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,456
388
Just checked on Paul Astons site and I applaud him trying to review as a neutral - it really seems like the upfront cost of buying equipment and then having it fail during the review process is going to sink the ship soon
 

troy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
1,006
739

Interesting take on a pedalable dh bike from Paul Aston/Egerie. Like a starling and a geometron had a baby. Pinion/steel&Ti construction/super tall bars/custom tune dorado/ some other odd stuff in there too
When was it? 10 years ago? I'm always ahead of the time man. :D
1680126838376.jpeg
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,998
702
SLO
His GEO was pretty ahead of its time. Not sure about a LONG-TUBED Ti bike that is 39LBS with a gearbox. Just guessing that has more flex than any Circus Performer or Politician......
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,232
20,015
Sleazattle
His GEO was pretty ahead of its time. Not sure about a LONG-TUBED Ti bike that is 39LBS with a gearbox. Just guessing that has more flex than any Circus Performer or Politician......
No idea what size tubes he is using but having ridden a bike with a 50+mm diameter ti downtube they can be plenty stiff, possible too stiff
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
No idea what size tubes he is using but having ridden a bike with a 50+mm diameter ti downtube they can be plenty stiff, possible too stiff
Agreed. My last 3 hardtails all rode very differently. I had a Stanton ti frame that was stiff and direct, and then I switched to a Stanton 853 frame that was comfortable and damped. And now I am on a Turner Ti frame that is both comfortable and lively. My opinion after all this is that ti is an awesome material to build a great riding trail hardtail with but to me it loses its appeal when you start overbuilding them to make an "enduro" hardtail etc... You can build them to be stiff as shit, but that takes away the ride quality that makes it ride so well.