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Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
41,902
19,226
Riding the baggage carousel.
$tinkle said:
they're everwhere!!!

he also believes jesus rose from the dead - literally!!!

bachmann's a footnote & married to a beard.
bho's the most powerful man in God's universe, and feels God in such an intense manner he sees fit to tell us all about it.

i'm afraid your fear is lacking truth & conviction
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You know as well as I do that no one gets elected in this country and elected to office without an appeal to the mouth breathers confessing ones love of the all-seeing-eye-in-the-sky.
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Pesqueeb said:
You know as well as I do that no one gets elected in this country and elected to office without an appeal to the mouth breathers confessing ones love of the all-seeing-eye-in-the-sky.
Click to expand...
then why does he continue to do it *after* being elected? does he now shucking & jiving for mammon?
 
Kevin

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Sep 6, 2004
4,540
1,007
In Holland sticking my finger in a dike...
$tinkle said:
they're everwhere!!!

he also believes jesus rose from the dead - literally!!!

bachmann's a footnote & married to a beard.
bho's the most powerful man in God's universe, and feels God in such an intense manner he sees fit to tell us all about it.

i'm afraid your fear is lacking truth & conviction
Click to expand...
Not exactly the same ballpark. :brow:
But if you want to know, I think anyone who believes in a personal god, like the ones from the Abrahamic faiths is an insult to human intelligence. Obama included.

Hows that for truth and conviction?
 
Kevin

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Sep 6, 2004
4,540
1,007
In Holland sticking my finger in a dike...
Here you go.
Charles Darwin said:
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[19][20][21] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin.[22] Others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[23]

Historian Gregg L. Frazer argues that the leading Founders (Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Wilson, Morris, Madison, Hamilton, and Washington) were neither Christians nor Deists, but rather supporters of a hybrid "theistic rationalism".[24]
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Richard Dawkins said:
"It is conventional to assume that the Founding Fathers of the American Republic were deists. No doubt many of them were, although it has been argued that the greatest of them might have been atheists. Certainly their writings on religion in their own time leave me in no doubt that most of them would have been atheists in ours. But whatever their individual religious views in their own time, the one thing they collectively were is secularists."...

Thomas Jefferson:
"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust."

TJ: "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus."

(In a letter to his nephew, Peter Carr):
TJ: "Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

TJ: "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."

TJ: "The priests of the different religious sects ... dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight, and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subdivision of the duperies on which they live."

Ben Franklin:
"Lighthouses are more useful than churches."

James Madison:
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

John Adams:
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
JA "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"

and in a letter from Adams to Jefferson,
JA "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved - the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced."

Stated in a treaty with Tripoli, drafted in 1796 under George Washington and signed by John Adams in 1797:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
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$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
so you quote dawkins *mis*-quoting & somehow that's a /thread?

just one example:
tj said:
Those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy, -- the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man, -- endeavored
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Kevin

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Sep 6, 2004
4,540
1,007
In Holland sticking my finger in a dike...
$tinkle said:
so you quote dawkins *mis*-quoting & somehow that's a /thread?

just one example:
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No you are totally missing the point that all the other quotes make.
Youve allready pointed out that TJ quote in your previous reply. How about the rest of them?
And how about the conclusions drawn from these quotes that they were at least secularists?

Your republican distraction defense tricks dont work on me.
 
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stevew

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,177
10,109
i wish there was a country called idontgiveafvckistan....i'd move there in a heart beat.
 
Andyman_1970

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
Kevin said:
And how about the conclusions drawn from these quotes that they were at least secularists?
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I have no doubt that TJ, BF and GW were Christians, but Christianity in the mid to late 1700's was a FAR different system than what we have now. Most conservative evangelical churches would not let these fellas darken their door if they know what they believed and did.
 
Kevin

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Sep 6, 2004
4,540
1,007
In Holland sticking my finger in a dike...
Andyman_1970 said:
I have no doubt that TJ, BF and GW were Christians, but Christianity in the mid to late 1700's was a FAR different system than what we have now. Most conservative evangelical churches would not let these fellas darken their door if they know what they believed and did.
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No doubt they were, or at least told people they were. Closet atheisme is not exclusive to these times.
The difference is that back then people used to burn atheists on the stake, now they just keep them out of congress.
But we have every reason to believe the founding fathers were secularists regarding church and state issues, something that is deliberatly overlooked these days by many a theocrat.
 
F

fortenndu

Turbo Monkey
Apr 22, 2008
1,573
0
Boone, NC
Our founding fathers understood that the King James bible was a political tool. It's a re-write of a translation of a translation of partial texts; the goal of the re-write was to create a book that could be used as the crown saw fit. I would argue that most founding fathers clearly understood the dangers associated with the masses misinterpreting religious ideas. Most Americans along with and stinkle do not understand this. Separation of Church and State goes both ways for ****s sake.
 
Andyman_1970

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
Yeah I've gotten into many a debate about this, even had one friend try to get me to read what passes as "history" for some evangelicals, books by David Barton.

My biggest beef is: I don't give a crap if the Consitution doesn't talk about the separation of church and state, as a Christian their highest authority shouldn't be the Constitution but the teachings of Jesus. No where does He teach that Christians are suppose to form their own government and such, He actually teaches against striving for worldly positions of power. That's my problem with these Chrsitians who seem to think the US was suppose to be a Christian nation, it's not that they misinterpret the Constitution, it's that they clearly dismiss a teaching of Jesus. Although the fact that they do both is not surprising.

It just now clicked about the KJV I'll have to dig into that, some folks around think Jesus and Paul actually spoke that way...........not kidding.
 
$tinkle

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
fortenndu said:
Most Americans along with and stinkle do not understand this. Separation of Church and State goes both ways for ****s sake.
Click to expand...
i've always understood this.
b/c if sarah palin can't save us from the marauding hoards of muslims, i'll be converted at the point of a spear
 
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