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Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,976
22,015
Sleazattle
boostindoubles said:
The camps over here aren't nearly as sophisticated. Those Seattle camps are high class. I'd be proud to know that talented craftsmen with access to wood working tools were populating the streets.
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Someone built a house with a full concrete and stone foundation off of an I-5 onramp near me. Was pretty much hidden until it caught fire and took out the WSDOT land and a bunch of peoples back yards.

Seattle FD respond to an average of 3 fires per day in homeless camps, a recent one started from a meth lab and exposed a safe with a few hundred thousand dollars in it. Will be fun when one takes out a section of I-5 or I-90,
 
jstuhlman

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
17,332
14,160
Cackalacka du Nord
Westy said:
The city will let that go on for a while then spend millions of dollars to clean up the sites, more money than it would have cost for rent for the people who lived there. I think a good percentage of the population here looks at our homeless camps with pride, a reflection of their compassion and open-mindedness while we piss large sums of money away not directly addressing the problem. Even worse they become zero enforcement zones so chop shops, sex trafficking, meth labs and fencing elements move in having little to do with the actual homeless creating further squalor, crime, and resentment from the general public. A perfect environment for cottage industries serving the homeless and patting ones own back while making the problem worse. Meanwhile Washington finally has a capital gains tax earmarked for other things while we increase housing costs to try to pay for low cost housing.

And it just isn't Seattle, things are much worse in much cheaper Everett and I can see a lot of tents just off of I-90 East of the Cascades.
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tell me again about why you left virginia? :rofl:
 
E

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
893
292
Westy said:
The city will let that go on for a while then spend millions of dollars to clean up the sites, more money than it would have cost for rent for the people who lived there. I think a good percentage of the population here looks at our homeless camps with pride, a reflection of their compassion and open-mindedness while we piss large sums of money away not directly addressing the problem. Even worse they become zero enforcement zones so chop shops, sex trafficking, meth labs and fencing elements move in having little to do with the actual homeless creating further squalor, crime, and resentment from the general public. A perfect environment for cottage industries serving the homeless and patting ones own back while making the problem worse. Meanwhile Washington finally has a capital gains tax earmarked for other things while we increase housing costs to try to pay for low cost housing.

And it just isn't Seattle, things are much worse in much cheaper Everett and I can see a lot of tents just off of I-90 East of the Cascades.
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Directly addressing the problem would be (?):

-Investing in social services programs to prevent people from winding up homeless and providing a pathway out
-Investing in mental health care
-Investing in safe, affordable/free housing

What can be done in the near term to address these camps?
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,149
13,358
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
ebarker9 said:
Directly addressing the problem would be (?):

-Investing in social services programs to prevent people from winding up homeless and providing a pathway out
-Investing in mental health care
-Investing in safe, affordable/free housing

What can be done in the near term to address these camps?
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reinstate labor laws gutted from the 80s on, get VC money out of the housing market, and fucking tax rich people again


You know.....all the things that boomers call "boot straps"

In the immediate future, break into every house sitting vacant and live there.
 
boostindoubles

boostindoubles

Nacho Libre
Mar 16, 2004
8,398
6,923
Yakistan
kidwoo said:
reinstate labor laws gutted from the 80s on, get VC money out of the housing market, and fucking tax rich people again


You know.....all the things that boomers call "boot straps"

In the immediate future, break into every house sitting vacant and live there.
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You gonna run around barefoot and start stealing airplanes also?
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,976
22,015
Sleazattle
ebarker9 said:
Directly addressing the problem would be (?):
Click to expand...
For the most part simply being more pro-active on the issue. The city makes no attempt to remove a camps until they get big and horrific for the people living there and the surrounding neighborhood. And that usually requires a massive fire, murder or a rape or two. By law the city cannot remove anyone unless they can offer them shelter, so shelter is reserved for camp cleanups. A homeless person seeking help may have to suffer through horrible conditions for years before becoming eligible. And then the clean up costs are astronomical as they pretty much become Haz Mat sites, that money could serve people a lot better if that went to social services and not the garbage mafia.

And while the city allows people to live in camps, no basic hygiene services are offered. The concept of being homeless is not illegal has turned into don't enforce any laws around homeless camps. Criminal elements move in to prey on the homeless use it as cover for their activities. There have been chops shops, child sex trafficking rings, meth labs and open air stolen goods and drug markets are common and blatantly obvious . So if you are going to allow a camp to exist, offer basic services like water, shitters and garbage pick up, provide basic policing for blatantly obvious criminal activity to protect the residents of the camps and surrounding neighborhoods, when they get out of control clean them up quickly so people don't have to suffer in squalor for long periods of time.

Seattle is expensive but isn't like San Francisco where entry level tech bros are living in RVs because they can't afford to live. We have the highest minimum wage in the country, I don't want to try but I could have my own place in my neighborhood working a minimum wage job. I think the magnitude of the problem here has as much to do with enabling people at their lowest points as much as socioeconomic realities. Seattle treats the homeless population a lot like garden hermits.

 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,149
13,358
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
Westy said:
For the most part simply being more pro-active on the issue. The city makes no attempt to remove a camps until they get big and horrific for the people living there and the surrounding neighborhood. And that usually requires a massive fire, murder or a rape or two. By law the city cannot remove anyone unless they can offer them shelter, so shelter is reserved for camp cleanups. A homeless person seeking help may have to suffer through horrible conditions for years before becoming eligible. And then the clean up costs are astronomical as they pretty much become Haz Mat sites, that money could serve people a lot better if that went to social services and not the garbage mafia.

And while the city allows people to live in camps, no basic hygiene services are offered. The concept of being homeless is not illegal has turned into don't enforce any laws around homeless camps. Criminal elements move in to prey on the homeless use it as cover for their activities. There have been chops shops, child sex trafficking rings, meth labs and open air stolen goods and drug markets are common and blatantly obvious . So if you are going to allow a camp to exist, offer basic services like water, shitters and garbage pick up, provide basic policing for blatantly obvious criminal activity to protect the residents of the camps and surrounding neighborhoods, when they get out of control clean them up quickly so people don't have to suffer in squalor for long periods of time.

Seattle is expensive but isn't like San Francisco where entry level tech bros are living in RVs because they can't afford to live. We have the highest minimum wage in the country, I don't want to try but I could have my own place in my neighborhood working a minimum wage job. I think the magnitude of the problem here has as much to do with enabling people at their lowest points as much as socioeconomic realities. Seattle treats the homeless population a lot like garden hermits.

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have you seen those self-washing bathrooms in SF?

If city leaders had a clue they'd at minimum pay for porta potties and maintenance. Instead it falls on volunteers and non-profits that no one cares about.

You're describing silicon valley as SF, kind of like saying bellvue is seattle. Which is something I know tRuE sEaTtLiTeS lose their collective shit over.....calling anything seattle that's not within city limits.

Both regions suffer from the same nonsense. Until housing is treated as the basic human right of shelter and not just another investment opportunity for people who don't need another one, none of this ever goes away or changes. This will never be successfully dealt with by treating symptoms.

The clusterfucking and chaos you describe is all a direct reflection of feeling the need to present some sort of compassion, while actually doing more harm in the long run. Rich white people never know how to fix anything. And that's who runs cities (along with the autonomous cop fucks)
 
Westy

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,976
22,015
Sleazattle
kidwoo said:
The clusterfucking and chaos you describe is all a direct reflection of feeling the need to present some sort of compassion, while actually doing more harm in the long run.
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Why I mentioned enabling above, or how to go to bed feeling good about yourself while someone 500 yards away live in conditions that would make someone living in a 3rd world favella shudder. The fatality rate amongst the homeless here is about 2%. Probably closer to double that considering most of them are people living outside. The vast majority of that being from overdoses. Yet people here will claim addiction and mental health doesn't cause homelessness.
 
Changleen

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,719
2,706
Pōneke
I think @ebarker9 has it right. The cheapest way to solve homelessness is to literally give people housing and support services. Helsinki has tried it and it works.

www.theguardian.com

'It’s a miracle': Helsinki's radical solution to homelessness

Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is falling. Its secret? Giving people homes as soon as they need them – unconditionally
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

“We decided to make the housing unconditional,” says Kaakinen. “To say, look, you don’t need to solve your problems before you get a home. Instead, a home should be the secure foundation that makes it easier to solve your problems.”
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kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,149
13,358
Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
Changleen said:
I think @ebarker9 has it right. The cheapest way to solve homelessness is to literally give people housing and support services. Helsinki has tried it and it works.

www.theguardian.com

'It’s a miracle': Helsinki's radical solution to homelessness

Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is falling. Its secret? Giving people homes as soon as they need them – unconditionally
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Blue state california did the same thing during the pandemic, covering hotels. People got jobs and got on their feet.

Then gov hairdo said okay fuck y'all we ain't skeerd of dirty people infecting us anymore so back on the streets bitches, we got money to make.

Now we're back to cop sweeps and having the same dumb conversations again. With "the homeless question"
 
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