[-BB-]

AARRGGHHH....




I was working on my cranks Friday night and I ended up stripping my crank-bolt on my Raceface Deus cranks. I called them this morning to see if I could get a replacement bolt and bscause I was an individual, not a "shop", they wouldn't even talk to me about it. All he would say is "we don't sell direct to customers. Go through your LBS."

I DON"T HAVE AN LBS you #&$%@#$@%

Yes, there are shops around here that sell RF stuff, but I do almost all my wrenching myself, and I havent' bought anything from an LBS in ages except maybe a tube and a bottle of lube. Now you expect them to give a #%^& about my issue? All I need is a stupid little bolt!!

The issue is that I have a buddy who is supposed to come down here next weekend and I want to have my bike up and running by then. If they could send the bolt directly, I'll bet I would have it on time. If I have to go through a shop I'm sure it will take them much longer and I doubt I'll have it by Friday.

Totally stupid IMO since they probably had a billion of those bolts sitting right on their desk when I was talking to them, but NO… they can't just send me one… Even if they charged me $10 I would be cool with that. Just get it to me in a timely manner!!


Why would they want me to have to go to my LBS except becasue it is less work for them?!?! It isn't like I'm suddenly going to stop doing my own work, or buy all my stuff through my LBS... It is just extra work for the LBS for no $$, extra gas for me to drive there to tell them and again to pick it up, and I won't have the bike working for much longer.


AARRGGG!!! So PISSED OFF!!!
Doesn't help that my finger still hurts from slamming it into the frame when the bolt stripped. Funny thing is that I was even using a torque wrench and I was UNDER the rec specs when it happened.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

You and GolgiaApparatus could totally be like BBFLs, LOL!

 

[jonKranked]

once again, ridemonkey to the rescue:

http://www.bikeman.com/RaceFace_Crank_Arm_Fixing_Bolts.html

edit: I think its this one:

http://www.bikeman.com/CR8250.html

 

[mccdh]

I wouldn't call it poor customer service, its more like a company policy YOU don't agree with. How many other big name companies ie Shimano, Sram etc sell privately to consumers? Any? Most people that I know don't do that much personal wrenching so I would think they are a minority in the industry which would cause the lack of need for individual sales, amongst other reasons. Just my two cents...but quit whining about it and go to the shop like every other person out there. Sorry if that hurt but I had to say it.

 

[-BB-]

You and GolgiaApparatus could totally be like BBFLs, LOL!

Plus we are both Phish-heads.

 

[-BB-]

once again, ridemonkey to the rescue:

http://www.bikeman.com/RaceFace_Crank_Arm_Fixing_Bolts.html

edit: I think its this one:

http://www.bikeman.com/CR8250.html

I went with this one instead:
http://www.bikeman.com/CR8252.html

Same thing but steel instead of aluminum. They were out of the aluminum one but the Chat-guy said that the steel was in stock. I'd rather have that anyway. Thanks for the heads up on the site in general though.

 

[John P.]

Irony. -BB- is doesn't have a local shop and Bikeman is MY local shop. Didn't realize how lucky I am.

 

[-BB-]

I wouldn't call it poor customer service, its more like a company policy YOU don't agree with. How many other big name companies ie Shimano, Sram etc sell privately to consumers? Any? Most people that I know don't do that much personal wrenching so I would think they are a minority in the industry which would cause the lack of need for individual sales, amongst other reasons. Just my two cents...but quit whining about it and go to the shop like every other person out there. Sorry if that hurt but I had to say it.

I had to do that once before for an Ironhorse piece (shock bolts/spacers). I went in and spoke to the Mgr and he said he would order it. I called every week asking if it was in yet and the "lowers" would just say it was on its way. After about a month I went in again and spoke to the Mgr. He said he had no clue what I was talking about and that it had never been ordered.

If you don't spend $$ at the LBS, they treat you like @#$%^#$.
I understand that they aren't making $$ off this, so they have less motivation to help out. I have no issue with this, as I souldn't expect them to jump through hoops to help someone not bringing in revenue. It isn't like I bought a part online and then expected them to install it or fix it. I'm being FORCED to go through them. Well not any more now that I have the links above.

I'd rather pay the $$ to know that it has been ordered and that I will get the part I need in a timely manner.

The only "shop" I go to is a local (industry) guy that doens't sell anything, and I only go to him for more complicated suff that I can't do myself (custom tunes and stuff).

 

[-BB-]

Irony. -BB- is doesn't have a local shop and Bikeman is MY local shop. Didn't realize how lucky I am.

Hey John!! how's it going? haven't talked to you in quite a while. You still at Evil (post DW selling it)?

Still riding that Bullit?

 

[boogenman]

You will not find many large companies like RF that will sell/warranty product or parts directly to the consumer.

 

[time-bomb]

Hmmmm, this kind of surprises me. I bent a crank "JRA" and called them about it. They gave me an RA# and I was able to send my crank to them directly from my home address. I got a replacement crank and they sent me my old, bent one back which I was able to polish and make a killer medallion out of for my chain to wear around my neck. I had a new crank and I looked pimp and only paid for shipping. Maybe their policy has changed since then as I had this experience about 4 years ago.

 

[boogenman]

What is JRA?

 

[sanjuro]

I wouldn't call it poor customer service, its more like a company policy YOU don't agree with. How many other big name companies ie Shimano, Sram etc sell privately to consumers? Any? Most people that I know don't do that much personal wrenching so I would think they are a minority in the industry which would cause the lack of need for individual sales, amongst other reasons. Just my two cents...but quit whining about it and go to the shop like every other person out there. Sorry if that hurt but I had to say it.

But I don't admire Shimano's customer service policy.

I think the warranty-lbs relationship is out-dated. If someone wants something straightforward, then give it to him.

 

[Jeremy R]

The only "shop" I go to is a local (industry) guy that doens't sell anything, and I only go to him for more complicated suff that I can't do myself.

Like tightening up your crank bolts without stripping them.

 

[Westy]

I'm convinced he raceface crank bolts are designed to strip out. Super fine aluminium threads.

 

[LMC]

JRA just riding along

 

[time-bomb]

What is JRA?

What he said - above.

When ever something breaks and the warranty guy asks you what you were doing the response is always: JRA.

"I swear, I don't know how I blew out my front fork and cracked my headtube, I was just riding along and oil started gushing everywhere." :biggrin:

 

[Salami]

What is JRA?

Don't let the others fool you. It means "ten foot drop to flat".

 

[Brian HCM#1]

I blame steroids!

 

[Huck Banzai]

Forget about buying from them; you're looking for support and some customer service. I recently had the misfortune of trying to get some information from a RS rep at SRAM, and kept getting vague - lawyerish, stonewalled answers. I dont put it on RS in general, but this rep was evasive and seemed annoyed at being approached at all.

On that note, ANY mfr I have ever dealt with directly INCLUDING RS in the past, has been willing to provide small parts or information readily, and often free of charge.

Free parts from King, Manitou, Turner, Jamis, Santa Cruz, Profile, 661, RS, and *(drumroll)* RaceFace, who dealt directly with me in replacing a damaged Prodigy DH crank arm - NOT under WARRANTY - I think I paid 25$ for Drive side arm shipped.


if there's a moral to my story, its be nice and cooperative and mostly reasonable and you can get what you need, often more! (Turner sent me a complete 100$ bearing/bushing kit for an 05 DHR por Gratis!) -- however, sometimes you hit a wall and need to try again later w/ someone else.

SC seems to tolerate craziness from me, but since im on my 5th frame since 03, they let me sliiiiide.

 

[DirtyMike]

I thnk they wanted you to go to to theLBS more for the reason that they probably had one in stock. On top of that, alot of the big companies just are not setup to bill directly in the first place. IE They dont have a CC machine to bill you by CC. Hell alot of them dont like to deal direct with a non dealer shop, thats when the shop gets.... Call QBP/BTI/SBS ETC. This isnt the only industry that is like this. Somethings you just need to suck it up, and realize they are not going to change.





Oh, and for the record, I rather you buy your parts online and have me install them rather than think I dont want that. I really could give a **** were you get your parts from. Bottom line is, I rather you be in my shop buying your shoes so you can try them on, buying food products, buying those lubes, getting those products that you jsut dont feel comfortable dealing with on an internet purchase. There is still alot of money to be made from the customer that is the Internet buyer.

 

[sAFETY]

Oh, and for the record, I rather you buy your parts online and have me install them rather than think I dont want that. I really could give a **** were you get your parts from. Bottom line is, I rather you be in my shop buying your shoes so you can try them on, buying food products, buying those lubes, getting those products that you jsut dont feel comfortable dealing with on an internet purchase. There is still alot of money to be made from the customer that is the Internet buyer.

You're a rarity in this world sir, someone who works in an LBS but also understands the realities of the modern internet economy. Cheers to you.

 

[gemini2k]

I thnk they wanted you to go to to theLBS more for the reason that they probably had one in stock. On top of that, alot of the big companies just are not setup to bill directly in the first place. IE They dont have a CC machine to bill you by CC. Hell alot of them dont like to deal direct with a non dealer shop, thats when the shop gets.... Call QBP/BTI/SBS ETC. This isnt the only industry that is like this. Somethings you just need to suck it up, and realize they are not going to change.

The funny thing is, when we order from BTI (to the shop), its sometimes only 1 or 2 small parts, AND we use our personal credit cards (shop employees that is). So I don't buy this whole "not set up to deal with individual customers" BS. I've also been able to order very small personal orders from nearly every mfg I've tried (I don't think its been that many though). Nearly every shop I've been to is totally useless for anything DH/FR specific, even if they've been nice guys, most shops aren't in a hurry to order your individual bolt/bearing/spring/etc. for your DH bike.

 

[nmpearson]

yeah most shops are fairly useless as far as dh/fr. my shop does our best...but even though i'm the owner of a shop, raceface has treated me like s*it in the past also. i just tell people to buy shimano and truvativ. as far as the part goes, it really couldn't hurt to call a lbs, there's so much random stuff that ends up in a bikeshop, i wouldn't be surprised if one is just lying around. we just found a bike today that we didn't know was there. i have no idea who's it is...so odd things have happened

 

[slowitdown]

come on people. it's a practical situation with a practical explanation.

how many parts does RF sell per year?

imagine every one of those parts going to a customer who decides he/she has a need for individual attention.

the vast majority of MTB owners do not know how to do mechanical work. a lot of people do that work on their own bikes, but a lot of them do not know how to do it. ask any LBS wrench who's been working on bikes for more than a couple years -- you'll hear all sorts of stuff about people thinking they knew how to work on a bike and making the bike WORSE by hamfisting things.

I know this personally because when I started riding MTBs a long time ago, I was one of those morons who thought he could just "figure out" how things worked and fix them by "figuring things out" -- after all, it's only a bicycle, how tough could it be? right?

no, not right. the fact that a bicycle doesn't look like a v-8 car engine doesn't mean that it's simple.

now, take all the hamfisted Barneys who screw up the RF parts they buy and install. imagine they all want individual attention from RF.

RF's business is not designed to sell directly to consumers. It is designed to sell to retailers and LBS's. These middle men are a filter for customer problems, and that's how RF has set up its business.

if RF were to take on all end users directly, it would have to hire a herd of people to do nothing but take calls from Barney Hamfist and Joey Knucklehead, and most of those calls would take a lot of time because Barney and Joey don't know jack sh!t about working on a bike. RF staff would end up having to do a treatise on bicycle mechanics. that's not the business they're in. they make parts. they don't teach people how to install them beyond providing instructions -- instructions that most Barney Hamfists and Joey Knuckleheads IGNORE.

don't blame RF.

 

[NateH]

Race Face isn't that cool, but what is even less cool is going to be the day when good bike shops start closing their doors because no one supported them and then everyone is up a creek when they need some info or some part in stock. Buying on the internet is all good and yes some shops can't help much in the DH world, but find a good one and throw them a bone every once in a while. In the end it will keep good people employed, save you time and money, and make your bike work better. Just as an example, i'm sure you got a great deal on those cranks, but if you had bought them from my shop we would have gladly given you the bolt you speak of (which we have in stock) and got ya running. Two sides to every story.

 

[jonKranked]

The funny thing is, when we order from BTI (to the shop), its sometimes only 1 or 2 small parts, AND we use our personal credit cards (shop employees that is). So I don't buy this whole "not set up to deal with individual customers" BS. I've also been able to order very small personal orders from nearly every mfg I've tried (I don't think its been that many though). Nearly every shop I've been to is totally useless for anything DH/FR specific, even if they've been nice guys, most shops aren't in a hurry to order your individual bolt/bearing/spring/etc. for your DH bike.

He was referring to a company like Race Face not being set up to handle CC's, not distributors like BTI. Most companies don't want the head ache of dealing directly with consumers. Because once they start dealing with one consumer, it becomes a few more, then a few more, then it snowballs into the majority of their user base. This is why they filter these kinds of things through the LBS. IDK about you, but I'd rather have a company like RF not waste their time dealing with consumers, when they have more important things to do, like design and manufacture bike parts.

 

[Huck Banzai]

Race Face had no problem accepting my CC. I have never been turned away by any mfr on a small part or repair issue. There may be more (or less) to this story, but really...

Come on people, dont excuse poor customer service, and put it on 'hamfisted mechanics'; the notion that shop wrenches (in general) are qualified or capable is regularly defeated by experience! There are plenty of good mechanics around, but dont get it twisted.

The nature of markets, be they materials or services, is if you accept it (their performance/model) - thats all you get. Dont settle and make excuses for them, and they will have to step up.


Im going to call RF now and get my free crank bolt - WHAT!

 

[gemini2k]

He was referring to a company like Race Face not being set up to handle CC's, not distributors like BTI. Most companies don't want the head ache of dealing directly with consumers. Because once they start dealing with one consumer, it becomes a few more, then a few more, then it snowballs into the majority of their user base. This is why they filter these kinds of things through the LBS. IDK about you, but I'd rather have a company like RF not waste their time dealing with consumers, when they have more important things to do, like design and manufacture bike parts.

I was also referring to MFG.'s. I have ordered small parts directly from various mfg.'s directly in the past with no problems. Also, shops aren't really any more streamlined of a distribution channel than directly to the customer. The shop is still gonna have to call to talk to raceface, still pay with a credit card, still buy one 1 individual small part, and probably mess it up one or twice along the way. It's not like shipping to a shop instead of a home is any easier or cheaper? There's no reason not to deal directly with customers. It's probably easy in any case where the customer isn't a total jack-off

 

[DirtyMike]

You're a rarity in this world sir, someone who works in an LBS but also understands the realities of the modern internet economy. Cheers to you.

Not to brag, but that is probably one of the bigger reason Our shop made the 43 best shop in the US last year. It seems to me, the bigger shops realize this, its the Ma and Pa shops that really dont get this, once they get past it, they tend to grow. The big part about it that shop owners miss about that attitude is, even though they are maybe not making much n=money of installing internet parts, that Int shopper is still a shopper, and if they tell their friends the shop they went to is a bunch of assholes, their friends tell theier friends the same thing, and so on, Like it or not, word of mouth is your best, and your worst advertisement. You have to take good care of all the customers that walk in teh door.

The funny thing is, when we order from BTI (to the shop), its sometimes only 1 or 2 small parts, AND we use our personal credit cards (shop employees that is). So I don't buy this whole "not set up to deal with individual customers" BS. I've also been able to order very small personal orders from nearly every mfg I've tried (I don't think its been that many though). Nearly every shop I've been to is totally useless for anything DH/FR specific, even if they've been nice guys, most shops aren't in a hurry to order your individual bolt/bearing/spring/etc. for your DH bike.

See thats the big part people miss right there..... Thats the difference between manufactur's and Suppliers.

BTI, QBP SBS.... SUpplier

Race face... Manf

Manf dont like dealing direct, they sell to there dealers, which may be a shop, may be a big supplier. Alot of it has to do with how they bill, IE I am a Hancook dealer for my main job, they dont sell to the public, there billing is done three months at a time, and its always and they are paid by check, they do not sell direct, Goodyear is exactly the same way...All of them are. They just arent set up for small quantity orders. BTI.QBP/SBS Buy in bulk from teh MAnf, then sell peice by peice.

Your suppliers are set up for CC transactions, and they use cc transactions for normal business.

yeah most shops are fairly useless as far as dh/fr. my shop does our best...but even though i'm the owner of a shop, raceface has treated me like s*it in the past also. i just tell people to buy shimano and truvativ. as far as the part goes, it really couldn't hurt to call a lbs, there's so much random stuff that ends up in a bikeshop, i wouldn't be surprised if one is just lying around. we just found a bike today that we didn't know was there. i have no idea who's it is...so odd things have happened

The part about the FR/DH..... I see that alot. It really goes back to same thing it always has been..... What is popular in the area, and what type of riding are the guys/gals working/owning the shops are into. Lets face it, the world of FR and DH is still relativly small in the world of cycling compared to road, xc, and bmx.

 

[nmpearson]

fr/dh is getting so much more popular atleast in utah. people are starting to buy fr/dh bikes even though a ton of people haven't had a large biking background. it's surprising more shops don't try to do better but it's just hard trying to keep fr/dh stuff stocked because everyone has very specific preferences and it's hard to keep everything in stock. hope you get riding though this weekend

 

[DirtyMike]

fr/dh is getting so much more popular atleast in utah. people are starting to buy fr/dh bikes even though a ton of people haven't had a large biking background. it's surprising more shops don't try to do better but it's just hard trying to keep fr/dh stuff stocked because everyone has very specific preferences and it's hard to keep everything in stock. hope you get riding though this weekend

That is another very good point to remember. DH/FR really is on the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to what sells, and it sure seems to have the most variety in parts wants and needs.

As DH/FR becomes more popular, we will start seeing more and more shop owners/employees participating in the sport, the more parts we will start to see in teh shops, the more the people in the shops use the products the more they will be able to help the customers witht he differences, pros and cons of each. As that happens, tha parts will become more refined<which we are already seeing> and it will become more about what brand someone likes, not about how they work....well maybe thats a reach, but you see what I am getting at

 

[gemini2k]

Like I've said twice now...also done it with mfg.'s...

 

[-BB-]

I shelled out a little extra for 2-day shipping and ordered what I needed from Bikeman.com It went out yesterday, so I should have it tomorrow.
YEAH!!!

 

[-BB-]

yeah most shops are fairly useless as far as dh/fr. my shop does our best...but even though i'm the owner of a shop, raceface has treated me like s*it in the past also. i just tell people to buy shimano and truvativ. as far as the part goes, it really couldn't hurt to call a lbs, there's so much random stuff that ends up in a bikeshop, i wouldn't be surprised if one is just lying around. we just found a bike today that we didn't know was there. i have no idea who's it is...so odd things have happened

Oh yeah... that's what I did with my bike. I was passing through <your city> a while back and I totally forgot that I dropped my bike off while I was there.

I'll PM you my address and you can ship it back to me. I'll even pay the shipping.

irate2:

 

[DirtyMike]

Like I've said twice now...also done it with mfg.'s...

You work for a shop yeah?

 

[Huck Banzai]

You work for a shop yeah?

I dont, and never been turned down by any MFR.

As I said above - a little fuss with RS recently, but got what I wanted in the end!

 

[boxxerace]

if there's a moral to my story, its be nice and cooperative and mostly reasonable and you can get what you need, often more! (Turner sent me a complete 100$ bearing/bushing kit for an 05 DHR por Gratis!) -- however, sometimes you hit a wall and need to try again later w/ someone else.

SC seems to tolerate craziness from me, but since im on my 5th frame since 03, they let me sliiiiide.

I too have had GREAT customer service from Santa Cruz when looking for some small frame replacement parts (shock mount stuff). Good prices, got to talk to someone on the phone right away.

Between creating excellent, good looking bikes and the service, Santa Cruz has a customer for life.

 

[DirtyMike]

I dont, and never been turned down by any MFR.

As I said above - a little fuss with RS recently, but got what I wanted in the end!

Never been turned away from a Manf.? What Fuss with RS did they deal dircetly with, Other than maybe some small parts, Knobs ETC... they have always sent people to the LBS to have them send in or service for them before having it sent in.


Hell when I go to EP something from the Sram/Rockshox/Truvativ/Avid company, they tell me to go through QBP, they handle our EP, only thing they do for me is tech service.

 

[Huck Banzai]

Never been turned away from a Manf.? What Fuss with RS did they deal dircetly with, Other than maybe some small parts, Knobs ETC... they have always sent people to the LBS to have them send in or service for them before having it sent in.


Hell when I go to EP something from the Sram/Rockshox/Truvativ/Avid company, they tell me to go through QBP, they handle our EP, only thing they do for me is tech service.

1st - the Orig Topic was in pursuit of a small part!

2nd - Im not talking about service, I will service my own stuff. As I alluded to above, and clarify now: the overwhelming majority of shop mechanics are clueless hacks! Even the good ones only get to sit on my rides and coo about the tightness!

3rd - It was a whole fork that BTI and QBP (and SBS, and so on..) did not have in stock, and couldnt get despite the continued mantra from SRAM that "They're retail available, the suppliers just must not be stocking them." -- ignoring the conveyance of the comments from the suppliers that they would stock them if someone would provide! YES - they did initially try to brush me off and send me via LBS and Suppliers; honey laced persistence can defeat anything.

In the past (long ago) I got replacement ti bolt kit for a 95 Judy, cart replacements for 95 and 97 Judy's -- not much since then until now as I havent had any RS stuff. Avid swapped a sloppy Juicy 9 for me in 07.

Another clarification: If you accept this/dont demand service - the status quo is set - and thats the way it is. Dont! Demand service (politely and reasonably!) and make them raise the bar!