[davep]

All of turners listed weights are medium frames with the 'standard' shock IIRC. Whatever comes standard on that particular model, is included in the weight.

They (He is) are pretty good about not listing a weight until they have a production model to actually throw on a scale.

 

[norbar]

They were all current frames as of last year, with the exception of the 951 and DHR. Oh and when I say older DHR, I mean the '08 version with the round tubes, not the square tube style. I remember reading they shaved off maybe 2# from the square tube to the round tube frames?

Actually, a fair number of them are marketed as extra light, which is the funny part.

I tried to keep it simplified to larger production frames, except the Sinisters at the bottom just because I felt like it. Mondraker and Antidote aren't really in that category that I'm aware of. Feel free to post up weights though.

I tried to find a weight for a Demo 8 but couldn't. I didn't look real hard though.

Just to keep people happy:

Session 88 - 9.6#
Yeti 303 - 13.9#
Yeti 303R - 11.6#
Izimu - 10.4#
Demo 8 - 11.7# (can't confirm if that's with the shock or without)
Socom - 9.6#

The round tubed one was 10.7 if I remember right. As for demo I think it was 11.5. As for larger production is Sinister really a large production company? I'm quite sure Mondraker is bigger it simply isn't available in the us.
Also which one of them is marketed extra light? Most of them are marketed Light and Strong which in most cases means there are a compromise between the 2. Sinister claims they are the lightest so compare them to the other lightest frames.

Also you forgot bout the new glory

 

[Kanye West]

I didn't forget, I just didn't feel like looking back through old posts about it at the time. I still don't, so if you have a weight, please post it up.

Also I didn't say Sinister was a larger production model, and in fact I stated they're not. Just threw them in because I like them and I own one.

 

[norbar]

I was just suggesting that if trying to make a point you should include all the lightest frames. Didn't mean to sound offensive or sth, if I did then I'm sorry. (and If not than I'm paranoid)
Glory S came 4282g with seatclamp, shock and whatnot. There is a topic bout it here.

 

[frango]

But Nate's Glory M came about 4100g with stuff, which is kinda odd.

 

[verticult]

Calling people fanboys in that post seems kinda bold. Could you kindly enlighten me which frames are both expensive, heavy and weak? Also are there the only factors that make a good downhill frame in your opinion?

Well, I won't call out brands by name because it would not be a guess or opinion, it would be fact because they come to me for repairs. I see them, the defects that cause the problems. I also weigh them and make lasting repairs. Because they fail to meet the requirements of the owner or myself does not mean that they won't work for someone who is not using it to full potential.

I wasn't calling people "fan boys" in my post as you can read yourself. You have been coming here long enough to know that requests for factual information are not well received regarding the bikes that are constantly bumped to the top of the topic list with pointless posts.

If your goal is to buy a bike that is well received on web forums, looks good, rides well, is light, handles well, that is your business. People who don't like the look of my bikes certainly don't pull any punches and when there is an issue with a defect or a problem, I step right up and address the question. There are plenty of posts asking about weight and failures regarding current products. They are quickly driven down, figure it out yourself.

Do you think no one knows the weight or issues of these bikes? they sure do know and they want you to buy one anyway. They want you to empty that container no matter how bad the bike sucks.

If you own a heavy bike prone to failure, you can be happy. That does not make your bike light and durable.

 

[norbar]

Well, I won't call out brands by name because it would not be a guess or opinion, it would be fact because they come to me for repairs. I see them, the defects that cause the problems. I also weigh them and make lasting repairs. Because they fail to meet the requirements of the owner or myself does not mean that they won't work for someone who is not using it to full potential.

You won't call out brands because it'd be a fact? I see no sense in that sentance.

I wasn't calling people "fan boys" in my post as you can read yourself.

Rly? Did I misunderstood "You won't get any help from the fan boys on this one." ?? For me it's quite clear you are suggesting the other posters in the topic are indeed fanboys

You have been coming here long enough to know that requests for factual information are not well received regarding the bikes that are constantly bumped to the top of the topic list with pointless posts.

Actualy there are some ppl here that ride their bikes and even though there is a lot of hype on RM you can also get a lot of factual info too. I think hating the internet and the forums has became much to trendy nowdays.

If your goal is to buy a bike that is well received on web forums, looks good, rides well, is light, handles well, that is your business

.

Besides the web forums stuff what's wrong with the rest of the stuff? Light, rides well, looks good? Are they bad things?

There are plenty of posts asking about weight and failures regarding current products. They are quickly driven down, figure it out yourself.

Man put down the tinfoil hat. Seriously. Actualy the failure rate of most of the bikes is blown out of proportion over the net. Quite opposite of what you suggest.

Do you think no one knows the weight or issues of these bikes? they sure do know and they want you to buy one anyway. They want you to empty that container no matter how bad the bike sucks.

Most people don't research bikes that much but buy what their lbs has and looks/seems nice.

If you own a heavy bike prone to failure, you can be happy. That does not make your bike light and durable

In my opinion a bike that is much lighter than 4.5kg(with shock) will always be risky and not durable in the longer term if you tend to crash. Also what is with the douchebag attitude? Calling all other ppls bikes heavy and prone to failure? That what annyos me most with your post and why I think you are more of a fanboy than anyone else on the forum. A lot of ppl are full of hype but you flat out go and say "My bike is the best, all the others are crap" and belive me it actualy makes me think worse of sinister not better.
Also most of the heavier bikes are quite durable. The extra weight kinda makes it easier to make a durable bike.

 

[verticult]

No, many of the heavy bikes really suck so you are wrong.


well, you are right, I am behaving like a jerk in certain respects. I also am very critical of my own mistakes on bikes I have designed or built. I am a very competitive person and constantly have to back-off when I get headed in the wrong direction. I just get bummed seeing stuff being pumped to the public that I know is unable to withstand what I see as Average abuse. I am actually so critical of my own products that I have shelved projects after considerable investment that I could have continued to sell because I knew some might fail. I should come to terms with the idea that it isn't my job to try to guilt brands into admitting limitations that some people MIGHT find.

It's a bit of the jaded thing I guess. I know how things really work and it just breaks my heart. I want see bikes being made here and manufacturing jobs go to people who ride who will go to races.

Here is where we are at

very few bike $$ stay in US

tens of thousands of US bike workers laid off

race entries dropped by 60% or more.

the awesome part is now factories are marketing directly to consumers. So, we lose the US/euro factories, the jobs, the dealers are leaving, mail-orders run by brands are crushing dealers and now the "empties" (importers who do nothing but sell stuff) and going to get cut out by direct from China sales.

I think I may dedicate the rest of my life to hooking consumers up directly with chinese factories. Even worse ****, better price. That the way, Right?

They are laughing at you...your brands, and you are busting my stones. Genius.

 

[Polandspring88]

You seem to be prattling on about keeping jobs in the US bike industry, but aren't a few Sinister models welded up in Canada? I understand that they are your employer and you can't badmouth them publically, but it seems like a hypocritical position considering your situation. Rather unfortunate too since it seems like most of the innovative vision that defined the company in the first place went out the door along with that move...

 

[Ithnu]

A side note here. Last year Aaron Gwin's 303 was 43 pounds and he took 10th at his first world cup ever. Please tell me he needed a 39.9 pound bike. Yeah right.

Gee Atherton's Commencal is 41 or 42 pounds if I remember the article I read correctly. What Gee runs that's different from stock is the head angle, his goes 61-63 degrees vs 63-65 and his adjustable chain stay is 0.5" longer. The bike weighs the same. So a pro requested different geometry, not weight savings.

 

[gemini2k]

You seem to be prattling on about keeping jobs in the US bike industry, but aren't a few Sinister models welded up in Canada?

I'm pretty sure they're all made up in Vermont.

 

[dan-o]

I'm pretty sure they're all made up in Vermont.

The gruitr came out of davinci.

 

[Kanye West]

I'm not really trying to make any point at all, just throw up information that's convenient and readily available for comparison.

The Gruitr or whatever it's called is NOT and FTW bike, but it is a Sinister. The R9 and the F-Bomb have always been FTW's creations.

I also think it's badass that Gwinn is competitive at that level on a bike that isn't a little welterweight.

 

[norbar]

No, many of the heavy bikes really suck so you are wrong.


well, you are right, I am behaving like a jerk in certain respects. I also am very critical of my own mistakes on bikes I have designed or built. I am a very competitive person and constantly have to back-off when I get headed in the wrong direction. I just get bummed seeing stuff being pumped to the public that I know is unable to withstand what I see as Average abuse. I am actually so critical of my own products that I have shelved projects after considerable investment that I could have continued to sell because I knew some might fail. I should come to terms with the idea that it isn't my job to try to guilt brands into admitting limitations that some people MIGHT find.

It's a bit of the jaded thing I guess. I know how things really work and it just breaks my heart. I want see bikes being made here and manufacturing jobs go to people who ride who will go to races.

Here is where we are at

very few bike $$ stay in US

tens of thousands of US bike workers laid off

race entries dropped by 60% or more.

the awesome part is now factories are marketing directly to consumers. So, we lose the US/euro factories, the jobs, the dealers are leaving, mail-orders run by brands are crushing dealers and now the "empties" (importers who do nothing but sell stuff) and going to get cut out by direct from China sales.

I think I may dedicate the rest of my life to hooking consumers up directly with chinese factories. Even worse ****, better price. That the way, Right?

They are laughing at you...your brands, and you are busting my stones. Genius.

Many heavy frames are crap so I am wrong? What do you mean by many? Over 50%? Are you suggesting that more than that of the heavy frames is not durable? Seriously? If that's really true why I know so little people that broke their frames? I go to races and have quite a lot of biker friends that are quite abusive yet it's not like every race 10 frames desintegrate or explode.

What is more important is that YOU STILL HAVEN"T ANSWERED ME if the weight and durability is the only factor that makes a frame good. And you claiming your critical about your stuff? Seriously man get back on the ground, you claim that almost all of the other bikes are crap and yours is superior. I've seen nothing of that in any of other frame construcors I've had contacted. Even Tony Ellsworth is more subtle.

About the US bikers and stuff. Seriously? There is a financial crisis if you haven't noticed so no wonder less cash on the bike market but before it from what I remember the industry was booming, maybe not booming like it was in the days of Palmer, Volvo and Sunn teams but still it's imho in better condition than it was 3-4 years ago. Also I have a much wider choice of frames and they are made much better than they were back in the day. The fact that more and more bikes is produced in TW doesn't really change nothing. Have you even seen some of that bikes? (I don't mean the catalogue bikes because for now contrary to what you say it's a small % of what we see in dh). Some TW produced bikes have problems with build quality like commencal but if I understand correctly Lapierre frames for example are produced there and I can bet you the build quality is easily on par if not superior to the F-bomb. From what I've seen the Jedi and some other bikes are no slouches either.
Really I hate the argument if something is made oversees than it must be crap, that's really narrow minded. Have you even seen pictures of taiwan now? Does it look like all they do is build it in clay huts? Or do you simply think that the Taiwnease are simply unable to produce quality frames because they are somehow disabled?
I seriously wait for the technology to get cheaper because from what I've seen at recent metal show (not music ) the full auto techology is there to put an end to all those silly people who think that making a bike in a "better" country will make it more durable or superior in any other way.


Also as Ithnu stated your focus on weight is silly. Many pros ride ~40lbs bikes when they obviously can ride lighter ones (even on heavy frames they can still use the ones from 32.2lb F-bomb read ) if they want. Somehow many of them don't but opt for geometry and suspension upgrades.
A light bike is nice but geo and susp in my opinion make far bigger differance.

BTW. Find a better spokesperson for the company becasue at first I was interested in the F-bomb but quite far before this topic the whole attitude around the bike really put me off. You sure you're not selling steroids?

 

[Kanye West]

blah blah blah

Seriously?

 

[norbar]

Seriously?

I'm overreacting but that kind of attitude really pisses me off, especialy if one uses no facts to support his case. It's EOT for me. I know it got silly.