[englertracing]

Indeed, good catch!

Still, the flow areas don't make sense to me...

It is a bit odd
But the check valve appears to have a ton of lift/float. Only needs to be sufficient to replace the shaft volume. Perhaps they aren't small but the compression ports are oversized.

They are probably bigger than a motorcycle showa or kyb that uses a 16mm shaft.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

The shaft is 14mm on the Storia.

I realise now that the piston center hole is larger on the other side and allow the nut to grip more thread.
You can see how much float there is for the check valve on the picture below

the orientation of the piston was definitely right

 

[HAB]

I got some info for the oil EXT uses, see here http://www.extremeshox.com/product/shock-fluid-2-5w/

Density at 20°C	0.80 Kg/Lt
Viscosity cSt at 40°C	9
Viscosity cSt at 100°C	3
Viscosity Index	325
Flammability	>150°C
Sliding Point	-60°C

Huh, so SUPER light. I don't have anything even close on hand currently.

What did you end up using?

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Huh, so SUPER light. I don't have anything even close on hand currently.

What did you end up using?

Rockshox 2.5wt should come pretty close according to my French suspension guru.

I went for Motorex Fork oil 2.5w and removed 1 or 2 shims at the top of the rebound stack. The rebound was on the slow side originally and the thicker oil made the shock less noisy. Not sure if this will impact on the HBO...

 

[englertracing]

Rockshox 2.5wt should come pretty close according to my French suspension guru.

I went for Motorex Fork oil 2.5w and removed 1 or 2 shims at the top of the rebound stack. The rebound was on the slow side originally and the thicker oil made the shock less noisy. Not sure if this will impact on the HBO...

maybe you should consider a 2 stage rebound stack.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

maybe you should consider a 2 stage rebound stack.

What would be the benefits?

 

[englertracing]

What would be the benefits?

Whelll
On a typical linear kidney port piston.....
A standard tapered shim stack is slightly degressive.

A subtle 2 stage actually ends up being more linear. While a not so subtle 2 stage gets progressive.

You want a pretty linear rebound action in my experimentation in offroad suspension systems. Seal drag and system friction is already providing some very low speed resistance/friction.

Not so subtle 2 stage rebound stacks are um not ideal either.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

On a typical linear kidney port piston.....
A standard tapered shim stack is slightly degressive.

Thanks for the explanation!

Does it still apply for round port?
Rebound side upp on the pic below

 

[iRider]

Anyone any experience with opening up the Manitou McLeod?

 

[englertracing]

Thanks for the explanation!

Does it still apply for round port?
Rebound side upp on the pic below
View attachment 161340

Yes round too

 

[Jm_]

Anyone any experience with opening up the Manitou McLeod?

Yes

 

[iRider]

Yes

Mine seems to be awfully quick on the last bit of rebound and seems to have more resistance during the initial 1/10 of the stroke than say a Fox or RS shock. Normal? I bought it used and it came fresh from a service from the German Manitou distro.

 

[Jm_]

Mine seems to be awfully quick on the last bit of rebound and seems to have more resistance during the initial 1/10 of the stroke than say a Fox or RS shock. Normal? I bought it used and it came fresh from a service from the German Manitou distro.

Mine has a much improved rebound stroke after modding. It was crazy slow stock. Compression still over damped though. I’m probably going to take a crack at that side soon. The later ones came with an updated piston and lighter rebound stack. For some reason these were coming with some wacky tunes still.

I ordered some shimz from the avalanche shimz site, per the recommendations on the McLeod tuning thread.

 

[iRider]

Mine has a much improved rebound stroke after modding. It was crazy slow stock. Compression still over damped though. I’m probably going to take a crack at that side soon. The later ones came with an updated piston and lighter rebound stack. For some reason these were coming with some wacky tunes still.

I ordered some shimz from the avalanche shimz site, per the recommendations on the McLeod tuning thread.

On which bike do you have it? King Can? Mine is on the Tracer 2, King Can and I guess it has a custom tune. Rebound seems to have a large range from super slow to super fast. This stickness off the top and the super fast rebound towards the end although it seems right during the rest of the travel bothers me.
Mid travel support is way better than the Fox that was on there before, so I kind of like it minus these issues.

How easy is it to work on? The manual says you need a lot of special tools?

 

[Jm_]

You only really need the 3:1 tool for getting the valve core out and the other fitting. Everything else is normal stuff. Strap wrench for the can, shock pump, etc.

One thing that was all hyped up was that this had a non-dished rebound stack that “actually worked”, but again, it had a wacky heavy stack/obstructed flow and was a lot better with some tuning. You were supposed to be able to run “real slow” rebound without consequences. Just read the whole McLeod thread on mtbr, most of that info is there. Only thing is they make some small references to a piston or shim stack that “might” be there, but chances are you have those f-ed up initial stacks/pistons. They make it out like everyone has the better stuff.

I had to use the king can, otherwise the shock was way too progressive. On my XC pivot 429sl.

But yeah, pretty east to work on. Typical shim stack piston stuff.

 

[iRider]

Cheers for that!
How did you work around the bleed tool? Put shock in a bucket full of oil? Not sure why they pressurize it?

 

[Flo33]

Indeed, good catch!

Still, the flow areas don't make sense to me...

Perhaps due to a comparably stiffer mid valve comp stack and their "turbulent oil flow"-hocus pocus?

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Perhaps due to a comparably stiffer mid valve comp stack and their "turbulent oil flow"-hocus pocus?

I heard that it is a possible configuration with preloaded shimstack depending on the volume of fluid being displaced by the shaft and the stiffness of the stack.
That was from a former BOS employee.

It might not be a complete explanation but it was enough to quiet my armchair level of suspension engineering

 

[Jm_]

Cheers for that!
How did you work around the bleed tool? Put shock in a bucket full of oil? Not sure why they pressurize it?

They have a YouTube video showing it. You basically get it topped off and the ifp set right by adding a certain amount of pressure and holding the shock a certain way, then screwing down the cap so it’s totally filled. You end up pressurizing it. It doesn’t de-gas as well as vacuum, but seems to work pretty well.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Some more info about EXT Storia shocks: the scraper seal used is a Trelleborg Zurcon DA22 14x20x4.7

I didn't manage to remove the oil seal to measure it... I didn't wanted to damage it. It seems to be made of a harder material than the usual NBR70. If someone has info about it, I would be grateful to hear it.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Generic question about clamp shims: is there another reason beside clearance for the clamp shims to be so thick?
Clamp shims I have seen have been 0.3 0.4 and even 0.5mm thick.
I wonder if I can replace a 0.4mm clamp shim with two 0.2mm. The goal is to reduce the clamping diameter.

 

[Redwood Mulch Chucker]

I think they are thick so they don't bend and set the pivot point for the stack. And also to take up space.

That single 0.4mm thick shim is 4x stiffer than qty2 0.2mm shims.

I've never seen a clamp shim under 0.3mm in thickness, and a single 0.3mm shim is more than 1.5x stiffer than qty2 0.2mm shims.

 

[englertracing]

Generic question about clamp shims: is there another reason beside clearance for the clamp shims to be so thick?
Clamp shims I have seen have been 0.3 0.4 and even 0.5mm thick.
I wonder if I can replace a 0.4mm clamp shim with two 0.2mm. The goal is to reduce the clamping diameter.

Needs to be stiff or it will bend around the nut. The hex on the nut will create some inconsistencies in bend pattern, which will be different depending on clocking, which will change every time its reassembled

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Thanks guys, I much appreciate!
I am glad I asked, but stupid me ordered the thinner shims before getting an answer...

I have 2 EXT Storias, one that came with a Ransom frame and one I recently found for cheap on the local Craigslist. The latest one will end up on my son's Ransom. Like father like son, they say!
I aim to recreate the same valving on his shock as on mine, maybe a tad lighter. On the comp side, mine has a 0.3mm 14mm clamp shim (10mm ID) while his came with two 0.4mm 15mm clamp. The comp stack pushes against the part circled in blue on the bottom left of the picture below.
What if I leave the first 15mm OD clamp and replace the second with two 14mm OD 0.2mm thick (the ones I ordered yesterday)? That would give the 14mm clamp I seek and maybe still have enough stiffness. Is it possible to tell from your experience?

Off course I will do what's needed to keep the same stack height.

@Redwood Mulch Chucker
I have seen clamp shims as thin as 0.1mm on the damping adj assy of the trusty old DHX RC4, see link. Those don't push against a nut but a more finely machined surface. That might make a difference?
https://tech.ridefox.com/img/help/page58-loFGb9/Damping-Adj-Assy-2011-DHX-RC4.jpg

https://tech.ridefox.com/img/help/page58-loFGb9/Damping-Adj-Assy-2011-DHX-RC4.jpg

 

[englertracing]

Thanks guys, I much appreciate!
I am glad I asked, but stupid me ordered the thinner shims before getting an answer...

I have 2 EXT Storias, one that came with a Ransom frame and one I recently found for cheap on the local Craigslist. The latest one will end up on my son's Ransom. Like father like son, they say!
I aim to recreate the same valving on his shock as on mine, maybe a tad lighter. On the comp side, mine has a 0.3mm 14mm clamp shim (10mm ID) while his came with two 0.4mm 15mm clamp. The comp stack pushes against the part circled in blue on the bottom left of the picture below.
What if I leave the first 15mm OD clamp and replace the second with two 14mm OD 0.2mm thick (the ones I ordered yesterday)? That would give the 14mm clamp I seek and maybe still have enough stiffness. Is it possible to tell from your experience?
View attachment 218462
Off course I will do what's needed to keep the same stack height.

@Redwood Mulch Chucker
I have seen clamp shims as thin as 0.1mm on the damping adj assy of the trusty old DHX RC4, see link. Those don't push against a nut but a more finely machined surface. That might make a difference?
https://tech.ridefox.com/img/help/page58-loFGb9/Damping-Adj-Assy-2011-DHX-RC4.jpg

https://tech.ridefox.com/img/help/page58-loFGb9/Damping-Adj-Assy-2011-DHX-RC4.jpg

its ok to do that, the clamp shim isnt a shim anymore its just a clamp at that point

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Many thanks @englertracing