[HAB]

I blew the Roco RC on my Draco the fvck up today. Upon further inspection, it's a mess. Probably fixable, but it needs a lot of the internals replaced, so it'll be expensive, labor intensive, and I'm feeling a little UGI kicking in. So. The question is, what do I want to replace it with? Since I'm pretty sure it's the only one of these bikes still in one piece, down from a grand total of 3, the wealth of knowledge on them out there is limited, but here are my experiences from tuning my Roco for it, and a little description of the suspension:

-It's a quasi-parallel link setup, with a pretty rearward axle path for the first bit of travel. Not Canfield extreme, but a bit.
-It's pretty progressive. For this reason I'm thinking the RC4 is not a good call.
-It requires pretty light damping. The average leverage ratio isn't that high, and it rides better with pretty light damping. It took some substantial reshimming of the Roco for me to like it. I'm also not a very big guy, at ~165#.
-It's got a scary low BB (sub 13" for a full on DH bike) so I want something with pretty good mid stroke support so it doesn't wallow badly. The bike is not prone to this, so it's not a huge worry, but I think I'm going to stay away from anything air spring for that reason. I could be talked out of this though, maybe.
-Clearance for whatever shouldn't be an issue.

I'm thinking a CCDB is probably a frontrunner, and afters some back and forth with myself on this one, I think I might be willing to drop the scratch for one. My concerns are as follows though. First, I love that the Roco is user serviceable with a crescent wrench and a couple allens. I'm not totally stoked on the idea of giving that up. I also worry it'll be a little heavily damped for the bike. I've heard reports of people liking them less on bikes that don't require much damping, especially on compression. Thoughts?

Things like Bos are out on a price basis. So is Avy too, probably. I'm only considering a CCDB because I can get a deal on one. I've got a really old 5th I could send to Avy which would be cool but it's in really ****ty shape, and I don't want to sink much money into such a beat chassis. It's a common size (8.75x2.75) so I could probably find a more suitable donor body to work with, but I want to move on this because the bike rides like ass with the beat old 5th on it. Sorry for the novel, anyone got thoughts for me?

 

[bullcrew]

the 5th/avy is a good choice..

based on the fact that the suspension is similair to the jedi the shocks I like are Avy woodie, Vivid c-tune, roco wc air and Elka....and in that order

 

[HAB]

I wouldn't compare it to the Jedi that directly. It's got a bit less travel (out of the same size shock IIRC), and is definitely less rearward, with no idler. I don't know that much about the Jedi's leverage curve, so I can't comment there.

 

[saruti]

go for the ELKA.
I tested the CCDB and the ELKA.
the ELKA is better.
and if your link is progressive, you will love it.

 

[HAB]

On what bike? Under what conditions? I have a hard time believing the Elka is better at everything (though none whatsoever that it may have been on whatever bike you were looking at in particular). More info please.

 

[saruti]

tested it on my sunday for a few weeks.
also tried it on a TR and on a socom.
the ELKA is better.
try it for yourself before you are buying anything of course

 

[HardtailHack]

The Elka's are still quite a sticky shock, they are a lot better now than when they first came out but are still nowhere nearly as sensitve as a BOS. With the Elka you can feel almost a clunk as the shock changes direction.

I have both a BOS equipped frame and another frame with an Elka so I can't really compare them dirctly as the frames are too different.

 

[Steve M]

The RC4 is a surprisingly versatile shock, and with low air pressure/high volume it's fine on progressive bikes, even as far as the 951 goes (dunno if the Draco is more or less progressive than a 951, I doubt it's more though!). The CCDB is a good choice for reasonably progressive bikes too IMO, but it's a bit more hit-and-miss than the RC4 in my experience. It's a great shock in its own right but the RC4's ability to adjust progression fairly independently of the mid stroke makes it a good choice on almost anything, and if you aren't able to test ride with a CCDB then the Fox is a safer bet IMO. With 125psi in the chamber and it wound fully out, it's not very progressive at all.

Disclaimer for the sake of honesty - I have been working with a Fox tuner for the past few months and have no plans to ride anything else in the near future.

 

[Commencal-guy]

I love my Elka. Best shock i've used in a while. The customer service is unreal. Plus who doesn't love Canadians?

 

[nybike1971]

Bummer about your Roco! I hope that the shock was the only component to suffer any damage.

I spent a good chunk of last season on a CCDB on the Yeti 303RDH. The Yeti has a pretty flat leverage curve (mildly progressive throughout the travel) and while I enjoyed the liveliness and sensitivity of the CCDB, in the end I think it may just not be progressive enough for the Yeti. I sent the shock in for a rebuild recently (I don't have it back in my hands yet) because the last few times I used it felt a little inconsistent with high-speed rebound events: it would feel great for a bit and a few runs later it would kick on the same g-outs. What I did like about the CCDB is the sensitivity and low-speed performance. I am not a big fan of having to use the high-speed compression circuit to control bottom out because it chokes the shock up in high-speed chatter.

I spent one day on a Go-Ride demo Elka shock on my bike. I loved the shock for most of the day: it felt much livelier and poppy than the CCDB with the same spring rate. The rebound is quite progressive (I setup the CCDB with a much more linear rebound damping response) and makes the bike feel more lively. Preloading the rear end is very natural and the bike feels like it accelerates better through rough sections. In hindsight, I may have had the low-speed rebound set a bit too fast overall but I was just getting used to the shock. Unfortunately, when I cased the transition on a small drop the Elka ejected me off the bike, which cost me an ACL. I had cased that same drop one other time on the CCDB and it was completely uneventful. The Elka felt like for a split moment immediately following the fast and harsh compression stroke when I cased the rock lip of the transition, the rebound damping was completely absent and the spring just shot back to its fully extended position. Conversely, the CCDB kept its composure through a similar event. One case doesn't really offer any statistical power but to me the difference in behavior of the shocks (both set up by me) was quite staggering.

Jen's new DH bike came with an Elka and I am planning to spend more time on this shock this season (the shock tunes are very similar). I noticed that the Elka was the old version (with a Schrader valve in the piggyback) and called Elka. They had me send the shock in to update the internals but after they had it in their hands they called me up and said that that shock was recalled and that they would build a new one for me. This made me wonder if the Elka I was demoing was also part of the recall even though it had the newer style reservoir without the Schrader valve.

 

[demo 9]

Happy owner of an elka on a jedi, coming from a DHX 5 on the same bike.

 

[HAB]

The RC4 is a surprisingly versatile shock, and with low air pressure/high volume it's fine on progressive bikes, even as far as the 951 goes (dunno if the Draco is more or less progressive than a 951, I doubt it's more though!). The CCDB is a good choice for reasonably progressive bikes too IMO, but it's a bit more hit-and-miss than the RC4 in my experience. It's a great shock in its own right but the RC4's ability to adjust progression fairly independently of the mid stroke makes it a good choice on almost anything, and if you aren't able to test ride with a CCDB then the Fox is a safer bet IMO. With 125psi in the chamber and it wound fully out, it's not very progressive at all.

Disclaimer for the sake of honesty - I have been working with a Fox tuner for the past few months and have no plans to ride anything else in the near future.

Hm. That helps a bunch, thanks. The Draco is definitely not as progressive as the 951, so that maybe brings the RC4 back into the picture. I do have a friend of a friend who's selling an appropriate sized CCDB, so hopefully I can talk him into letting me borrow it for a day or two to test.

 

[climbingbubba]

I love the CCDB on my knolly which is really progressive. I have most of the compression dampening turned all the way off.

Out of the CCDB and the 2 elka's I have owned I would have to give a slight edge to the CCDB for the ability to tune it. One of my elka's and another friend who had one both had the same issue of the rebound being off. it was unusably fast and when i started to ad more dampening it would go from crazy fast to too slow. reminded me of the pre 2010 boxxers compression dampening (5 clicks that go from fully soft to almost locked out). It wasn't that extreme but it was more like 16 clicks of way too fast and 4 of too slow.

Granted it was probably a poor tune from the get go...

I have also had the notorious clunk on both of my elka's. one was the older style and one was the newer. both were said to have the updated parts that would eliminate the clunk too.

The RC4 looks pretty good and if you are daring you could look into the new Xfusion shock.

I would love to try a vivid air as well. seems like it would be a winner

 

[rigidhack]

I have a couple of bikes, one of which is more progressive than the other by design. I run a DHX5 on one, which, given the fact that it is my Shore bike runs really (as in no complaints at all) well. I can imagine that the RC4 would be a notch above that. On my Whistler bike, I have a Vivid, which lends a really linear feel to the travel. I think that an inherently progressive linkage might match up well with the Vivid.

 

[HardtailHack]

I love my Elka. Best shock i've used in a while. The customer service is unreal. Plus who doesn't love Canadians?

I thought they were French Canadians, if so I was under the impression no one likes them.

 

[kazlx]

I forget who it was, but there was a place that was doing shock rentals for $50 for a week, then they would credit any money you spent on rentals toward the purchase of a shock. Might be worth checking out. Not 100% on the details, but you get the idea.

 

[HAB]

I forget who it was, but there was a place that was doing shock rentals for $50 for a week, then they would credit any money you spent on rentals toward the purchase of a shock. Might be worth checking out. Not 100% on the details, but you get the idea.

Yeah, it's Go-Ride. Worth considering for sure.

 

[freeridefool]

Have you considered getting a dhx and sending it to push for the mx tune. Will eliminate the mid stroke wallow, and they arent as progressive as the rc4. I havent ridden an rc4, but the mx tune was pretty damn sweet. Thats pretty general but it wasnt my bike.

 

[HAB]

Got a line on demoing a CCDB. We'll see how that goes.


Does anyone have pertinent dimensions for making reducers for a CCDB? I think I'm going to have to.

 

[Udi]

The CCDB uses 12.7mm ID bushings (assuming you're not running spherical bearings) so your standard Roco/Fox/RS hardware should work with it just fine.

The bushings actually have a larger OD, but the ID (and width, which I believe is the same) is all that matters for reducer hardware.

 

[HAB]

Yeah, I should have mentioned that it's got spherical bearings installed. Any info on specs for those?

 

[HAB]

I could also just make some brass bushings for it if you've got the OD.

 

[daisycutter]

I blew the Roco RC on my Draco the fvck up today. Upon further inspection, it's a mess. Probably fixable, but it needs a lot of the internals replaced, so it'll be expensive, labor intensive, and I'm feeling a little UGI kicking in. So. The question is, what do I want to replace it with?

http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/Roco/Roco Speed Sensitive Damper Upgrade.htm

 

[nybike1971]

I could also just make some brass bushings for it if you've got the OD.

I have some Norglide bushings for the CCDB at home. I can measure that for you tonight.

 

[Udi]

The bushing OD is 15.9mm and the ID is 12.7mm

If you have spherical bearings and can run them though, I'd do that.
I don't know what hardware you'd need, but malcolm @ CC would be able to tell you.

 

[Pslide]

The RC4 is a surprisingly versatile shock, and with low air pressure/high volume it's fine on progressive bikes, even as far as the 951 goes (dunno if the Draco is more or less progressive than a 951, I doubt it's more though!). The CCDB is a good choice for reasonably progressive bikes too IMO, but it's a bit more hit-and-miss than the RC4 in my experience. It's a great shock in its own right but the RC4's ability to adjust progression fairly independently of the mid stroke makes it a good choice on almost anything, and if you aren't able to test ride with a CCDB then the Fox is a safer bet IMO. With 125psi in the chamber and it wound fully out, it's not very progressive at all.

Disclaimer for the sake of honesty - I have been working with a Fox tuner for the past few months and have no plans to ride anything else in the near future.

Hey Socket, you may be able to answer a question for me...

I bought an RC4 off e-bay 2 years ago. I can't get it to feel lively (on my Legend) regardless of settings (I can actually make my CCDB more likely by backing out the damping). What are the chances that I got a special tune RC4, perhaps for a specific bike? I don't suppose there is anyway to tell?

 

[IH8Rice]

What are the chances that I got a special tune RC4, perhaps for a specific bike? I don't suppose there is anyway to tell?

i thought the only "special" tuned ones from 2 years ago were the WC RC4's. i had one of my Revolt and hated it

 

[Pslide]

i thought the only "special" tuned ones from 2 years ago were the WC RC4's. i had one of my Revolt and hated it

Wish I knew.

Just contacted the guy who sold the RC4 to me 2 years ago. He said it came off of a 951, but he thought it was just a stock tune.

Perhaps all RC4's have a somewhat heavily damped compression circuit. It's worth it for the better mid-stroke support, just feels a bit more dead than I expect a Fox to feel. I know, I know...send it to Push....

 

[IH8Rice]

I know, I know...send it to Push....

they dont do RC4's yet

 

[Kanye West]

The RC4 is a surprisingly versatile shock, and with low air pressure/high volume it's fine on progressive bikes, even as far as the 951 goes (dunno if the Draco is more or less progressive than a 951, I doubt it's more though!). The CCDB is a good choice for reasonably progressive bikes too IMO, but it's a bit more hit-and-miss than the RC4 in my experience. It's a great shock in its own right but the RC4's ability to adjust progression fairly independently of the mid stroke makes it a good choice on almost anything, and if you aren't able to test ride with a CCDB then the Fox is a safer bet IMO. With 125psi in the chamber and it wound fully out, it's not very progressive at all.

Disclaimer for the sake of honesty - I have been working with a Fox tuner for the past few months and have no plans to ride anything else in the near future.

Socket - your PM box is full!

 

[bullcrew]

I blew the Roco RC on my Draco the fvck up today. Upon further inspection, it's a mess. Probably fixable, but it needs a lot of the internals replaced, so it'll be expensive, labor intensive, and I'm feeling a little UGI kicking in. So. The question is, what do I want to replace it with?

http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.com/Roco/Roco Speed Sensitive Damper Upgrade.htm

Forgot about this...yeah craig redoes the internals custom tunes it and new seals. Have a roco wc being done right now for a ride had the 5ths 4 ways done so far and great tunes....run a woody now and love his work. His roco tune eliminates the blowing up issue with rocos as well as the seals are upgraded....

This would be your best resolve and reliable....

 

[HAB]

Anyone have pertinent dimensions for making reducers to work with the CCDB's spherical bearings? I might need to make them before I have the shock in hand.

 

[Steve M]

Hey Socket, you may be able to answer a question for me...

I bought an RC4 off e-bay 2 years ago. I can't get it to feel lively (on my Legend) regardless of settings (I can actually make my CCDB more likely by backing out the damping). What are the chances that I got a special tune RC4, perhaps for a specific bike? I don't suppose there is anyway to tell?

Seems unlikely unless it was a WC edition one or off a pro's bike.

Mine feels pretty lively if I open it up, what kind of settings are you running? What spring rate and weight are you? My recommendation (assuming you have spring rate dialled - mine is very soft, undersprung really - I get about 40% sag, will be playing around with springs this weekend however) would be close the bottom out volume down to minimum, 200psi in the chamber, and start with hsc/lsc fully backed out, tune to preference. If you still can't get it feeling lively and you're willing to revalve it, try a (reasonably significantly) stiffer rebound tune with a more open setting on the adjuster.

Socket - your PM box is full!

Fixed.

 

[Pslide]

Seems unlikely unless it was a WC edition one or off a pro's bike.

Mine feels pretty lively if I open it up, what kind of settings are you running? What spring rate and weight are you? My recommendation (assuming you have spring rate dialled - mine is very soft, undersprung really - I get about 40% sag, will be playing around with springs this weekend however) would be close the bottom out volume down to minimum, 200psi in the chamber, and start with hsc/lsc fully backed out, tune to preference. If you still can't get it feeling lively and you're willing to revalve it, try a (reasonably significantly) stiffer rebound tune with a more open setting on the adjuster.

Pretty sure the shock is not a WC edition, although it did originally come from Mojo in the UK and they have some close Fox ties. I am running pretty close to your recommendations. I am 180 lbs w/o gear and run a 300 lbs spring. Running bottom out fully cranked up. Not sure if I'm up to 200 psi in the chamber but close. Run HSC nearly all the way out and have been playing with LSC. Not nearly as much LSC adjustment range as a CCDB, but I see that as a good thing. Bike remains more lively through out the LSC range, but still not as lively as I would expect with LSC all the way out. I guess it is what it is. Still like the shock, performs well and you can't get it too wrong like you can on the CCDB. Thanks for the feedback...

 

[Steve M]

Yeah I reckon it's partly in the rebound, it's very linear, and as a result you end up closing down the LSR relatively slow to get the HSR where it needs to be, which deadens the ride a bit. If you've got the opportunity to revalve the rebound, give it a shot and let us know how it goes/if it works for you.

 

[fl1ppo]

Anyone have pertinent dimensions for making reducers to work with the CCDB's spherical bearings? I might need to make them before I have the shock in hand.

GE 8 C
http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/jsp/extra/menuProductTables.jsp?link2=3_1_10a

As precise as I could measure it:

Can't wait to test the CCDB on Saturday. I hope it will be even better than the Vivid that I rode til now.

 

[IH8Rice]

Pretty sure the shock is not a WC edition, although it did originally come from Mojo in the UK and they have some close Fox ties.

if it was a WC RC4, it would have the limited edition stickers on it and individually numbered.

someone in Germany has mine now

 

[dirtydawgnz]

Got a similar prob.

Ditching my DHX Air off my Lapierre Froggy (2.3:1 LR - 180mm) and looking for a coil replacement. I do aggressive all mountain, light freeride and some local DH tracks (nothing too huge!).

First choice was the Elka but I've now heard a lot about the noise they make, is this still the case? Being tuend for your ride is a benefit and good CS.

The X-fusion seems alright on the surface, but no real reviews out there yet. It could be worth a try (good weight). Not tuned for your ride but some reviews saying better than the RC4.

CCDB is also a contender as it is so adjustable and comes with a couple of good reviews from other Lapierre owners. Comes tuned. Its just so darn expensive.

The RC4 is also in the running but.....I reckon 1 of the three above could be a better option....just gut feeling!

Any recommendations!!!!!!

 

[heavy metal]

Just get an avalanche if you're shooting for high end stuff. It could be the last rear shock you buy. Just get it rebuilt, valved, and stroke modified as you move through frames.

Edit: or just have craig give your roco some TLC like bullcrew recommends.

 

[HAB]

Just get an avalanche if you're shooting for high end stuff. It could be the last rear shock you buy. Just get it rebuilt, valved, and stroke modified as you move through frames.

Edit: or just have craig give your roco some TLC like bullcrew recommends.

I got a CCDB a looong time ago dude.