A pic. This is me driving at NHIS in October 2001 or 2002.
recommend me a car
- Thread starter Cash-Money
- Start date
thats why i was saying xi, because even tho you could hit a corner fast in rwd and not have to worry about pushing it, you hit it in awd and you dont have to worry about spinning either....unless youre going sickeningly fast...Repack said:
shifty S said:
False... AWD cars push just as bad if not worse than FWD cars in most cases.
AWD cars pulling the front end through corners is a myth. AWD kills off of standing starts, but that is where the majority of the benefit is. Just look at the rain race from Limerock last year (or maybe the year before). M3's were racing against Audi RS6's. There were two races that day: one in the dry, the second in the pouring rain. The M3 won both races, despite the fact that the Audi was pushing out ~200 more hp than the BMW. On an AWD car, all of the wheels are spinning at the same rate. With 4WD, the front wheels spin faster to pull the front end through nasty stuff. This is why you are not suppossed to drive full time in 4WD, unless you vehicle has some sort of electronics to manage it.
Repack said:
Thats not exactly accurate either. Look at all the years that the Archer Bros. DOMINATED in IMSA & SCCA using the Eagle Talons. They did not have any electronics that controlled the AWD system. I think they won 7 Championships in 8 years. They competed against the 300zTT and the like.
hmm, i think that 4wd cars/trucks usually have the same final drive ratio at both axles, so the front wheels wouldn't "spin faster to pull the front end through nasty stuff". only time i've heard of such a setup was on those crazy norwegian off road hill climb race trucks
4WD vs. AWD has been explained to me like this a number of times. You can feel it in my tuck when you are driving on dry pavement.Toshi said:
AWD works b/c the wheels spin the same.
Just b/c an AWD car does well, the credit shouldn't immediately go to the AWD.
I really don't feel like talking any more about AWD/RWD/4WD. I know what I like, you all know what you like. There really isn't any point arguing about it.
Is it Sven thats buying the new car? Whoever it is, I hope that you thoroughly enjoy whatever you get.
so true, so true...i LOVED my Z32. there such sweet cars and if youll go and read about them and stuff youll find that they have a lot of cool history and really are just a cool car to own. i def want a 240 to go with the 300 one day.Toshi said:ugh. z31? 300zxs from the 80s are a) ugly, and b) slow since they grew fat in that period. z32 or 240z, nothing else is acceptable
Forget about going fast. By a big ol' truck and fill it with bikes. 
i won't argue with you over what you like or dislikeRepack said:
, but your truck's behavior is not because the front wheels are being driven at a different speed, to the best of my knowledge. instead ours don't have a center diff (or its locked? not sure) so the front and rear axles have to spin at exactly the same speed, and in tight corners the fronts trace a larger arc so you get tire scuffing.
I thought the two standard modes of 4wd are for the center diff (t-case) to be locked or unlocked. When locked, power gets split 50 50 to each axle. When unlocked, power can go to either end? That's why you don't drive on the road with the center diff locked. Turning and stuff will screw everything up.
Really depends on the car/truck you have. For example, I think my model Jeep came with 3 different transfer case options. I think they called it... quadratrac (awd, 4-lo, center diff not locked in both modes), selectrac (2wd, 4hi-locked, 4hi-not locked, and 4lo locked), and commandtrac (2wd, 4hi-locked, 4lo-locked). Quickest example that came to mind and I'm really no expert. Could be wrong.Toshi said:on mine i just have a transfer case lever. in 2 hi there's no coupling. in 4 hi and 4 lo it's locked as far as i can tell? or maybe it's unlocked, but the tires still scrub on pavement and manual says
neaky:
4WD aside, I think I have a better way of phrasing what I was trying to say earlier about AWD vs. RWD on a race car. A car tire has a finite amount of adhesion. The adhesion of the tire must be shared by the braking, acceleration, and cornering forces. If you are in a turn devoting all of you traction to steering, all any additional power will do, no matter to which wheel, will cause the car to push wide.
LOL! Yeah, I saw a competition pulling truck on a trailer last week... named "Grounds For Divorce" - a name that probably applies to any vehicle like that...Repack said:
Btw, for kicks I did a quick search on Autotrader.com for a E36 325is. The cheapest one I found was a '93 w/ over 200k miles for about $5000. Granted, for track use, all you really need to do is change the fluids, grab a helmet and go. Upgrades can come as funds allow.
I agree with you on about AWD vs RWD. After owning an Audi A4 Quattro w/ a sport suspension upgrade and driving my g/f's M3. There is really no comparison - the Audi just felts like a slug - grippy, but still a slug.
Oddly enough, however, my g/f prefers the steering in her new FWD MINI Cooper S and the M3 has spent most of the last year collecting dust in the garage... it's a sad sight...
then its just throttle and brake control to decide which tires stick, as in any other car, and then the awd should have more traction to pull into the straights from a turn...Repack said:
I really wish that BMW had designed more "fun" into the car. My biggest complaint is that there is too much sound insulation. I drive with the windows down just so I can hear that sweet turbine-like exhaust.Ian F said:.......
Oddly enough, however, my g/f prefers the steering in her new FWD MINI Cooper S and the M3 has spent most of the last year collecting dust in the garage... it's a sad sight...
My other issues can all be explained by the fact that the car is essentially a street-legal race car. It took me several hundred miles to learn how to drive it. At first it was scary. The thing felt so planted in corners that I was expecting it to suddenly let go. Then I started to push it more and realized that the car doesn't come alive until you hit some pretty crazy speeds and truning angles. Once you hit that point, the car goes from feeling somewhat dead to feeling like a sub-2,000 race rocket. You suddenly feel like you have been telepathicly linked to the car. Its cool, but at the same time, there aren't many places where you can drive like that. My brother, dad and I all agree that the 325/8 is more fun to whip around on the street.
It doesn't help there either. Think about how much horse power it takes to smoke a tire once the vehicle is moving. In exit situations, a RWD car has no more problem getting the power down than any other.shifty S said:.....
then the awd should have more traction to pull into the straights from a turn...
AWD provides better standing-start times under any conditions and better foul weather performance in regular street situation.
Yeah, there is a certain "disconnected" feel to the car. Apparently, the E30 was better in this regard and the E46 is even worse. All three models apparently have their strengths and drawbacks - the performance increases as the "feel" decreases. From what I've read in many places, given similar power:weight ratios, an E46 will blow the doors off an E36 due to it's improved suspension geometry, but feels sort of dead while doing so...Repack said:I really wish that BMW had designed more "fun" into the car. My biggest complaint is that there is too much sound insulation. I drive with the windows down just so I can hear that sweet turbine-like exhaust.
My other issues can all be explained by the fact that the car is essentially a street-legal race car. It took me several hundred miles to learn how to drive it. At first it was scary. The thing felt so planted in corners that I was expecting it to suddenly let go. Then I started to push it more and realized that the car doesn't come alive until you hit some pretty crazy speeds and truning angles. Once you hit that point, the car goes from feeling somewhat dead to feeling like a sub-2,000 race rocket. You suddenly feel like you have been telepathicly linked to the car. Its cool, but at the same time, there aren't many places where you can drive like that. My brother, dad and I all agree that the 325/8 is more fun to whip around on the street.
My issue with driving the M3 on the street is how things become so "uneventful" until speeds approach stupid levels. Like you said, to really enjoy the car, you have to take it to the track - sadly something my g/f will never do. In some ways, my lowly Ford van is more fun simply because you can feel its limits at safer speeds. Pushing the limits of the M3 on the street is not safe - ever. Simply because if you lose it, the results will probably be terminal.
The exhaust note music... why guys stuff $4000 stereos in those cars, I'll never understand...
I just saw a thing on the new M3. For starters, it will not be called the M4. It will have a 400hp 4.0L V8. The M3 CSL will have a 440hp 4.4L V8. And it will weigh the same. At least the motor will. Can't remember about the rest of the car.
Insanity!
Insanity!