[golgiaparatus]

So I know I'm getting to the point of overtraining. I'm either flirting with it now or I'm in the beginnings of it.

Im doing the entire XC series this year, and doing well, but it's starting to take a toll. Lately I've been a walking zombie, and just cant get enough sleep. Also been less powerful and easily worn out on the bike. This has been going on for about a week.

So I decided to take 2 full days off. Then I'm going to come back with a 2 days on, 1 day off (easy spinning) for a week and hope that snaps me out of it. I have 1 more race in 4 weeks. So this will allow me 2 weeks of standard training and 1 week of tapering.

Is there anything else I can do to snap my body out of it's funk?

I've never gotten to this point before training for XC, but this year I'm doing WAY more road, which has hugely helped my ability to hang with the fast guys, but I'm wondering if that's the difference.

 

[ire]

I would take at least three full days off, drink lots of water, eat healthy, and stretch a lot (not to mention getting lots of sleep). The first training block I would only do easy rides at not more than 2 hours a piece and then start to increase intensity after that. Over training can actually cause you to lose fitness, which causes many people to train more. It can be a viscous cycle. Props to you for recognizing the signs. How many days a week have you been taking off?

 

[golgiaparatus]

I would take at least three full days off, drink lots of water, eat healthy, and stretch a lot (not to mention getting lots of sleep). The first training block I would only do easy rides at not more than 2 hours a piece and then start to increase intensity after that. Over training can actually cause you to lose fitness, which causes many people to train more. It can be a viscous cycle. Props to you for recognizing the signs. How many days a week have you been taking off?

I take Mondays off. Wether it's active or not active rest depends on how I feel. I get further rest the 2 days leading up to a race (once, sometimes twice a month). I typically take 2 easy days in the dirt just prior to the race. The Monday after the race I don't ride at all.

In the weeks leading up to my current burnt out condition. I have done 90% road riding with only 1-2 days in the dirt just prior to a race. This is due to a small fracture in my wrist. The road allows me to rest the wrist much more. But I believe the added road time has contributed to my overtraining. Typically I'd balance my training between time on the road and time on the mountain, and I think it may be a lot harder to overtrain on the mountain than it is on the road... does that make any sense at all?

 

[golgiaparatus]

Whats crazy about this to me is that when I was in college I was an elite swimmer. We trained insanely hard, 4-5 hours in the pool a day (14,000 yards), and weights in the middle of the day... 6 days a week. And I never got "overtrained".

Now I'm doing 2 hours a day on average, no weights, and my body is getting overloaded... seems crazy.

 

[Heidi]

you're old.

At this point it may be too late. Given those symptoms I'd probably agree with Ire on the rest and then and maybe get off the road and just do a few fun mountain bike rides the first week back.

 

[golgiaparatus]

you're old.

At this point it may be too late. Given those symptoms I'd probably agree with Ire on the rest and then and maybe get off the road and just do a few fun mountain bike rides the first week back.

True... I was in my 20s back then.

I like the mountain only idea. Maybe I'll use the SS as my recovery tool of choice. That way I can mount the 21t and force myself to chill out. I have no self control

So am I correct in assuming that the increased volume of road has likely contributed to me pushing me over the limit?

 

[CBJ]

I over trained last year when the wife and kids were in Denmark all August. I also started feeling on my body like knees aching etc. Took me a long before I was out of it. Its difficult to hold back when you just love biking.

Agree with Heidi about age just can't compare to when you were in collage. I now have to be a lot more careful with my training to avoid injuries.

 

[golgiaparatus]

I over trained last year when the wife and kids were in Denmark all August. I also started feeling on my body like knees aching etc. Took me a long before I was out of it. Its difficult to hold back when you just love biking.

Agree with Heidi about age just can't compare to when you were in collage. I now have to be a lot more careful with my training to avoid injuries.

Only pain I had was a bit of leg/muscle soreness... no knee problems or anything thank god. The thing that bothers me the most is the zombie-ish-ness... I'd be at work and "bleh", then Id go ride and "ugh". Then I'd go home and "zzzzzzz" and then start over the next day.

After taking yesterday completely off and allowing myself to eat like a freaking pig, I actually feel loads better. I feel like I could go put in 50 miles right now, but I'm going to resist and take at least 1 more full day off before starting the 2 days on/1 day off routine. And I think I'll take Heidi's advice and spend those days just having fun in the dirt.

 

[Bicyclist]

Watch your calories, make sure you're getting enough. What are you eating after riding? Getting enough important nutrients? I am not an expert but whenever I start feeling overtrained many times it comes down to diet. Hydration is important too.

It sounds like you might just be riding too much and not allowing for enough recovery during an average week too. Our coach has us doing 2 days of recovery (1 hour easy ride) a week, with 2 long and hard group rides, a day of tempo, and two days of intervals for the majority of the season and it seems to be a good balance of training and recovery. I think at least 2 easy days a week can make your recovery better, leading to increasing your fitness and avoiding overtraining. At least that's what seems to be working for me.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Watch your calories, make sure you're getting enough. What are you eating after riding? Getting enough important nutrients? I am not an expert but whenever I start feeling overtrained many times it comes down to diet. Hydration is important too.

It sounds like you might just be riding too much and not allowing for enough recovery during an average week too. Our coach has us doing 2 days of recovery (1 hour easy ride) a week, with 2 long and hard group rides, a day of tempo, and two days of intervals for the majority of the season and it seems to be a good balance of training and recovery. I think at least 2 easy days a week can make your recovery better, leading to increasing your fitness and avoiding overtraining. At least that's what seems to be working for me.

Typically I have 2 ricecakes and suck on some ice... I'm trying to become Michael Rasmussen.


Seriously though... After riding I typically have a shake that includes some whey protein, a bananna, some strawberries, ICE, OJ and a little bit of sugar. It's a pretty tall glass of awesome and I find that it helps me not eat everything in the pantry later that night. But I still have a pretty normal dinner after that and sometimes even a bowl of cereal later if I'm still hungry.

How spaced out are your recovery rides?

 

[Heisenberg]

Take a week off.

Seriously. Maybe do an easy hour spin 3-4 days. Sleep, stretch, ice, massage, eat.

 

[KavuRider]

Like everyone else says - week off, easy spins, "fun" rides.
And eat more.

 

[Heisenberg]

Yeah - one or two days off isn't "rest". Your body takes epic amounts of time to recover from prolonged exertion on a daily basis. Mentally you might be fine in a day or two, but your body is still trying to rebuild everything you've been taxing for so long. I hit the proverbial fitness "wall" a couple weeks ago (read: stretching a fitness peak way too long and tacking a 5-stage race on top of it) and am still trying to get over it.

 

[MtnbikeMike]

I'll third the week off suggestion. Two days off won't do much if you are borderline overtrained.

 

[Bicyclist]

How spaced out are your recovery rides?

Monday - recovery ride
Tuesday - intervals
Wednesday - crit practice w/ intervals
Thursday - tempo
Friday - recovery/race activation
Saturday/Sunday - group rides or race

^more or less the basic structure of my training, with a super easy week every 4-6 weeks.

 

[mrbigisbudgood]

I agree with the week off. Rebuild all your bikes, go on a vacation, do something to keep you off the bike. You WILL come back stronger.

 

[ire]

Here is my schedule. Keep in mind that I don't go out and pound my guts out. There are very intense moments in my ride, followed by easy spinning. My average heart rate typically falls just below my lactate balance point.

Tuesday - off
Wednesday - off
Thursday - off
Friday - 5 hours
Saturday - 6 hours
Sunday - 6 hours
Monday - 4 hours

 

[golgiaparatus]

Yeah - one or two days off isn't "rest". Your body takes epic amounts of time to recover from prolonged exertion on a daily basis. Mentally you might be fine in a day or two, but your body is still trying to rebuild everything you've been taxing for so long. I hit the proverbial fitness "wall" a couple weeks ago (read: stretching a fitness peak way too long and tacking a 5-stage race on top of it) and am still trying to get over it.

When I said off I meant I didn't touch the bike for 2 days. Today I'm going to hit the trails with the SS and just ride... no pushing it, no hard climbs, etc. It'll be a recovery ride basically. Tomorrow will be the same, and the next day I'll take off. Was going to continue the 2 days active recovery followed by 1 day off the bike, until next weekend.

Are you saying I should take a whole week off the bike?

 

[golgiaparatus]

Here is my schedule. Keep in mind that I don't go out and pound my guts out. There are very intense moments in my ride, followed by easy spinning. My average heart rate typically falls just below my lactate balance point.

Tuesday - off
Wednesday - off
Thursday - off
Friday - 5 hours
Saturday - 6 hours
Sunday - 6 hours
Monday - 4 hours

I like the idea of having your recovery rides close together like you have there. I think I'll try something like that. I had been spacing mine out more.

 

[ire]

I like the idea of having your recovery rides close together like you have there. I think I'll try something like that. I had been spacing mine out more.

lol...that's my schedule every week. I don't have recovery rides per say. I have a planned schedule and then I recover on my days off through stretching, diet, sleep.

 

[Heisenberg]

When I said off I meant I didn't touch the bike for 2 days. Today I'm going to hit the trails with the SS and just ride... no pushing it, no hard climbs, etc. It'll be a recovery ride basically. Tomorrow will be the same, and the next day I'll take off. Was going to continue the 2 days active recovery followed by 1 day off the bike, until next weekend.

Are you saying I should take a whole week off the bike?

MTBing isn't rest. When I say "easy spin", I mean riding at granny pace to the coffee shop and back...mostly so bikes don't become foreign...but the easy spin part isn't even necessary. Put your legs up. Do nothing. Become a cat.

 

[Biter]

I agree with the week off. Rebuild all your bikes, go on a vacation, do something to keep you off the bike. You WILL come back stronger.

Absolutely, in my experience, you can't keep trying to push yourself to higher fitness through just exercise. YOU NEED to follow the ebb and flow of pushing very hard (and getting slower temporarily from fatigue) and resting very easy (and getting faster temporarily from the rebuilt, and rested muscle/cardio system). It's definitely counter intuitive, but you have to trust it. Don't be afraid to lose fitness, it has to come down a bit if you want to push it higher imo.

 

[sanjuro]

Do you have a training plan? I mean a several week cycle?

If push every ride like your own personal race and do exactly the same thing every week, you will burn out (which you are now).

I believe a 7 week cycle works well for a lot of amateur racers, even now in mid-season. Let's say this is your rest week: 1-2 one hour easy rides (and they have to be easy), one ride with 5 one minute sprints, then your Sunday race/ride (but keep the hours under 2).

Next week do 1-2 easy rides, 1 midweek hard ride but keep under 90 minutes including warmup time, and the Sunday race/ride.

Increase your intensity and length each week, and by week 7, you can do 2 hard and 1 easy rides midweek, then 2 weekend race/rides. But then the cycle is over and you take an easy week immediately afterwards.

No one can train at the highest level and repeat it over and over. You build intensity and then you rest.

 

[SuspectDevice]

Disclaimer-
1. Overtraining ended my career.
2. I spent a few years doing formal scientific research on it.
3. I used to get paid occasionally to make sure people don't overtrain(That's a coaches #1 job).

Right now I'd classify you as "overreaching" not overtraining.

All the info an athlete needs to know about preventing chronic overtraining:
1. Take a rest week every 4 weeks.

2. Take at least one rest day and two active-recovery rides every week.

4. Hiking, paddling, walking around in the woods, etc give you a much needed neurological break from cycling, increase blood flow to improve recovery and flexibility and have been proven to reduce stress hormone blood levels in elite endurance athletes 12-30 hours post excercise.

3. Turn around and go home when you can't complete an interval at full intensity.

4. Don't try to loose weight unless you have precise control over your caloric intake and work load.

Key take home message- recovery makes you stronger- training makes you weaker.

Overtraining is a neuromuscular, neurological, metabolic and psychological problem. The psychological symptoms (cranky, tired, indifferent) show up about a week and a half before the performance incompetence.
The electrical issues are the #1 thing that **** you up too.
All of the stress in your life, not just the training stress is important and adds up to complete the picture too.

Don't ride too much, don't ride too hard and always have fun.

Once you have one bout of overtraining it is easier to have a second.

The central nervous "fatigue" you engender never completely goes away. It's like dislocating a shoulder or falling off the wagon.
We still don't know very much about the specfic etiology(cause/mechanism) of overtraining- it's so complicated that to truly understand it would require lots of invasive testing during exercise and a Big-Brother style living situation.
You'd have to induce overtraining with a consistent stimulus too. Sounds ****ty.

You sound like you're doing just fine. Start riding hard again when you can smell the air. You'll know what I'm talking about when it happens.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Honestly, thanks to everyone for all the help and advice.

Since last Wednesday I've had 3 days completely off 1 day totally easy on the bike (1hr), and another day half easy half fast (30 min slow, 30 min fast, but not pushing it).

Mentally I feel totally back to my old self. Legs feel great. Cardio seems okay but I'm trying not to push at all until the end of the week, I'll know how the cardio has reacted to the time off next Wednesday during the large group race pace ride.

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Figured I'd report how the recovery went to all guys and gals that gave me advice.

So I did a full week of recovery, and have had 1 full training week since. The recovery was quite pleasant. Really enjoyed just cruising along at or below zone 1 for several days.

The first 2-3 days back training felt pretty sh!tty to be honest. Slowly got better after about 3 days though. Monday was the first day that I felt it all coming back... but last night I felt very strong... was on the local fast group ride, I was able to hang with people that typically would drop me.

So thanks again everyone.

 

[ire]

Figured I'd report how the recovery went to all guys and gals that gave me advice.

So I did a full week of recovery, and have had 1 full training week since. The recovery was quite pleasant. Really enjoyed just cruising along at or below zone 1 for several days.

The first 2-3 days back training felt pretty sh!tty to be honest. Slowly got better after about 3 days though. Monday was the first day that I felt it all coming back... but last night I felt very strong... was on the local fast group ride, I was able to hang with people that typically would drop me.

So thanks again everyone.

That sh!tty feeling is pretty typical after recovery. We always call it getting the cobwebs out of the legs. It seems like the 1st hour of the 1st ride back is the absolute worst. Glad to hear it worked out for ya!

 

[Westy]

I've always felt amazing after a week or two of recovery during hard riding season. I don't think it has anything to do with fitness. After some time off it seems that either I am more capable of producing, or more sensitive to endorphins. That first ride back I feel no pain and can push myself to points normally impossible.

 

[golgiaparatus]

I've always felt amazing after a week or two of recovery during hard riding season. I don't think it has anything to do with fitness. After some time off it seems that either I am more capable of producing, or more sensitive to endorphins. That first ride back I feel no pain and can push myself to points normally impossible.

Probably everyone is different. But I haven't felt "amazing" until last night, which is the night after my first really tough ride... and 4 days since recovery week ended.

Was on a recovery ride last night, but I decided to crush it for 5 min on a flat section, just to see how the legs would respond. Felt amazing, like I could have held pace for an hour.

2 more weeks till last of the spring series races. Really hope I feel this good when it rolls around. I'll go into the fall series within striking distance of the Champ jersey. I figure I might as well go for broke... I'm already being forced to cat up next season. Not looking forward to that... will need to REALLY come up with a training plan then

 

[SuspectDevice]

The proper way to open up after a recovery week:
Take Monday easy
Do a light sprint workout on Tuesday, small set of tempo intervals on Wednesday.
Feel good Thursday.

Sounds like you are on the right track!
_M

 

[golgiaparatus]

The proper way to open up after a recovery week:
Take Monday easy
Do a light sprint workout on Tuesday, small set of tempo intervals on Wednesday.
Feel good Thursday.

Sounds like you are on the right track!
_M

Yeah, you just described my week pretty well.