Recruiting at high schools debated
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
- Start date
The day after I got my PSAT results the recruiters were calling and calling. The Marine recruiter made personal visits and would force his way into the house, my father had to threaten him to get him to leave at one point. I can only image how much more aggressive the recruiters are getting these days.
Wow - the writer of that article didn't really bother to research the claim:
"High schools are struggling with a similar issue as the No Child Left Behind Act requires that schools receiving federal funding must release the names of its students to recruiters."
This is not the case - they must ask parent permission to release student information to recruiters. If the parents say no, then the students' information is properly protected - there are of course consequences, like the student is not in the student directory or yearbook, but parents do have a say.
"High schools are struggling with a similar issue as the No Child Left Behind Act requires that schools receiving federal funding must release the names of its students to recruiters."
This is not the case - they must ask parent permission to release student information to recruiters. If the parents say no, then the students' information is properly protected - there are of course consequences, like the student is not in the student directory or yearbook, but parents do have a say.
Indeed, the resolution by Garfield's PTSA is more symbol than policy, for Seattle, like virtually all school districts, requires high schools to give recruiters access to students - or risk losing federal funding under Section 9528 of the act. School districts also are required to notify parents and students that they may "opt out" by signing a letter preventing recruiters from getting their names.
In response to Garfield's resolution, Seattle's district issued a statement reinforcing its policy of allowing recruiters to work on high school campuses, but also said it would increase efforts next fall to make it easier for parents and students to opt out.
Ahhh - buried toward the end of the article...some semblance of accuracy.
It's fun to watch districts who have access to the materials we provide, still stumble and not provide the right forms to parents each year.
In response to Garfield's resolution, Seattle's district issued a statement reinforcing its policy of allowing recruiters to work on high school campuses, but also said it would increase efforts next fall to make it easier for parents and students to opt out.
Ahhh - buried toward the end of the article...some semblance of accuracy.
It's fun to watch districts who have access to the materials we provide, still stumble and not provide the right forms to parents each year.
What happend to you should be reported to the recuiting command.Westy said:
However, I am interested to know.....Have you been contacted by any Universities?
Damn True said:
this was 14 or so years ago. My father had 25 years in the A.F. so after he threatened the Marine recruiter with a few phone calls he left.
I didn't exactly get calls from University but I managed to get $14K a year out of the one I went to.
Latest scam I heard of is recruiters telling kids that it is illegal to miss an appointment with a recruiter.
Westy said:
Scam??? Come on... we vets all know recruiters NEVER lie.
Well someone had to mop the floor. And your country thanks you for it.N8 said:
My attitudes have changed since we last discussed military service. (I was having a bad day too). What do you think I am? Some kind of drone?MikeD said:Wow, how low did you score???
(edit: now Ciaran's gonna get on my ass, eh?I'm such a hypocrite.)
I took the ASVAB and almost joined once. (Yes, I'm a hypocrite too!) Those recruiters were bugging me for months! (Though I never took the PSAT or the SAT). They were promising me all kinds of stuff... "Oh with these scores you can write your own ticket!" And stuff like that. They got really upset when I asked for these promises in writing. The point where I realized that it was not for me was after we took the test and we were waiting for the recruiter to take us home. They were yelling at people, being really mean (yes, I know... wah, wah, wah!). Calling guys idiots and stupid. The military dudes had zero patience for anyone, even when some poor schmuck asked where the bathroom was. And lawd almighty, you should have heard it when some poor guy put his feet on the table because he didn't see the sign that said "Do not put your feet on the table"! "Hey moron! Yeah, YOU! Can't you read idiot!" I thought to myself, "Self, we need to get out of here. This is not the right place for us!".
I figured that with my problem with authority, and my bad attitude (I was 18! Give me some slack!) that I would not be a good fit for the military. So I decided to decline and not sign that paper. The recruiters got mad at me saying they invested time in me, and such. I felt a bit guilty but figured that guilt was preferable to military punishment for mouthing off at a drill instructor.
Personally I don't see an issue with the military talking to graduating seniors, but I think that they should tell the truth and not be so aggressive. Give the kid a chance to think and decide before they sign a multi year committment that could potentially land them in a combat zone.
It's funny; coming through the officer pipeline, there wasn't ever the pressure you get to enlist. Supply and demand were reversed; got more people than they need/want for the slots available, so the pressure is not "shut up and get in line or bad things will happen to you" and intimidation into serving; "it's shut up and get in line and be ultra-competitive or we'll drop your ass and send you home before you can begin to cry about it." And you DON'T want to get sent home, whereas half the recruits at boot camp would give a limb or genital organ to get the hell out of there.
Yeah, never much liked dealing with recruiters myself. They want warm bodies on the bus, and you can't imagine the pressure THEY are under to "meet their mission." (Ie, supply the right number of warm bodies on said bus.) Their careers, and the careers of their bosses, 100% depend on it. Screwed up system, but I guess in a Realpolitik world, the service goes with what works. You've gotta at least be in awe of the quick-thinking, sleight of hand, and acting/posturing that goes into it.
The other odd thing is that LIFE in the military is soooo different from recruiting/boot camp training, but most people's view of the military (from the inside as well as from without) is shaped by a view of these initial (and important) but brief experiences.
Yeah, never much liked dealing with recruiters myself. They want warm bodies on the bus, and you can't imagine the pressure THEY are under to "meet their mission." (Ie, supply the right number of warm bodies on said bus.) Their careers, and the careers of their bosses, 100% depend on it. Screwed up system, but I guess in a Realpolitik world, the service goes with what works. You've gotta at least be in awe of the quick-thinking, sleight of hand, and acting/posturing that goes into it.
The other odd thing is that LIFE in the military is soooo different from recruiting/boot camp training, but most people's view of the military (from the inside as well as from without) is shaped by a view of these initial (and important) but brief experiences.
my recruiter hit on my wife (then fiance') while i was deployed overseas. he found out that we were having a rough spot and decided to try and move in. my wife was so disgusted that she went up his chain of command and got him out of that particular recruiting office. i didn't find out about what she did until last year when i was asking, "so whatever happened to my recruiter, SSGT #####?"
a common Marine Corps saying:
"Trust me with your money and your life, but never ever with your wife"
a common Marine Corps saying:
"Trust me with your money and your life, but never ever with your wife"
The Marines call my house approximately every 6 hours every day.
This annoys me. Which recruiting center should I blow up to make them stop?
This annoys me. Which recruiting center should I blow up to make them stop?
Tell the recruiter (assuming he is male) that you'll meet with him if he sucks your dick and you can take some polaroids. That should get rid of him.blue said:
(Advice not valid if your recruiter is Jeff Gannon, of course...)
blue said:
Just be a man and sign up, you won't ever regret it.
I don't need the Marines to make me a man...thanks.N8 said:
Nor do I need them to pay for my edgimication. WHY ARE THEY CALLING ME!?
I tried telling the recruiter to leave me the **** alone the other day. In those exact words. Instead, he told me to think it over and he'd call back later and promptly hung up before I could say anything more.
I think I'm taking those homoerotic suggestions into consideration. Very yes. Bastardass military.
They come to my school with a rockwall and pizza.
"You want some pizza and to climb this rock wall?"
"Sure"
"Come over here and sign your life away and then you're good to go"
"what did you say?"
"Um.........come over here and sign these......Waivers....."
"You want some pizza and to climb this rock wall?"
"Sure"
"Come over here and sign your life away and then you're good to go"
"what did you say?"
"Um.........come over here and sign these......Waivers....."
BWAHAHA! Classic!chicodude01 said:
The Army/Marines must really suck since they're so incredibly desperate for recruits...if it was as wonderful as they claim it is they'd be turning away people.
If in a situation where I needed to, I'd consider joining the Navy/Coast Guard/Air Force...I almost applied to Air Force Academy. That could've been fun.
Where no means yes.blue said:
So desperate, they'll try to recruit a 30 year old pregnant woman...blue said:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120061
Probably after the fetus...pixelninja said:
My recruiter got busted for buying alcohol for all his new enlistees. He'd offer 17 year old kids beer and they'd sign up. I hate that guy.
That is classic!BurlyShirley said:
D
d-sop
Guest
marines called me on my bday. crazy. haha i dont have to worry about bein recruited at high skool wen im 18 cuz im graduating wen im 19.
Marines called for my brother when I was on break from Fine Art School.
I went to their office and decided that the marines were not for me when the recruiter had fake limbs sitting on his desk.
So, I walked around the corner and signed my life away to the AF.
I went to their office and decided that the marines were not for me when the recruiter had fake limbs sitting on his desk.
So, I walked around the corner and signed my life away to the AF.
uh.....no kiddingMudGrrl said:
finer arts and a life in the corps don't mix. i was had a vocal performance scholarship out of high school....then i joined the marines out of boredom (best mistake i ever made 
).....i don't sing much anymore If your spelling is any indication, they should have kept you a few more years.d-sop said:
Manimal, you should start singing again. You could be the Pavarotti of law enforcement... you could sing them their miranda rights, opera style. Wear a black cape over your uniform...
Numbers are down because a lot of people are losing faith in this war(I never had any).
These guys are so despirate that because I have an aircraft mechanics certification they got my info from the FAA. I'm 33 and have a job working on aircraft already for christ sake. So you want to send me to Iraq because you are short handed, and take a huge pay cut? Yeah sign me up.
These guys are so despirate that because I have an aircraft mechanics certification they got my info from the FAA. I'm 33 and have a job working on aircraft already for christ sake. So you want to send me to Iraq because you are short handed, and take a huge pay cut? Yeah sign me up.
What, you don't want to serve your country by killing some Iraqis? They knocked down the towers? Remember 9/11!!!dhtahoe said:
Geez, I bet you don't even have an American flag stuck anwhere on your car
No because it think they let it happen. I work in aviation. I can say first hand that this whole increased security at airports is a joke. Big airports it's a joke... small airports it doesn't exsist. My airport ID is a joke... no picture, no magnetic strip. When I renewed it last month I did it over the internet and only provided them with my SSN. That ID gets me onto any tarmac in the U.S.
BTW, what the media isn't telling you is this:
The Army enlistment numbers are 25% under goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
The Marines enlistment numbers are 2% under goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
The Navys enlistment numbers are 15% above goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
The Air Force's enlistment numbers are 20% above goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
The Coast Guard's enlistment numbers are 20% above goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
Why have they ommited this info?
Because the positive side of the story does not serve their agenda.
IMO as long as colleges, universities and trade schools are allowed to recruit at High Schools, and as long as companies are allowed to recruit from at colleges univierities and trade schools the military should be allowed as well. It's a job just like any other.
That said, badgering people at home after they have denied interest is totally uncool.
The Army enlistment numbers are 25% under goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
The Marines enlistment numbers are 2% under goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
The Navys enlistment numbers are 15% above goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
The Air Force's enlistment numbers are 20% above goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
The Coast Guard's enlistment numbers are 20% above goal for the 1st 1/2 of 2005.
Why have they ommited this info?
Because the positive side of the story does not serve their agenda.
IMO as long as colleges, universities and trade schools are allowed to recruit at High Schools, and as long as companies are allowed to recruit from at colleges univierities and trade schools the military should be allowed as well. It's a job just like any other.
That said, badgering people at home after they have denied interest is totally uncool.
Goddamn, man, it's horrendous watching every and anyone blame the 'media' for EVERYTHING.Damn True said:
You know what's potentially happening? All those recruits the Army has lost are signing up for military service with someone they perceive as less likely to send them into ground combat. The Marines are tiny, incredible at recruiting (witness the lengths they go to by the stories here) and those looking to join are probably looking to go to ground combat, so their recruiting hasn't suffered TOO much...yet.
The Army is losing people to the Chair Force, Navy, and the Coasties, that's my interp of this whole thing. Although the total amount of recruits may be up, the lukewarm patriotism most are feeling these days amounts to, "Yeah, I'll join the military, as long as I don't have to tote a rifle." The Pat Tilmans have all done their thing already. And while it's nice that some services see an upward turn in recruits, it's the Army where warm bodies are needed and will continue to be needed for years to come.
I don't think you can say 'it's a job like any other.' It's not. Never has been.
And the country has lost its fervor for war, in my opinion, now that they've seen the beginnings of it being something other than a neato phenomenon on TV with cool James Earl Jones voiceovers for CNN. And that we need people do do it, not just smart bombs. And that it's really going to actually impact their day-to-day lives as the government spends their money to prosecute the war. But now we're stuck with the consequences, and might actually have to make *real* sacrifices towards the ends we've striven for.
MD
The only thing I'm blaming the media for is not reporting the portions of the story that do not serve their agenda.
Your points are absolutely spot on. If the media were to expound on those it would actually provide something compelling and informative for viewers. However, that is not their intent. They report that which serves their agenda first, and then go after things that are salacious and will grab ratings second.
Your points are absolutely spot on. If the media were to expound on those it would actually provide something compelling and informative for viewers. However, that is not their intent. They report that which serves their agenda first, and then go after things that are salacious and will grab ratings second.
You're still hiding behind the idea of a 'liberal media' which has an 'agenda' to prosecute. In this case, the important story is that there are huge and time-critical shortfalls with the Army, regardless of what the other services are going through, so I don't see it as a liberal conspiracy, just an attempt-as you say-to put something salable out there to the short-attention span public.Damn True said:
And liberals blame the media for not being critical enough in its views of the world. Everyone's angry when media doesn't push their particular agenda.
Totally agree that the media in general puts out watered-down pablum. It does lack in critique, commentary, and investigation. But that's the result of the free-market system and consumer culture which has made McDonald's the most successful food on the planet. It's a just a product; it's McNews.
MD
The problem is that most people only get their news from the major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, FOX) when those outlets only provide portions of the stories they leave their audience uneducated as to what's really going on. This allows the more editorial versions of the news to use these 1/2 truths to shape public opinion.
I guess the take away is that the days of Edward R. Murrow are gone. I hope that someday the public demands a return to that era of reporting in which the media reported rather than sought to entertain and influence.
I guess the take away is that the days of Edward R. Murrow are gone. I hope that someday the public demands a return to that era of reporting in which the media reported rather than sought to entertain and influence.
Again, though, if it's some liberal-elite conspiracy shaping public opinion, why did the nation give George Bush his 'mandate?' The media isn't as liberal as most would make it out to be.Damn True said:
As to what's "really" going on...well, we know that we'll never know what's "really" going on. We do tend to choose news sources that reinforce our own worldviews, after all.
Since the media evolved to its current state as a response to market forces...telling people what they want to hear and giving them info-tainment...I don't see that happening anytime soon.Damn True said:
I listen to a lot of NPR these days. And there are great sources of news out there for those that want them. Christian Science Monitor is fantastic (and hey, I can read it even though it says "christian" at the top! Wow!) as is the Economist for a weekly.
I do like Meet the Press for a mainstream media show. Tim Russert is factually meticulous and fairly demanding of all comers.
If you don't care enough to look for real news, then real news will be lost on you anyhow, I suppose.
-MD
Totally agree with your points.
I don't think it's simply a liberal conspiracy. That oversimplifies the matter. Fox is just as guilty of attempting to shape opinion as CNN and the rest IMO.
I too do my best to seek out information from a number of sources.
I don't think it's simply a liberal conspiracy. That oversimplifies the matter. Fox is just as guilty of attempting to shape opinion as CNN and the rest IMO.
I too do my best to seek out information from a number of sources.