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'Religious' Idiots

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by Changleen, Sep 26, 2005.

  1. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    So take a look at this:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/26/education/26evolution.html?oref=login

    1st thing: This woman Hied infuriates me with her ignorant stupidity. I choose that phrase carefully. She represents the dictionary definition of both ignorance and stupidity.
    Damn! The moment she made that statement, any normal person should have slapped her and tossed her out on the street. I've heard some retarded **** but that really takes the biscuit. ****, how can anyone just stand there and listen to her say that, and just be like 'Uh huh, OK.'? The reporter in this case is as responsible as the next jerk who at some point in the last year hasn't put this dumb bitch straight.

    2nd: I hope this is Scopes II but I gotta doubt it. Just the fact that someone can hold an opinion this retarded as this and not be aware of their own tangential relationship with reality is a scary place to start from.

    Damn, America - We need to start testing people before they're allowed to participate in society. This person's vote carries the same weight as yours. The system is surely broken!
     

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  2. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

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    So essentially a person's value is based on their intellegence??
     
  3. Toshi

    Toshi Harbinger of Doom

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  4. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    Psst... intellIgence...


    Oh, and that guy's analogy with gravity/rubber bands is bollox. No one is trying to deny that live exists, they're talking about its origins. Therefore his analogy does not reflect the argument correctly.
     
  5. Reactor

    Reactor Turbo Monkey

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    MSNBC just did a article about intelligent design, and it really doesn't pass muster. It's the anti-science.

    The whole premise it's based on is false. The basic idea is that it such an unimaginable series events for life to occur that it can't possibly be an unplanned occurance. It's like saying it took an unimaginable series of events, that I don't understand, for a rock to be in exactly the right place to cause me to crash, it must be an act of god.

    The problem with the "irreducibly complexity" argument is that you start with a result, the world as we know it, and since you can't completely explain it, you give up and attribute it to an outside force, AKA god. This is a problem because in a nearly infinite universe, no matter how unlikely a combination of factors it takes to produce a result you are likely to find at least one place where it exists.


    Why ID isn't science

    msnbc article about case
     
  6. Silver

    Silver find me a tampon

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    Actually, that's not true. E.O. Wilson identifies himself as leaning toward Deism.

    Now, keep in mind, that isn't what intelligent design proponents want, so that won't make them happy. A good chunk of them are biblical literalists, so it has to be God in six days, even if they won't say it out loud to you.
     
  7. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    Of course I meant life, not live. How is what you're saying related to what I said?
     
  8. Silver

    Silver find me a tampon

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    Evolutionary theory has nothing to say on the origin of life. Remember what Darwin's book was called?

    Now, granted, it does lead a lot of people to the conclusion that since life doesn't need an omnipresent God hanging around to direct everything, you shouldn't assume one, I'll grant you that.

    Look, the courts said that you can't teach creationism because it was an explicitly religious doctrine. So, you put a little lipstick on the pig, promise (cross your heart and hope to die) to not mention GOD, and voila, you have Intelligent Design.
     
  9. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    Darwin never proposed the theory of evolution to account for the origins of living beings, only the process of change once life exists. I've always been facinated why Darwin catches so much hell about that. Though he did theorize that life may very well have been born in a "warm little puddle".

    The theories or better yet hypothesises (sp?) of the origins of life have be considered much more controversial. Well at least to me.
     
  10. kinghami3

    kinghami3 Future Turbo Monkey

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    No, it's based on how much money they have, everyone knows that.


    The problem is that people just don't know that much about Darwin's theories, science, or even the Bible. They say things like that because their pastor tells them so; it's not actually her own decision. When the Bible has two different accounts of creation in addition to massive biological and genealogical inconsistencies, it should at least make some people wonder, but it doesn't. Kind of the same reason I need to read my Bible more than once a month; I have a working knowledge of scripture but I can't point anything out off the top of my head.
     
  11. Silver

    Silver find me a tampon

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    Bingo.

    I think he caught so much hell over it because it made a personal God unneeded. Still catching hell over it, I guess.
     
  12. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

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    What I wonder is that if life on earth is so complex that it couldn't have formed without some sort of a "creator", then who created the creator?

    Surely if a system is so complex that random creation is impossible, then the creator of that system would they themselves be so complex that they would also need a creator. (and so on and so forth...)
     
  13. Silver

    Silver find me a tampon

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down
     
  14. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    To society? Yes. Combined of course with their willingness to use it constructively and progressively.
     
  15. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    OK, I'll admit I'm not the most au fait with ID theory (for the very reasons you mention), but surely intelligent design implies an intelligent designer whether you call him God or Eric or whatever.

    So if ID does not define a designer and does not deny natural selection what is everyone getting their knickers in a twist about?

    Furthermore it does involve the origins of life if there is anything to argue about at all, be it the origin of all life or the origin of some life.

    This is pretty much semantics.
     
  16. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    What involves the origin of life? ID or Evolution? Or something else I missed.

    Natural selection isn't really natural selection if there is a man behind the current. The text of the article spells it out

     
  17. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    Both, the raging debate about ID versus evolution, and this thread.

    It all started when I pointed what a poor analogy was contained in the article quoted in the first post. I think perhaps people are thinking I am arguing for ID; I'm not.
     
  18. F5000sl

    F5000sl Chimp

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    yeah, and then there are the freaks of life.

    Seriously folks, what is wrong with people these days?
    Some people are so out there, so freak'n crazy, they have to know it.

    Today at VCU, we were treated to a freak of nature donning a sign that was about 6'x4' and read, "Obey Jesus or Perish".
    WTF??? What religion is that? Is this the same Jesus that forgives when asked?

    The person holding the sign was lets say, late teens early 20's and she (YES She) shouted at folks as they walked by her sign's slogan.
    Being ignored, she reverted to yelling at people, telling everyone that everyone that we know, our parents, brothers, sister, uncle & aunts, our teachers & the world in general is lying to us. They are holding back the truth and she was here to set us straight. "Believe what I say, learn to think for yourself" she added. Yeah, think about that one. "They are all liars!"
    She went on chanting this crap for about 3 hrs, on my way to my last class, she had pissed off enough folks that people were getting angry, some people started to offer up $$ to steal her sign. The first offer started at $10.00, and within 30 seconds was @ $30.00, I had crossed the street by then and have no idea how it ended.
    Upon getting out of class, she was just a memory & folks had someone to talk about as they giggled.

    What produces these types of people? What goes so wrong in ones life that they turn so freaky
     
  19. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

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    I prefer not to place an arbitrary value on a person based on what they can and cannot do............I think someone else did that as well..............let me think............ :rolleyes:
     
  20. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

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    It’s not true Christianity that’s for sure. These are the kind of people I would love to meet on the street and get into a theological “kung fu” fight with.

    That chick needs to reread her Bible, it clearly states even those who don’t know God sometimes do and say things that are true according to God.

    It’s pretty clear these kinds of folks are just regurgitating stuff they hear from their pastor/cult minder and have not actually explored the Scriptures enough to actually have a grasp of what the Gospel meant in Jesus day and what it means today, let alone all the garbage they spew.

    The sad thing is how many people did she turn off to her cause because of her delivery? Jesus never presents the Gospel as “you don’t’ want to go to Hell do you?”, never not once does He frame it in that kind of language. Interestingly the only people who Jesus really got riled up at where the religious leaders of the time who treated Judaism like a holy country club for exclusive members…………..sound familiar???

    What hacks me off about people like this, is that I get painted with the same brush as this chick. People on here find out I’m a follower of Jesus and the knee jerk reaction is I must be like those people on the street corner with a bullhorn screaming “repent the Kingdom of God is near”. Some of us really and truly take what Jesus said seriously, we really try everyday to love people unconditionally, no strings attached, we really strive to make the world a better place through loving and serving others………….but people like this tend to shape the perception that following Jesus is about hate, judgment and fear instead of love and hope.

    The same root of fundamentalism that encourages people to run into a crowded café and blow themselves up, or run into an abortion clinic and start shooting people. I seem to remember Jesus not advocating violence……….
     
  21. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

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    The problem is that ID is nothing but a Trojan Horse to get christianity into public schools and blur the line between itself and science.

    While I would have no problem if they discussed religion in say Social Studies class, or even Christianity's (SP?) effects on the world in a History class. But it should never be confused with science.
     
  22. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    Look, all I did was point out a crap analogy. That's all...

    Stop treating me like I want to talk about ID, I don't. I think it's a bunch of carp.
     
  23. ChrisRobin

    ChrisRobin Turbo Monkey

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    You should of told her that Satan is really the one who created man and demons were going to eat her parents. :devil:
     
  24. BuddhaRoadkill

    BuddhaRoadkill I suck at Tool

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    DAMN!!! Andyman goes in for the kill. Checkmate even. :eek:
     
  25. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

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    Too late suckah! :cool:
     
  26. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

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    :sneaky:
     
  27. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    I'm not talking about placing a value on someone. I'm talking about potential. Clearly a genius has the potential to contribute far more to society than someone like your president, provided his energies are focussed in the right way. The flipside to that is someone who uses his intelligence in a negative way, such as creating ways to manipulate people. I'm not saying dumb people are worthless, far from it. A retard with good intentions is clearly more use to society than an intelligent but self serving person such as Robert Mugabe.
     
  28. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    :drool:
     
  29. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

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    no one is denying that gravity exists either. the analogy talked about how it worked.
     
  30. Ciaran

    Ciaran Fear my banana

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    That's one I would love to stand by and watch. Can I be your corner man? Maybe help with a little Mr. Miyagi... Concentrate, focus power... balance in whoooole life Andy-san... :D
     
  31. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

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    wait...
    while i consider you quite an educated man in jesus ways...

    who defines what is "christianity" or "good christianity" from within??? i mean, you could argue on rational grounds thru direct interpretation an interpolation on the bible.. yet the other side might be able to do so.
    and even if they dont, the whole rationalism is kinda invalid, if you are starting from a premise that cannot be logically validated.

    so, if both positions start from non-rational start points... how do we define which one of them is "rationally" following or representing the 1st irrational thought??
    wouldnt, in their logical invalidity, both be non-rational, thus neither one the "right" nor the "wrong" one in an strict rational sense???
     
  32. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

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    that'd be Kimbo Slice VS Gannon the Cannon...
     
  33. enkidu

    enkidu Guest

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    Yup, Christ obviously wanted his disciples to be one as he and the Father were one (John 17:22), and knew that in the face of our tendency to be divisive we needed a leader (Peter, "the Rock": Matt 16:13-19), bishops and deacons (1 Timothy 3) and a church ("household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Timothy, 3:15). Already in Acts we see Peter speaking and acting as the leader of the apostles and disciples. St. Irenaeus (2nd Century) of the early church fathers mentions how "apostles left bishops as their successors and gave them their own position of teaching authority".

    So Anglicans, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox Churches stress this "laying of hands" of bishops to assure the orthodoxy of their teachings. And that's how they try to discern what are authentic Christian teachings.
     
  34. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    Authentic Harry Potter Broomsticks?
     
  35. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    You shure??

    Quote...

    'Is there gravity, or do you think we have rubber bands on our feet?' "

    There's a nasty little 'or' in there... :)
     
  36. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    So an arbitrary value based on a person's potential??? Ok...
     
  37. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    Did you read what I said? :drool:
     
  38. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    Yeah. Did you?

    You first say America has to test people before letting them participate in society. You then replied to Andy's question about value by intelligence with an affirmative answer. Then when compared to a nasty dictator you wriggled and gave some self-contradictory guff moving your valuometer onto that so easily measured object of potential (rather than intelligence).

    You're been caught on Andy's line and you're wriggling.

    :eviltongu
     
  39. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

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    If you want to simplify what I said to suit your slant of what I said, suit your self. Believe yor 'summary' or read what I actually said. It's not that complex. If you disagree, list me some well-known idiots who have made positive contributions to humanity and I'll list ten times the number of well-known highly intelligent people who have done more. You know it's true.
     
  40. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

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    Ha! I am not disagreeing that people's contribution to the greater good varies. And some of what you said is true, and perhaps if it were possible to know the full effect of each and every person's ultimate effect on society (and indeed of the lack of their presence) there could be an argument for removing them (though we both know that concept is impossible).

    However you cannot deny that have initially proposed measuring people's intelligence then their potential and valuing them accordingly.

    Wriggle or spin, it's there in black and white and throwing accusations at me doesn't change it.