Quantcast

religiousness to the point of ingnorance?

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by lovebunny, Oct 25, 2005.

  1. lovebunny

    lovebunny can i lick your balls?

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 31
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2003
    Messages:
    7,237
    Location:
    San Diego, California, United States
    i was talking to my gf last night about the situation in the middle east and islam. it started out when i saw a book her mom had. anyways. she was telling me about how all islam teaches is hate and to kill your neighbors and that kind of stuff. and every time i would counter her with a perfectly viable arguement she would be like "what? i dont get where your going with this" and she brought up numerous times how islam doesnt hold to christian beliefs. she just wouldnt listen to anything that said her religion could possibly be wrong and she even called them cavemen. it really woke me up to how ignorant she is because of her religion. she was raised as a christian and has allways been a christian. i dont understand how she can be so closeminded about others beliefs and not understand how people can question her beliefs.
     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. stevew

    stevew unique white person

    Rep/Likes:
    250 / 2,393
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    31,345
    Ask her if it is Christian slipping other girls the tongue?

    Or is that Baptist?

    If she changes, fine. If not, move on.
     
  3. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 4
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    9,890
    Location:
    Hypernormality
    Hmm, personally, even if she's uberhot, that type of ignorance is unacceptable. Make her read about it somehow, and if she refuses, goodbye. Seriously, if she is that blinkered about a fairly major geopolitical debate, what is she going to be like in the future about other things? Get your blowjobs and go.
     
  4. reflux

    reflux Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 2
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    4,622
    Location:
    G14 Classified
    I get the impression she is closed-minded in general, regardless of her belief system. I gather you went about explaining your position several different ways, but until she starts to understand where you're going with this, do not attack her religion, she'll only close you off.
     
  5. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,407
    Location:
    New England
    Shouldn't it be 'Ignorance to the point of religiousness '?

    :monkey:
     
  6. Changleen

    Changleen Paranoid Member

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 4
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    9,890
    Location:
    Hypernormality
    :p 2345
     
  7. pterodactyl

    pterodactyl Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    On the other side of your monitor with a baseball
    Ask her if she really thinks bazillions of people (Islams) are just mad and want to kill everyone. Does she hate all of them and want to kill them? If not I would ask why she would think they would be any different. If she is generally a good person and believes that generally most people are good and just want to live a happy life, why would religion change that?

    For the most part we are all the same, different religions, races, experiences, but we all care about the people we care about and want to live good lives...without killing other people.

    If she swallows hang on to her for a while...those are few and far between.
     
  8. sanjuro

    sanjuro Tube Smuggler

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,412
    Location:
    SF
    There is an great book, "The Crusades Through Arab Eyes". It points out many of the faults of the Crusaders and the high lights (and some low lights) of the Arabs who fought them.

    P.S. It is extremely well written and easy to read. Your g/f's mom sounds like she needs Reader Digest condenced versions.
     
  9. skatetokil

    skatetokil Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,385
    Location:
    DC/Bluemont VA
    Also, bring up the fact that islam recognizes J.C. as a really important prophet, just not the messiah. they even consider the bible a holy text. buy her a copy of the koran or something.
     
  10. MudGrrl

    MudGrrl AAAAH! Monkeys stole my math!

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Messages:
    3,123
    Location:
    Boston....outside of it....
    :dead:



    Ask her if hate is Christian.
    Ask her if fear is part of being Christian.
     
  11. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    OOOOOOOHHHHHHH good one.

    It's funny (or more like sad) how many professing Christians "forget" whole passages where Jesus says to unconditionally love your enemy. Remember for Jesus' audience this would have been the Romans, who invaded and killed Jews for sport, in the midst of this Jesus says to love these people who are killing your friends and family...........not terribly popular these days.
     
  12. MMike

    MMike A fowl peckerwood.

    Rep/Likes:
    61 / 84
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2001
    Messages:
    18,222
    Location:
    just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
    Is "religiousness" a word?
     
  13. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    Dude punctuation please………..

    Islam doesn’t hold Christian beliefs because it’s not Christian, pretty basic. From what I have researched there are portions of the Koran that indicate one is to kill those who are not Muslims, however most Muslims interpret that as not binding today.

    The fundamental problem, from the Christian point of view, is that according to the Bible all humans are created in God’s image, even Muslims. Jesus takes this a step further by saying that if we don’t respect, love, and take care of people we are in effect not “taking care of Him” – that in some way because they are created in God’s image, to be disrespectful to a human is to also be disrespectful to God (love you neighbor as yourself for example). So the next time she throws out “caveman” refer her to the end of Matthew 25 and the Gospel of Luke where Jesus tells His followers to love (the Greek word there is agape = unconditional) their enemies.

    Please understand that just because someone was raised Christian, or has always been Christian does not mean they are really a follower of Jesus – I make a huge distinction there. Also know, not all of us are ignorant and closed minded.
     
  14. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2001
    Messages:
    5,672
    Location:
    Feeling the lag
    Ouch, taken out of context that sentence doesn't look good Andy..
     
  15. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2001
    Messages:
    5,672
    Location:
    Feeling the lag
    Any fule know it's religiousity.
     
  16. MMike

    MMike A fowl peckerwood.

    Rep/Likes:
    61 / 84
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2001
    Messages:
    18,222
    Location:
    just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
    religiousopathy.....
     
  17. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    Oh......yeah the "fundamental problem" is in reference to that chicks understanding of other people, not that we are created in God's image.
     
  18. fluff

    fluff Monkey Turbo

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2001
    Messages:
    5,672
    Location:
    Feeling the lag
    It was the 'even the muslims' bit I was thinking off...
     
  19. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    Yeah that too..............

    Hopefully no one will cut and paste that as an interview and post it on FOXNEWS.com or anything.............LOL
     
  20. Silver

    Silver find me a tampon

    Rep/Likes:
    10 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,847
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Yeah, but God spends the whole Old Testament running around like a guy with a mental disorder on PCP killing enemies of Israel (and sometimes Israel itself.)

    Now, I know he finds Jesus and cleans himself up about 2/3 of the way through the book, but most people don't read that far...
     
  21. Tenchiro

    Tenchiro Attention K Mart Shoppers

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,407
    Location:
    New England
    The bible has all sorts of crazy crap in it.

     
  22. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    I guess that depends on your perspective.

    The whole point of giving the Torah was God giving His people the best way to live, He wanted the best for them. Exodus 19 & 20 are referred to by Jews as "God the Lover", He loves His people so much He wants them to live the best possible way. Which leads me back to your "yeah but" - you can thank Adam and Eve for that, but God's created all humans in His image and as Christians (which is the thrust of this thread, how a Christian views others) we are to treat others respectfully, even our enemies.

    My point was not to "prove" that stuff you poo poo in the OT is good, my point was to show that referring to someone as a "caveman" is contrary to the teachings of Jesus and the Bible as a whole.

    Except that Jesus was present from the very beginning (even before that), He was/is the one that holds the whole deal together. I would suggest that’s a very narrow and “western” reading of the Scriptures.
     
  23. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    Yeah yeah yeah..............I hope I can and regularly do prove that wrong..........
     
  24. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

    Rep/Likes:
    18 / 149
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    11,007
    Location:
    The Cleft of Venus

    What about the ol' "I 4 N I" and all that rot?
     
  25. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    That’s a passage from the Old Testament, interestingly though, rabbi’s would spend an endless amount of time trying to determine when there was a conflict in the commandments (the mitzvoth in the Hebrew) which one was “lighter” and which one was “heavier” - this process is called rabbinic Midrash if you’re looking for something to Google and kill time. Anyway, it is almost universally understood in 1st century Judaism (even today) that the most important commandment from the Torah is to love you neighbor as your self, several rabbi’s (including Jesus) teach that the whole Torah “hangs” on that one verse.

    So while that passage is in the Old Testament, records from ancient times tell us that it was rarely used due to the commandment cited above.
     
  26. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

    Rep/Likes:
    18 / 149
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    11,007
    Location:
    The Cleft of Venus


    So the New Testament supersedes the old one? Does this mean the Book of Mormon is Vol III and supersedes the New Testament then?
     
  27. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    No that wasn’t my point. Even in 1st century Judaism, the whole “eye for an eye” thing was put in it’s place as being “under” the command to love your neighbor as yourself . So it’s not that it’s a Christian idea or a New Testament idea, it’s really a Jewish idea.

    And no the NT does not supercede the OT, the NT is commentary on the OT – any idea “placed” on the NT that cannot find substantiation in the OT is IMO and research highly suspect. If I had to only pick one to read, either the New Testament or the Old Testament, I’d probably pick the Old Testament.
     
  28. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

    Rep/Likes:
    18 / 149
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    11,007
    Location:
    The Cleft of Venus

    So the Book of Moron is Vol III then?

    What's Vol IV gonna be... Chariots of the Gods?
     
  29. ohio

    ohio The Fresno Kid

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 4
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    6,640
    Location:
    SF, CA
    Dianetics, by L Ron Hubbard OBVIOUSLY!!!
     
  30. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

    Rep/Likes:
    18 / 149
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    11,007
    Location:
    The Cleft of Venus
    Tom can't be wrong!

    WWTD?
     
  31. The Amish

    The Amish Dumber than N8

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    645
    By NASSER KARIMI, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
    TEHRAN, Iran - President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declared Wednesday that Israel is a "disgraceful blot" that should be "wiped off the map" — fiery words that Washington said underscores its concern over Iran's nuclear program.

    ADVERTISEMENT

    Ahmadinejad's speech to thousands of students at a "World without Zionism" conference set a hard-line foreign policy course sharply at odds with that of his moderate predecessor, echoing the sentiments of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution.

    The United States said Ahmadinejad's remarks show that Washington's fears about Iran's nuclear program are accurate.

    "I think it reconfirms what we have been saying about the regime in Iran," White House press secretary Scott McClellan told reporters in Washington. "It underscores the concerns we have about Iran's nuclear intentions."

    Ahmadinejad also condemned Iran's neighbors which seek to break new ground in their relations with Israel. "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury," state-run television quoted him as saying.

    Relations between Israel and several Persian Gulf states have been thawing amid Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in September. Bahrain announced in September it was ending a decades-old law banning trade ties with Israel. In October, Qatar said it was donating $6 million to help build a soccer stadium for a mixed Arab-Jewish team, the first such financial assistance by an Arab state for any town inside Israel.

    Israel has been at the forefront of nations calling for an end to Iran's nuclear program, which the United States and many others in the West say is aimed at acquiring weapons of mass destruction. Iran insists the program is for generating electricity.

    Referring to Palestinian suicide bomb attacks in Israel, Ahmadinejad said: "there is no doubt that the new wave in Palestine will soon wipe off this disgraceful blot from the face of the Islamic world."

    Ahmadinejad's speech came hours before a Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up in the Israeli town of Hadera, killing five people. Iran aids several militant Palestinian groups, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad, with support and training through proxies among Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas.

    "Ahmadinejad has clearly declared the doctrine of his government," said Mohammad Sadeq Hosseini, an expert on Middle Eastern affairs. "He is returning Iran to the revolutionary goals it was pursuing in the 1980s."

    Reacting to the Iranian president's speech, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said Ahmadinejad and Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar "speak openly about destroying the Jewish state ... and it appears the problem with these extremists is that they followed through on their violent declarations with violent actions."

    Ebrahim Yazdi, a former Iranian foreign minister, said Ahmadinejad's remarks harmed Iran.

    "Such comments provoke the international community against us. It's not to Iran's interests at all. It's harmful to Iran to make such a statement," he said.

    In Madrid, Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos summoned Iran's ambassador to protest Ahmadinejad's comments. Moratinos said he rejected the remarks in the strongest possible terms.

    French Foreign Minister Jean-Baptiste Mattei also condemned the remarks "with the utmost firmness."

    Ahmadinejad became president in August after winning elections two months earlier. He replaced Mohammad Khatami, a reformist who advocated international dialogue and tried to improve relations with the West.

    Iran announced earlier this year that it had fully developed solid fuel technology for missiles, a major breakthrough that increases their accuracy. The Shahab-3, with a range of 810 miles to more than 1,200 miles, is capable of delivering a nuclear warhead to Israel and U.S. forces in the Middle East.
     
  32. Reactor

    Reactor Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 1
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,978
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ, USA

    That's a very good point. I struggle withn this all the time, there are people who are raised in a western culture, culturally christian, but have little to no understanding of the basis of their culture, or any other religion for that matter.

    And there are people are spiritually Christian, and actually try to actually live up to the actual ideals of their religion.
     
  33. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    Since the vast majority of that book cannot be substantiated in the Old Testament (not to mention the lack of archeological evidence) that would be a no…………….
     
  34. lovebunny

    lovebunny can i lick your balls?

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 31
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2003
    Messages:
    7,237
    Location:
    San Diego, California, United States
    ok wow. my first post hugly misrepresented my gf. the thing that bugged me is weve been together for a year and a half and this is the first time shes told me this kinda stuff. i just couldnt belive that she of all people would be that ignorant and naive.
     
  35. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    8 / 0
    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,334
    Location:
    Chatsworth
    I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the most religious person in world. With that being said, one thing I do know, you CANNOT debate religion with people who believe strongly in it. In your case, it sounds like your girlfriend was brought up with a strong religious influence in her life. Basically, you started to question something that her parents pushed on her, and something that she holds very near and dear to her heart. No matter how much evidence you drop in a religious person's lap, they won't change their mind...

    It's kind of like debating political views...everyone thinks theirs is right.
     
  36. Andyman_1970

    Andyman_1970 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 5
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2003
    Messages:
    3,105
    Location:
    The Natural State
    Yeah if they didn't think they were right they would believe something else..............:D
     
  37. blt2ride

    blt2ride Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    8 / 0
    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,334
    Location:
    Chatsworth
    Good point...
     
  38. BMXman

    BMXman I wish I was Canadian

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2001
    Messages:
    13,854
    Location:
    Victoria, BC

    not to question your relationship but....you've been together for a year and it's the first time it's come up...might be time to re-evaluate your realtionship...then again you're pretty young so maybe it's to be expected...well LB your girlfriend is not alone out there....IMO the bible is so full of contradictions and ambigious meaning how can anyone truly follow it?...but I digress...D